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Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".

Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.

Simply put?

Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.

A Genestealer infestation doesn't require them to make anyone disappear. They implant a spore into a living subject, erasing that persons memory of the event in the process. That person then goes on and later reproduces, creating a genestealer hybrid, which then later reproduces, creating more hybrids and repeat for several generations until there is a large infestation without anyone having had to go missing and not be found, slightly confused but otherwise in good health to an untrained eye.

As a lot of the population are kept in the dark about genestealers and their methods there would be a very good chance of the hybrids going undetected, unless an Inquisitor or experienced IG commander happened to be on the planet.

Griever wrote:

Thaylen wrote:So let me get this straight, not only do my tau double in firepower, now they can take hammernators in a landraider with a chaplain to compensate for my lack of close combat ability??

That sounds too good to be true, my opponents will cry.

I will cry because it's beyond stupid.

Try to make up some fluff that explains why your Tau army has a land raider full of terminators just permanently hanging out with them, running around and possible killing other space marines/loyal imperial guard, etc.

I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.

I for one am looking forward to using real Daemons in a C:SM army. I can actually make a word bearers army the semi-makes sense! And Alpha Legion as well.

BWWAHAHAHAHA! Since when does anyone bother with fluff when trying to kick your ass? Seriously? You are expecting that? ON any level? Oh...ohhh you poor, poor person.

pretre wrote:Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.

Wow. Rangers are good now?

That's nothing. Rangers were at least not-the-worst.
If intercept allows to hit Fliers on 4+ along with 2+ glance (haywire) Swooping Hawks may have a use.. I mean hawks a decent unit? How crazy is that?

Griever wrote:

I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.

I think its fairly obvious GW doesnt care about fluff, story, (balanced & sensible game rules) as long as you are buying models.


I will say Im hugely amazed they didnt allow Tyranids to ally with IG as Genestealer cults. It would have sold them a bunch more IG.

pretre wrote:Umm. Before they updated C:WH? You couldn't take Vulkan in an C:WH army.

You're right, but you could take Battle Sisters in a Vulkan army. You could take a Vulkan list and add in 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, and 0-1 Fast from Sisters. It even specifically mentions Salamanders as an army they can join.

Kanluwen wrote:Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults.

It's common enough to be considered standard modus operandi. And even if it would be just a rare occurrence it should still be sufficient to allow this combination on the table, because I daresay it'd happen a lot more often than Necrons bro-fisting Space Marines.

Kanluwen wrote:Are you honestly unable to recognize the difference between "Allies of Convenience" and "Best Friends Forever"?

Are you honestly unable to recognize the difference between "allies of convenience" and "shoot on sight"?

Kanluwen wrote:What's being portrayed on the tabletop is an abstract of actual measurements.
Unless you think, of course, that Basilisks can only fire the length of most tables.

Abstract measurements or no, you have two armies moving into the same direction, towards the same objective, shooting at the same enemies. You really want to tell me that one of them isn't going to notice? Let alone that a game of 40k relies on the player coordinating all his minis actions, which translates to the board as these two armies coordinating their movements with each other.

It's also kinda funny that you are defending Eldar + GKs by stating they just won't see each other, but at the same time seem to claim that this cop-out would be utterly unapplicable if you swap the GKs for, say, Tyranids. You're argueing yourself into a hole.

I actually have a better idea for why GKs would work together with Eldar that does not rely on such loose argumentation, but I ain't gonna tell.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".

Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.

Simply put?

Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.

A Genestealer infestation doesn't require them to make anyone disappear. They implant a spore into a living subject, erasing that persons memory of the event in the process. That person then goes on and later reproduces, creating a genestealer hybrid, which then later reproduces, creating more hybrids and repeat for several generations until there is a large infestation without anyone having had to go missing and not be found, slightly confused but otherwise in good health to an untrained eye.

As a lot of the population are kept in the dark about genestealers and their methods there would be a very good chance of the hybrids going undetected, unless an Inquisitor or experienced IG commander happened to be on the planet.

I'm aware of the process.

However, what you are neglecting is that the individuals who are "taken" do disappear. They effectively vanish for the period of gestation, as otherwise their behaviors are erratic and noticeable.

It has been detailed little, but there is a reason for it.
And also:
Hybrids at the early stages of a Genestealer infestation go undetected, down two or three generations (which is what would be required for the Genestealer infected to actually get enough of a power base to make a "Genestealer Army" feasible) they acquire more and more noticeable traits of the Genestealer parentage. At that point, however, there is enough control within societal structure that those who begin to notice something is amiss are pretty much boned.

Macok wrote:

pretre wrote:Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.

Wow. Rangers are good now?

That's nothing. Rangers were at least not-the-worst.
If intercept allows to hit Fliers on 4+ along with 2+ glance (haywire) Swooping Hawks may have a use.. I mean hawks a decent unit? How crazy is that?

My mind is blown. Warp Spiders don't suffer from AP - now. A unit of them could glance most vehicles to death and runaway pretty easy.

Codex: Eldar - "Not as bad as you think anymore"

Macok wrote:

pretre wrote:Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.

Wow. Rangers are good now?

That's nothing. Rangers were at least not-the-worst.
If intercept allows to hit Fliers on 4+ along with 2+ glance (haywire) Swooping Hawks may have a use.. I mean hawks a decent unit? How crazy is that?

Whoa, whoa. Lets not get crazy here. Next thing you'll be saying is that mandrakes aren't a total waste of space.

A question from someone that's never played Planetstrike: are the various fortifications' sizes defined in the 6E (or the PS) rulebook, or is it another case of "use the GW model or guesstimate"? After reading the game review by the Reddit Guy I really like the idea of a Bastion for my Dark Reapers (who are always looking for a good place to hide), but I will also naturally be building an Eldar-themed structure for them. I'm just not sure what sort of dimensions I should be dealing with here.

Thanks!

morgendonner wrote:

pretre wrote:Umm. Before they updated C:WH? You couldn't take Vulkan in an C:WH army.

You're right, but you could take Battle Sisters in a Vulkan army. You could take a Vulkan list and add in 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, and 0-1 Fast from Sisters. It even specifically mentions Salamanders as an army they can join.

True. Never saw it happen, but oh well. SOB didn't have outstanding Elites or Troops in C:WH days, so it was a bum deal. If you could do it now? Heck yeah.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Goresaw wrote:Whoa, whoa. Lets not get crazy here. Next thing you'll be saying is that mandrakes aren't a total waste of space.

Nah, they got worse.

Magc8Ball wrote:A question from someone that's never played Planetstrike: are the various fortifications' sizes defined in the 6E (or the PS) rulebook, or is it another case of "use the GW model or guesstimate"? After reading the game review by the Reddit Guy I really like the idea of a Bastion for my Dark Reapers (who are always looking for a good place to hide), but I will also naturally be building an Eldar-themed structure for them. I'm just not sure what sort of dimensions I should be dealing with here.

Thanks!

Using something somewhat similar to the footprint of the Bastion/Aegis Defense Lines, etc is a great way to start from.

You don't need to build it all exactly the same size, but using the "basics"(same heights and general dimensions) would seem like the best route to go from.

Alpharius wrote:Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.

The only one that would make any sense is the aforementioned IG/Genestealer Cult.

I think we'll see that reintroduced via WD eventually.

I hope!

Why should IG get all the Genestealer cult fun? what about Orks and Eldar and Tau?

Mr Morden wrote:

Dytalus wrote:

Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?

A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?

Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.

I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target

Basically Valeria invaded Trazyn's halls, big fight ensued. She escaped and he captured a bunch of her men and sent her the Tesserach Labyrinth as a f-you with a side of lulztrollface. Essentially he was sending it as a trap for her, but if she was smart enough to escape it's clutches (she obviously was), she could consider it a "gift" (basically showing how little of a threat he thinks her to be.) Someone in the GW office must have read that and not gotten the joke and though "Oh, they must be best buds!"

That's my take on the whole situation anyway.

It kind of makes my want to make a tiny little trollface mask to put on Trazyn now. like a cheap halloween mask

Kanluwen wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".

Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.

Simply put?

Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.

A Genestealer infestation doesn't require them to make anyone disappear. They implant a spore into a living subject, erasing that persons memory of the event in the process. That person then goes on and later reproduces, creating a genestealer hybrid, which then later reproduces, creating more hybrids and repeat for several generations until there is a large infestation without anyone having had to go missing and not be found, slightly confused but otherwise in good health to an untrained eye.

As a lot of the population are kept in the dark about genestealers and their methods there would be a very good chance of the hybrids going undetected, unless an Inquisitor or experienced IG commander happened to be on the planet.

I'm aware of the process.

However, what you are neglecting is that the individuals who are "taken" do disappear. They effectively vanish for the period of gestation, as otherwise their behaviors are erratic and noticeable.

It has been detailed little, but there is a reason for it.
And also:
Hybrids at the early stages of a Genestealer infestation go undetected, down two or three generations (which is what would be required for the Genestealer infected to actually get enough of a power base to make a "Genestealer Army" feasible) they acquire more and more noticeable traits of the Genestealer parentage. At that point, however, there is enough control within societal structure that those who begin to notice something is amiss are pretty much boned.

The main quesiton to me is is it any less likely than many of the other combinations that are possible.

Due to problems with the warp, the limited edition dice sets and the servo-skull tape measure - as shown in White Dwarf this month - have been delayed.

I was able to order Servo Skull tape measures when I placed my order Monday, and was told they would arrive Friday. Apparently they came back out of the warp. Such is the nature of Warp travel, time altering and such I guess.

Well, Necrons and Blood Angels NOT being battle brothers put an end to the fear of Sanguinary Warriors, 20 rapid firing necrons with FNP+RP+Relentless+Fearless...

And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.

pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.

Oh I don't think you've seen the end of the brofist joke. Far from it. There's just a lot of far more juicy targets for it now

pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.

I have a feeling these will only expand to other armies now. At least for the next couple months.

[edit] ninja'd!

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.

I have a feeling these will only expand to other armies now. At least for the next couple months.

[edit] ninja'd!

At least it'll be something somewhat new. Each time someone posts it thinking their clever and original, the soul of humanity dies a little.

Any news of you being able to use Imperial Armour 40k stamped units as standard?

I'd still love to hear about:

Campaigns and custom scenarios
Specifics about CCWs like chainswords and choppas
Bloody deep strikes
Drop pod assault

rogueeyes wrote:Has anyone even thought about how nids will try to fail instinctive behaviour tests in order to get rage and the rumored 2 attacks it gives?

Synapse be damned.

Well, considering that No Retreat seems to have poofed, I think I'd prefer my never dying gaunt tarpits.

Any foot Tyrants however will be committing suicide straight off so the Tyrant Guard can go RAGE RAGE RAGE RENDING RAGE.

junk wrote:Bloody deep strikes

They are like normal deep strikes but, you know, bloody.

pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.

Tau and Ultramarines or Daemons and IG brofisting is far, far worse.

Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.

I see alot of people taking issue with the whole Space Marines/Tau battle brother thing as going against the fluff.

I'd like to point out the previous brouhaha over the Necron/Blood Angel alliance bit that would not have made sense before but is perfectly conceivable in the new fluff.

pretre wrote: [...]

Codex: Eldar - "Not as bad as you think anymore"

Nah, it will still struggle. A big change will be needed. Footdar may be the way to go. If Serpents get the same amount of HPs as Rhinos, while being 3x the price; DAVU will loose a lot of it's strength. Holo-Falcons will be ridiculously easy to wreck. From broken resilient to laughably fragile during one book.

Harriticus wrote:Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.

Traitor ... wait for it, wait for it... guard


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Macok wrote:

pretre wrote: [...]

Codex: Eldar - "Not as bad as you think anymore"

Nah, it will still struggle. A big change will be needed. Footdar may be the way to go. If Serpents get the same amount of HPs as Rhinos, while being 3x the price; DAVU will loose a lot of it's strength. Holo-Falcons will be ridiculously easy to wreck. From broken resilient to laughably fragile during one book.

Good thing I recently picked up a big footdar army. Muahahahaha

Kanluwen wrote: And also:
Hybrids at the early stages of a Genestealer infestation go undetected, down two or three generations (which is what would be required for the Genestealer infected to actually get enough of a power base to make a "Genestealer Army" feasible) they acquire more and more noticeable traits of the Genestealer parentage. At that point, however, there is enough control within societal structure that those who begin to notice something is amiss are pretty much boned.

First gen Hybrids look very Genestealery. Late generation hybrids look almost like their parent race. It's those end-stage Hybrids that then give birth to Purestrains.