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Here is my mech list:

Doomseer w/ both runes

Autarch w/ fusion gun

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser, shuricannon (underslung)

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser, shuricannon (underslung)

5 Dire Avengers
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser, shuricannon (underslung)

5 Dire Avengers
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser, shuricannon (underslung)

5 Dire Avengers
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser, shuricannon (underslung)

3 Warwalkers w/ dual scatterlasers

3 Warwalkers w/ dual shuricannons

Total: 1500 pts on the dot.

Autarch boosts reserve rolls.
Lots of shots: 44 shots via scatterlasers, 33 shots via shuricannons, 11 fusion guns. Ouch!

Thoughts?

There's not alot wrong with that. Where are you running the HQ's, Farseer with DA's and Autarch with Dragons?

Gorechild wrote:There's not alot wrong with that. Where are you running the HQ's, Farseer with DA's and Autarch with Dragons?

Not sure though.
But I think you're right.

Good luck getting points for army composition.

I think you would actually be better served with Guide then doom. You have next to 0 small arms fire, or close combat, which is usually what benefits most from doom. And a whole mess of s6 shooting, which only benefit from doom when firing on MCs.

Taking Guide allows you to tl your war walkers. With bs3 s6, I'd rather have 50% more hits then a few more wounds.

akaean wrote:I think you would actually be better served with Guide then doom. You have next to 0 small arms fire, or close combat, which is usually what benefits most from doom. And a whole mess of s6 shooting, which only benefit from doom when firing on MCs.

Taking Guide allows you to tl your war walkers. With bs3 s6, I'd rather have 50% more hits then a few more wounds.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm also not a giant fan of the underslung Cannon. It provides a nice firepower boost, but it restricts your movement quite a bit. Dropping them all frees up 50 points. You can also drop Runes of Wit for another 10 (and 5 for the Doom to Guide).

That leaves enough points to upgrade the War Walkers from Cannons to Scatter Lasers and give the Farseer a Singing Spear.

Classic min/max to the extreme.

Change the Doom to Guide

Drop the underslungs and stones freeing up 100 pts - why?
- Do you plan to move 6" within 24" of your opponent with those fragile 5 man units? Even the dragons should be moving in at a 12" pace to get their shots off.
- Stones, if you take off the cannons and keep your distance is the stun result really going to ruin your day? Also, you paying 10pts to negate a 17% chance.

Use said 100pts to:
- Upgrade your FD WS to Scatters and your 3 DA to EMLs.


Playing a very similar list quite often you'll prob find that the Autauch really doesn't justify his cost. The reserves is a yay, but zero melee prowess you are essentially paying 80pts for a +17% to get your reserves, a +2 BS fire dragon, and are giving up an extra KP/tourney objective/etc per game.

Lady_Canoness wrote:Good luck getting points for army composition.

There will be no points for composition.

think you would actually be better served with Guide then doom. You have next to 0 small arms fire, or close combat, which is usually what benefits most from doom. And a whole mess of s6 shooting, which only benefit from doom when firing on MCs.

Taking Guide allows you to tl your war walkers. With bs3 s6, I'd rather have 50% more hits then a few more wounds.

This is what I thought, too.
Guide eventually helps the Warwalkers to increase the number of hits.
However, guide is very short ranged. The Warwalkers with shuricannons will eventually outflank and so may not be within range. The same might hold for the Warwalkers with scatterlasers since the Serpent of the Farseer eventually will move - not sure though.

On the other hand, if the enemy runs MCs like a DP or a Trygon, then doom comes in very handy.
Against T6 creatures, the number of wounds inflicted by S6 weapons will increase by 25% (wound on 4+ and reroll missed ones).


The underslung cannons seem to be an issue, too.
But they provide additional shots that might be required to kill an enemy unit in cover or an MC, since I have no cc units.

Playing a very similar list quite often you'll prob find that the Autarch really doesn't justify his cost. The reserves is a yay, but zero melee prowess you are essentially paying 80pts for a +17% to get your reserves, a +2 BS fire dragon, and are giving up an extra KP/tourney objective/etc per game.

I'm not a big fan of the Autarch too.
But she boosts reserve rolls and this is the decisive point.
Recently I played in an RTT winning it (Dec. 2010, report here at Dakka), but in the final game vs. DE my army staying in reserve arrived in pieces (2 skimmers in turn 2, 1 skimmer in turn 3, and the rest in turn 4). It was a nightmare but I managed to get on top finally. Therefore the Autarch has to stay.

The list looks like a strong tournament list to me, with just a few notes and counterpoints to what others have said.

In tournaments, you nearly always want to try to go second and start in reserve with this army, so the autarch is essential.

Doom is the best power for a farseer IMO. At a tournament, you see a lot of T6 creatures that really need to die, because they're good at catching and killing your tanks, and you need the massed wounds to get through their 3+/2+ saves. The farseer in one of the FD serpents is usually far forward enough to cast on a good target (guide is too short-ranged for a moving unit), and casting doom at the start of your turn lets you doublecheck where 24" is for the purposes of moving and shooting your shuriken cannons later. I'd even drop guide and runes of witnessing before doom. Yes, guided warwalkers are nice, but they still get plenty of hits without it. And I'd drop the farseer before the autarch if I needed points.

Based on my experience of running massed SL/SC wave serpents, the shuriken cannon upgrade is also a really good value. In practice, you get plenty of opportunity to move 6" within 24" of something you want to shoot, and I'd estimate that my shuriken cannons probably shoot about half the time.

You're often standing off at between 18-24" range where nothing can reach you and it's perfectly safe to move only 6". Something else that often happens is that the FD serpents are out in front, while the DA serpents are further back, so you move the assault-vulnerable FD serpents 7" and the DA serpents (that can't be reached in assault because the other serpents are in the way) 6" to get an extra 12 shots from your shuriken cannons.

The biggest change I think this army needs is to get scatterlasers on all the warwalkers. The extra range is really essential for the slow-moving walkers, who actually usually want to outflank so they need to be able to reach 42" in from the edge on the turn they come in. Also three SL warwalkers in a squadron is kind of overkill on most targets, so I'd go with three units of two walkers each, for the ability to shoot at more targets (or one unit of 2 and one of 3 if you need the points for scatterlasers).

In tournaments, you nearly always want to try to go second and start in reserve with this army, so the autarch is essential.

Indeed, this is the plan.

You're often standing off at between 18-24" range where nothing can reach you and it's perfectly safe to move only 6". Something else that often happens is that the FD serpents are out in front, while the DA serpents are further back, so you move the assault-vulnerable FD serpents 7" and the DA serpents (that can't be reached in assault because the other serpents are in the way) 6" to get an extra 12 shots from your shuriken cannons.

Yeah, the army can create a killing zone at between 18-24'' range, especially against armies geared towards assault.

The biggest change I think this army needs is to get scatterlasers on all the warwalkers. The extra range is really essential for the slow-moving walkers, who actually usually want to outflank so they need to be able to reach 42" in from the edge on the turn they come in. Also three SL warwalkers in a squadron is kind of overkill on most targets, so I'd go with three units of two walkers each, for the ability to shoot at more targets (or one unit of 2 and one of 3 if you need the points for scatterlasers).

Three Warwalkers with dual shuricannons are a real bargain (120 pts). The plan is to let them outflank such that they eventually get into range.
I'll think about reorganization of the squadrons.

Thanks to all contributors!