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Sooo.. I see people continuously mentioning Fire Warriors double tapping at 30 inches.

How? Especially considering the guy with a book has posted this:

Shooting Phase
- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)

Which for anyone not a marine pretty much means move and shoot once at full range or move/standstill and shoot twice at half range.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3120/456706.page

Mohoc wrote:Allies are your friends

Literally?

Mohoc wrote:

>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....

They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.

You seem to forget Traitor Guard.

I am actually annoyed that Demons and CSM are not Battle Brothers with IG, but SM are.

Can someone point me to the completely accurate, one hundred percent certain allies chart everyone seems to know about? because all I know about is what was on GW's website.

pretre wrote:

Mohoc wrote:Allies are your friends

Literally?

Only if you give them beer and pretzels. In the case of Space Wolfs though you need a brewery as your fortification slot.

Mohoc wrote:

Arrathon wrote:Not sure if this has been said or not (and if it has i do apologize) And not even sure if this is the place to ask but....So, everyone is getting fliers correct? well...where are the dark angels and Space wolves fliers? Will that Puddle jumper known as the Stormtalon be FAQ'd to them maybe in the Rule book or such? Just curious as i am a fan of Aircraft, no matter if it looks like a stack of legoblocks with guns glued to it.

Allies are your friends

That's what i figured, but was hoping otherwise. Guess i'll find a way to squeeze one of two things. Crowe, purifiers, and a stormraven. Or a Chappy, Death company, and a stormraven.

Well looking at the final Allies list, I'm not so worried about it anymore. I think a few armies will benefit from it, but most simply won't care. The extra FOC slots should be great to help out some armies that are force org starved like Eldar or Nids.

The main way I see allies being used is to put Hydras into armies that are lacking in anti-air or other little patchups.

xole wrote:Can someone point me to the completely accurate, one hundred percent certain allies chart everyone seems to know about? because all I know about is what was on GW's website.

There you go, sir: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3270/456706.page#4447214

RE: Traitor Guard

Well no I didn't forget, but isn't there a problem here?
Traitor guard are their own thing; there is a fundamental difference.

'Imperial Guard' doesn't just hang out with Chaos, following this logic we could also argue for Genestealer Cult or anything that fundamentally changes the army fluff.

Unless GW are encouraging us to convert and Proxy.....
I like the idea of Iron Warriors I suppose.

GW has always encouraged converting and counts as.

Those templates are terribley hideous.

Maige wrote:or anything that fundamentally changes the army fluff.

What, you mean like my Repentias teaming up with a bunch of DE Wyches?

Lynata wrote:

xole wrote:Can someone point me to the completely accurate, one hundred percent certain allies chart everyone seems to know about? because all I know about is what was on GW's website.

There you go, sir: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3270/456706.page#4447214

Thank you.

Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.

xole wrote:

Lynata wrote:

xole wrote:Can someone point me to the completely accurate, one hundred percent certain allies chart everyone seems to know about? because all I know about is what was on GW's website.

There you go, sir: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3270/456706.page#4447214

Thank you.

Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.

That's OK, Papa Nurgle loves you.

Thaylen wrote:So let me get this straight, not only do my tau double in firepower, now they can take hammernators in a landraider with a chaplain to compensate for my lack of close combat ability??

That sounds too good to be true, my opponents will cry.

I will cry because it's beyond stupid.

Try to make up some fluff that explains why your Tau army has a land raider full of terminators just permanently hanging out with them, running around and possible killing other space marines/loyal imperial guard, etc.

I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.

I for one am looking forward to using real Daemons in a C:SM army. I can actually make a word bearers army the semi-makes sense! And Alpha Legion as well.

Do we have a confirmation on how relentless works for all weapon types?

The first post in this thread still states the older rumour from Heresy Online that for rapid fire weapons it gives an extra shot to both the short and the long range.

Maige wrote:RE: Traitor Guard

Well no I didn't forget, but isn't there a problem here?
Traitor guard are their own thing; there is a fundamental difference.

'Imperial Guard' doesn't just hang out with Chaos, following this logic we could also argue for Genestealer Cult or anything that fundamentally changes the army fluff.

Unless GW are encouraging us to convert and Proxy.....
I like the idea of Iron Warriors I suppose.

Allowing Guard to Ally with Chaos gives you Traitor Guard without having to have a specific Codex - and yes Genestealer Cults should be in to allow Genestealer/Guard formations - thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

As has been noted - GW like you to convert and proxy - esp if you are buying new models to do so

Once the book is out hopefully GW wil sort out the mess

xole wrote:Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.

It's a bit silly. Obviously, GW went out of their way to make some fluffwise ridiculous combinations possible. The way the chart looks like right now, they may as well have went all the way and allowed everybody to ally with everyone. Sorry, but finding a cop-out excuse for SoB teaming up with Necrons is no harder than finding one for IG and 'nids or whatever.

I mean, I suppose they could have done this for balance reasons, but from looking at the possible combinations it still feels largely random.

Thunderfrog wrote:Sooo.. I see people continuously mentioning Fire Warriors double tapping at 30 inches.

How? Especially considering the guy with a book has posted this:

Shooting Phase
- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)

Which for anyone not a marine pretty much means move and shoot once at full range or move/standstill and shoot twice at half range.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3120/456706.page

There was an earlier rumor about possible double tapping at max range if you stand still. This has been corrected but some people haven't yet realized it.

Lynata wrote:I'm at a loss for why the SW aren't regarded as "worse" as most Marine Chapters, and why BT's aren't regarded as better, even if ever so slightly.

IIRC, the Imperial Lords over on Terra dislike the BT. They see them as a loose cannon of sorts, I can't remember the exact term used and my BT Codex is in the attic somewhere, lost to the dusts of time. Tbh, it always seemed to me like the only chapters actually liked by the Imperium are the ones from C:SM and none of the expansions.

Nobody finds it wierd that Imperial Guard can ally with Chaos Daemons?! Or did GW just do that to accomodate people who play traitor guard?

Lynata wrote:

xole wrote:Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.

It's a bit silly. Obviously, GW went out of their way to make some fluffwise ridiculous combinations possible. The way the chart looks like right now, they may as well have went all the way and allowed everybody to ally with everyone. Sorry, but finding a cop-out excuse for SoB teaming up with Necrons is no harder than finding one for IG and 'nids or whatever.

I mean, I suppose they could have done this for balance reasons, but from looking at the possible combinations it still feels largely random.

Yup, Tau best friends with Space Marines but apparently Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space marines not so much. Also, Dark Eldar BFFs with regular eldar.

Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?

A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?

GalacticDefender wrote:Nobody finds it wierd that Imperial Guard can ally with Chaos Daemons?! Or did GW just do that to accomodate people who play traitor guard?

Bingo. I know I'm going to take full advantage of this. I have an IG/Daemons/CSM force that can all inter ally with each other which will make having multiple armies even more fun.

I'll just to to try and resist slapping people who seek to take advantage of the more ridiculous things the chart allows.

The Black Templars are better regarded than some other Chapters - Dark Angels and Space Wolves for instance. The main concern about the BT is the size of the Chapter but the Codex states that given their fanatical devotion and lack of "incidents" like the SW etc its usually ignored

And yes IG/Deamons does make sense to allow for Traitor Guard without buying Imperial Armour

Oh and does anyone know if Imperial Armour is now official rules same as with WFB - hope so

Dark Eldar do assist Eldar in the Codex - saving Iyanden in fact.

Oh and course whatever cheesy combination one player can come up with - your opponent can do the same...........

Lynata wrote: I mean, I suppose they could have done this for balance reasons, but from looking at the possible combinations it still feels largely random.

I hazard to guess there are some kind of sales considerations that influenced the table. Dunno what they are exactly and don't feel like pondering it. But it's definitely a "follow the money" kind of edition change, and I think it probably applies here in some way too.

Dytalus wrote:IIRC, the Imperial rules over on Terra dislike the BT. They see them as a loose cannon of sorts, I can't remember the exact term used and my BT Codex is in the attic somewhere, lost to the dusts of time. Tbh, it always seemed to me like the only chapters actually liked by the Imperium are the ones from C:SM and none of the expansions.

Hmm, if you happen to find it, I'd appreciate if you could shoot me a PM.

I only have the 3E BT Codex, and from the stuff in there the Black Templars looked pretty amiable from a SoB PoV, especially since we've heard of a lot of joint ops but never seen them having trouble with each other, be it with words or arms.

In the end, I'm largely just confused that the SW being troublemakers is once again forgotten. It's as if the entire Imperium is mindwiped every 100 years to forget what the Wolves keep on doing all the time. Your idea of just lumping all non-vanilla SM Codices into "Desperate Allies" and making Vanilla SM "Allies of Convenience" (if that's what you were aiming at) sounds reasonable, too, I guess.

Therion wrote:Do we have a confirmation on how relentless works for all weapon types?

The first post in this thread still states the older rumour from Heresy Online that for rapid fire weapons it gives an extra shot to both the short and the long range.

Yes. It's somewhere between pages 105-and now. I think it's address it both Rattmans reading from his book and the third round of confirmations from the Reddit guy. Happy hunting.

Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.

Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?

A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?

Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.

I think it's more up to the player to make the connection of why your 2 forces are allied. Like they do at most team events that allow you to play any 2 forces on the same side.
GW just gave everyone to Ward up the fluff.

Except Nids... F those guys....

I think the worse I am going to do is:
Add a Commissar, and a Veteran Squad to give my Space Wolves a Leman Russ Squadron
Add a Harlequin Troop the My Guard or Grey Knights
Add some Grey Knights to my Dark Angels.
Adding a Inquisitor to my Guard.
My most Blatant will most likely is being able to have Shrike lead my Blood Angels Honor Guard [with Jump Packs and Lighting Claws]