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Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?

A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?

Allies of Convenience.

It means they are not friends, but they have a common foe.

Y'know how Necrons hate the Warp and all?

I don't think there is a more modern BT Codex and that is as you say they are fanatical devotees of the God Emperor and so get on very well with the SOB

The present SM codex just says that the BT are fiercely independant and uncaring of what others think - it also reminds that the BT form their own brotherhood with their prgenitor Chapter - the Imperial Fists and the others descended from them.

The Space Wolves are just as independant but are regarded with much more suspciion by many more parties

Kanluwen wrote:

Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?

A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?

Allies of Convenience.

It means they are not friends, but they have a common foe.

Y'know how Necrons hate the Warp and all?

They're not gonna be a fan of Draigo then are they? Or an army of psykers, considering that psykers draw their power directly from the warp.

Griever wrote:I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.

Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.

I wanted my cults.

Or my Ork pit-beasts.

Or my nurgle possessed Hive Ship that got lost in the warp....

OK.......
Eldar and Templars?
I'm only going to focus on AOC that seem contradictory.

DarkStarSabre wrote:Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.

I have a feeling that loooots of clubs and gaming groups might discard this nonsensical randomness and come up with their own allies charts, or simply allow everyone to ally with anyone as long as the player can make up an explanation.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?

A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?

Allies of Convenience.

It means they are not friends, but they have a common foe.

Y'know how Necrons hate the Warp and all?

They're not gonna be a fan of Draigo then are they? Or an army of psykers, considering that psykers draw their power directly from the warp.

The "oldcrons" wouldn't have been, since they were mindless drones and one of the single most boring ideas ever.

The "newcrons" have a level of intellect where one can assume they would look past the simple fact that "They draw power from the Warp!" and appreciate the irony of using the foe's weapon against them.

Maige wrote:OK.......
Eldar and Templars?
I'm only going to focus on AOC that seem contradictory.

You know who the Eldar are, right?
And how they operate?

They manipulate events to ensure that everything converges just right for their engagements.
The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.

I think that Nids, in a lot of gaming clubs will get all other races as desperate allies.

Lynata wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.

I have a feeling that loooots of clubs and gaming groups might discard this nonsensical randomness and come up with their own allies charts, or simply allow everyone to ally with anyone as long as the player can make up an explanation.

That would seem the sensible thing to do.............

I personally think the Necrons/Grey Knights brofist came about from a misinterpretation of the exchange between Valeria and Trazyn.

Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.

The only one that would make any sense is the aforementioned IG/Genestealer Cult.

I think we'll see that reintroduced via WD eventually.

I hope!

>Kanluwen

But they are convenient allies, not desperate.
I can somewhat accept that scenario under desperation like all the others but AOC implies that they are on reasonable terms with each other.

BT should despise everything that Eldar represent.

Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.

And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Some things should simply be left unexplained. Or accepted to be what they are. Namely out-of-character.

Mr Morden wrote:

Lynata wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.

I have a feeling that loooots of clubs and gaming groups might discard this nonsensical randomness and come up with their own allies charts, or simply allow everyone to ally with anyone as long as the player can make up an explanation.

That would seem the sensible thing to do.............

Or that's why you have the label "Come the Apocalypse".

Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".

Agreed but the chart seems to be very random as has been mentioned - lets hope it will evolve / be faqed

May have been posted but Rixitotal posted his first impressions after playing a couple games in 6th:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/vn19n/first_6th_game_impressions_and_i_was_wrong_about/

Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".

Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before, meaning in normal non-Apoc games.

Are you honestly defending the randomness of these combinations?

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.

And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.

Who says they're having any contact at all?

The Eldar are quite well-known for their tactics in manipulation and subterfuge. It's entirely believable that the Eldar could use the Black Templars as a diversion while never coming into engagement range of the Templars during the fighting.

Alpharius wrote:Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.

The only one that would make any sense is the aforementioned IG/Genestealer Cult.

I think we'll see that reintroduced via WD eventually.

I hope!

We've all been hoping since 3rd edition came out. 3 editions later, still no sign. And yet the Black Library fiction still references the cults on a regular basis.

And don't forget...Rogue Trader 'nids have Mind Slave units - which let them field Orks, Eldar, SMs and IG.
In addition there's the Cult aspects....
And even suitable cases of odder alliances - Inquisitors diverting the high fleets, Dark Eldar using them as 'cover' for their own raids....

Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.

And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.

Who says they're having any contact at all?

The Eldar are quite well-known for their tactics in manipulation and subterfuge. It's entirely believable that the Eldar could use the Black Templars as a diversion while never coming into engagement range of the Templars during the fighting.

But that isn't what is being portrayed on the tabletop.

Kanluwen wrote:Who says they're having any contact at all?

The table and the way games of this magnitude are being played.

The funny thing is that it would actually make more sense in Apoc where they might actually have a chance of not seeing one another.

Maelstrom808 wrote:I personally think the Necrons/Grey Knights brofist came about from a misinterpretation of the exchange between Valeria and Trazyn.

Yeah, no doubt that was not a friendly exchange .

Add to the fact that in other blurbs in the book--she kills Trazyn (several times it would seem)---yet he still trolls her. Trazyn is the best part of the Cron book.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".

Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.

Simply put?

Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.

Are you honestly defending the randomness of these combinations?

Are you honestly unable to recognize the difference between "Allies of Convenience" and "Best Friends Forever"?



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A Town Called Malus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.

And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.

Who says they're having any contact at all?

The Eldar are quite well-known for their tactics in manipulation and subterfuge. It's entirely believable that the Eldar could use the Black Templars as a diversion while never coming into engagement range of the Templars during the fighting.

But that isn't what is being portrayed on the tabletop.

What's being portrayed on the tabletop is an abstract of actual measurements.

Unless you think, of course, that Basilisks can only fire the length of most tables.

morgendonner wrote:May have been posted but Rixitotal posted his first impressions after playing a couple games in 6th:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/vn19n/first_6th_game_impressions_and_i_was_wrong_about/

So there is "look out sir" rolls in close combat?

Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.

Wow. Rangers are good now?

So, Battle Brothers confer all the benefits? SC are good to go?
Suddenly Vulkan running around the whole galaxy and twin-linking everybody's melta weaponry?
How about non-BB and skills that affect enemies? Like RoW farseer in Ork horde or Necrons giving night fight in SW pack.
Anybody got confirmation on those two instances? (115 pages are a bit too much to dig through)

Has anyone even thought about how nids will try to fail instinctive behaviour tests in order to get rage and the rumored 2 attacks it gives?

Synapse be damned.

Before their updated it, Vulkan running with Sisters was pretty common so that's nothing new.

Dytalus wrote:

Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?

A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?

Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.

I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target

rogueeyes wrote:Has anyone even thought about how nids will try to fail instinctive behaviour tests in order to get rage and the rumored 2 attacks it gives?

Synapse be damned.

Not a single person.

Nah, just messing with you. That's been hashed and rehashed.


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morgendonner wrote:Before their updated it, Vulkan running with Sisters was pretty common so that's nothing new.

Umm. Before they updated C:WH? You couldn't take Vulkan in an C:WH army.