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I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.

SOB: BURN THE HERETIC

BT: Yeah burn that heretic guy, so what are you doing later tonight?

SOB: BURNING HERETICS!!!!!!

BT: yeah i know but after, like the burning and stuff, you wanna go check out a movie or grab a coff...........

SOB: I SAID IM BURNING HERETICS!!!! GET IT DONE OR GET OUT OF MY WAY I HAVE SOME CLEANSING TO DO!!!!!!!!!!

BT: got it, got it okay have at it........jerk

Macok wrote:

junk wrote:

It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.

The sisters are all 'burn!' and 'repent', the tau are like a tropical race of pot smoking buddhists...

When you've got to babysit an objective for months waiting for a drop ship to come resupply an outpost, who would you rather be hanging out with - a feminist nun motivated by a fanatical hatred, or a bunch of chillaxed fire warriors having krootox races for the greater good?

Edit: Ninja'd!

Isn't it rumoured that Ultramarines will be "the bestest friends forever, love and kisses" with Tau? It was something about taking them under their personal protection.

It's "rumored" that it will be a fluff change; but the likelihood of such a thing being true is so far beyond the pale that discussing it is silly.

The Tau and Astartes have gotten on together in the past, when facing greater threats than themselves.

It's also worth noting that when you're discussing "Space Marines", you're discussing the myriad of Chapters which make up the "Codex: Space Marines" book....which is a ton of them.

- Edited by insaniak. OT, and the language filter is there for a reason. Please don't circumvent it. -

I'm guessing Sisters don't like to work with SM moreso than the other way around. I thought the old fluff had them seeing SM as borderline heretics for having their own cults, etc. and not buying into the divinity of the Emperor 100%.

And I thought the rumor was that Guilliman thought the Tau were the new chosen ones or something and ordered their protection accordingly. Obviously a retcon.

Macok wrote:

junk wrote:

It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.

The sisters are all 'burn!' and 'repent', the tau are like a tropical race of pot smoking buddhists...

When you've got to babysit an objective for months waiting for a drop ship to come resupply an outpost, who would you rather be hanging out with - a feminist nun motivated by a fanatical hatred, or a bunch of chillaxed fire warriors having krootox races for the greater good?

Edit: Ninja'd!

Isn't it rumoured that Ultramarines will be "the bestest friends forever, love and kisses" with Tau? It was something about taking them under their personal protection.

Actually yeah, it turns out that this whole time, farsight has actually been Robute inside that armor, and the Tau are going to receive his geneseed and become Tau Ultramarines. Also, they're immune to chaos, they were the ones who actually defeated the c'tan for the necrons, and a couple fire warriors walked into the warp and carved their names into the hearts of daemons because they heard some grey knight did it. Also, they eat tyranids.

Just realized that Scarabs got a massive buff offense-wise against vehicles...they now hit on 3s and still reduce the armor by 1 on a 4+...and with the new glancing / hull point rules, any decent scarab squad that attacks a vehicle in melee immediately destroys it in one turn.

Quick mathhammer:

Let's say that squad gets to the enemy with 6 bases left. On charge, we're looking at 30 attacks. 20 attacks hit and 10 reduce the enemy armor which means that even if he has more than 10 back armor, he is going to lose the vehicle anyway due to S3 attacking rear armor.

Let's say that 3 bases make it. 15 attacks, 10 hit, 5 reduce the back armor to about 5-6 and we then get 5 rolls for pen - and we'll need a 2 or 3 to glance, 3 glances and we got a dead transporter. On average, with only 3 bases. Nomnomnom.

Drakmord:
Voidblades etc

I forgot to add that it refers to Power and Force weapons only.
Something like a Voidblade is a completely different weapon with it's own unique rules (Rending I think?).

Basically there is no such thing as a vanilla Power/Force weapon anymore.

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.

And the SW don't?

Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)

Yeah, and the Sisters fought alongside the Space Wolves on Cadia.

Then immediately set to work hunting down The 13th Company.
What's your point?

Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarchy clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition

I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.

The Ecclesiarchy and Space Wolves have a long, long history of the Ecclesiarchy continually trying to purge the inhabitants of Fenris for "spirit worship" and whatever other crap they can try to get away with.

They always do it without any real support, and every time they get their butts handed to them.
You'd think they would get the message by now, since nobody ever tries to support them in it.

The idea of allies was great
GW putting the idea of allies into practice seems haphazard, poorly thought out (if thought out at all) and very badly executed.
And of course, this leeds to nids getting an even greater nerf.

So let me get this straight, not only do my tau double in firepower, now they can take hammernators in a landraider with a chaplain to compensate for my lack of close combat ability??

That sounds too good to be true, my opponents will cry.

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.

And the SW don't?

Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)

Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition

I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.

Nah, chicks dig beards

Nids got raped going from 4th to 5th. Looks like they spent 5th smoking a cigarette and are coming back for seconds on 6th edition.

I feel for any new nid players out there, their new dex is going to need to be quite powerful to keep up.

Maige wrote:Drakmord:
Voidblades etc

I forgot to add that it refers to Power and Force weapons only.
Something like a Voidblade is a completely different weapon with it's own unique rules (Rending I think?).

Basically there is no such thing as a vanilla Power/Force weapon anymore.

Rending and Entropic Strike, yeah

oh well, thank you for answering!

I just figured out an 8 HQ Space Wolf Legal [4 HQ, 2 Troops] List. This is built how I normally kit them out, including Sagas and who the HQs would be attached to, 2k is not enough.

Bjorn the Fell-Handed

Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf
Njal Stormcaller, Lord of Tempests [In Runic Terminator Armor]
Ulrik the Slayer
Wolf Lord Ragnar Blackmane [2 Fenrisian Wolves]
Wolf Priest in Runic Armour
Grey Hunters Pack [x10]

Bran Redmaw (IA)
Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Power Armour [2 Fenrisian Wolves]
Grey Hunters Pack [x10]

Model Count: 32
2,205 points

Kanluwen wrote:It's "rumored" that it will be a fluff change; but the likelihood of such a thing being true is so far beyond the pale that discussing it is silly.

The Tau and Astartes have gotten on together in the past, when facing greater threats than themselves.

It's also worth noting that when you're discussing "Space Marines", you're discussing the myriad of Chapters which make up the "Codex: Space Marines" book....which is a ton of them.

But I don't think that right now this rumour is far fetched and THAT silly. GW is trying to make alliances between armies. Maybe even the whole "Tau live because of plot-storm" will actually be changed to "Tau live because Ultramarines like them". And C:SM is C:Ultramarines and Friends. Possibility of Orks:IG alliance (despite Yarrick) and Orks:Tau (despite Farsight) show that if part of codex is good to go, a whole codex is good to go. C:SM is battle brothers with Tau because its significant part are Ultramarines.

junk wrote:Actually yeah, it turns out that this whole time, farsight has actually been Robute inside that armor, and the Tau are going to receive his geneseed and become Tau Ultramarines. Also, they're immune to chaos, they were the ones who actually defeated the c'tan for the necrons, and a couple fire warriors walked into the warp and carved their names into the hearts of daemons because they heard some grey knight did it. Also, they eat tyranids.

I'd watch that show

Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition

Dont remember that one, where can I find the fluff about pups fighting sisters?

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.

And the SW don't?

Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)

Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition

I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.

Yeah I said that earlier - its stupid , the whole who allies with whom thing is poorly researched and written - unless major things have chnaged in the fluff since 5th Ed...............

I like ally rules but lets have them make some sense

In my opinion the only major issue the BT and SOB will have is each likely trying to prove who hates the enemy more and who is more faithful to Him!! Certainly alot less problems than allying with Vampires and Werewolves

@Anpu: I like the 6 TWC Lords and 2 RP list a bit better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pyriel- wrote:

Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition

Dont remember that one, where can I find the fluff about pups fighting sisters?

SW Codex.

To be honest I'm more confused by Guard's allies:

>Necron & Dark Eldar
Evil! Avoid them if you can.

>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....

They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.

Mr Morden wrote:Yeah I said that earlier - its stupid , the whole who allies with whom thing is poorly researched and written - unless major things have chnaged in the fluff since 5th Ed...............

I like ally rules but lets have them make some sense

In my opinion the only major issue the BT and SOB will have is each likely trying to prove who hates the enemy more and who is more faithful to Him!! Certainly alot less problems than allying with Vampires and Werewolves

Or, you know, the doctrinal differences where the BT don't think he's god and the SoB do. That might come up a bit.

Also, yay, silly Vampire and Werewolf comments!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maige wrote:To be honest I'm more confused by Guard's allies:

>Necron & Dark Eldar
Evil! Avoid them if you can.

>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....

They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.

You seem to forget Traitor Guard.

Maige wrote:To be honest I'm more confused by Guard's allies:

>Necron & Dark Eldar
Evil! Avoid them if you can.

>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....

They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.

Traitor Guard for Chaos, Slave Guard for the Necrons and DE

Edit:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.

And the SW don't?

Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)

Yeah, and the Sisters fought alongside the Space Wolves on Cadia.

Then immediately set to work hunting down The 13th Company.
What's your point?

Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarchy clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition

I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.

The Ecclesiarchy and Space Wolves have a long, long history of the Ecclesiarchy continually trying to purge the inhabitants of Fenris for "spirit worship" and whatever other crap they can try to get away with.

They always do it without any real support, and every time they get their butts handed to them.
You'd think they would get the message by now, since nobody ever tries to support them in it.

I thought the SW didn't like the Ecclesiarchy because they killed the inhabitants of Armaggedon. And Logan got all sad puppy on them.

Wow this means I can actually Represent Keltizfiel and the whole Angel Prince forces. O.O awesome.
Except no Chief Apothecary....

Thaylen wrote:Nids got raped going from 4th to 5th. Looks like they spent 5th smoking a cigarette and are coming back for seconds on 6th edition.

I feel for any new nid players out there, their new dex is going to need to be quite powerful to keep up.

Actually, I think that hull points help Tyranids quite a bit. All their mid-strength shooting will now be able to strip hull points on light transports. A Dakkafex or Tyrant with two TL devs will, on average, wreck a Rhino or Razorback in one volley of shooting. And when stuff gets out of their metal boxes, things get easier for the Tyranids. The codex kills infantry pretty well...it's the metal boxes that create the problems for Tyranids, either by not opening or forcing the Tyranid player to devote too many resources to antivehicle in order to open them. I think it's a definite improvement that all the midstrength shooting can now serve double duty, at least against AV10/11. It might relieve a little of the pressure on the Elites slots, at least.

Edit: Even Termagants with Devourers will pretty good against AV10.

Light vehicles are going to be very fragile against the right kind of dakka.

DeffDred wrote:I thought the SW didn't like the Ecclesiarchy because they killed the inhabitants of Armaggedon. And Logan got all sad puppy on them.

That's the inquisition. The Ecclesiarchy attacked Fenris.

Except you can't ally with the same army.

streamdragon wrote:

Lynata wrote:Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun

wut

Maybe "fun" was a bit of exaggeration, but when the Ecclesiarchy came to visit Fenris to investigate rumors of genetic mutation and heretic practice within the Space Wolves Chapter, they were gunned down in front of the door. As a response to this, the aforementioned punitive expedition followed.
It's in the SW Codex.

Until seeing that chart I thought it was safe to say that the SW and the Ecclesiarchy aren't on the best terms right now.

gorgon wrote:I'm guessing Sisters don't like to work with SM moreso than the other way around. I thought the old fluff had them seeing SM as borderline heretics for having their own cults, etc. and not buying into the divinity of the Emperor 100%.

So-so. Both factions share a grudging respect for each others' skill at arms, but of course the Sisters seem to lean more towards the side of the Ecclesiarchy who thinks the Marines are abhumans. Individual Chapters are probably more respected when they (at least officially) stick to the Codex and display a great amount of loyalty to the Imperial Creed. It is also not that rare to see Marines and Sisters fighting alongside each other; depending on how the Marines fight and coordinate with the SoB, the Sisters' view on them may change to increased respect (or hostility).

I'm at a loss for why the SW aren't regarded as "worse" as most Marine Chapters, and why BT's aren't regarded as better, even if ever so slightly.

My own suggestion would have been:

SoB + Black Templars = Battle Brothers
SoB + Blood Angels = Desperate Allies
SoB + Dark Angels = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Dark Eldar = Come the Apocalypse
SoB + Eldar = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Grey Knights = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Imperial Guard = Battle Brothers
SoB + Necrons = Come the Apocalypse
SoB + Space Marines = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Space Wolves = Desperate Allies
SoB + Tau Empire = Desperate Allies

... and that's being generous about the xenos.

>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....

They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.

You seem to forget Traitor Guard.

I am actually annoyed that Demons and CSM are not Battle Brothers with IG, but SM are.

Not sure if this has been said or not (and if it has i do apologize) And not even sure if this is the place to ask but....So, everyone is getting fliers correct? well...where are the dark angels and Space wolves fliers? Will that Puddle jumper known as the Stormtalon be FAQ'd to them maybe in the Rule book or such? Just curious as i am a fan of Aircraft, no matter if it looks like a stack of legoblocks with guns glued to it.

Arrathon wrote:Not sure if this has been said or not (and if it has i do apologize) And not even sure if this is the place to ask but....So, everyone is getting fliers correct? well...where are the dark angels and Space wolves fliers? Will that Puddle jumper known as the Stormtalon be FAQ'd to them maybe in the Rule book or such? Just curious as i am a fan of Aircraft, no matter if it looks like a stack of legoblocks with guns glued to it.

Allies are your friends