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HQ = 300

2 Hommunculus
Duke Slicius

TROOP

15 Wyches (210)
+Hekatrix
+Agoniser
+3 Hydra Gauntlets

15 Wyches (210)
+Hekatrix
+Agonizer
+3 Shardnet Impalers

10 Warriors (120)
+Syrabite
+Venom Blade
+Blaster

10 Warriors (120)
+Syrabite
+Venom Blade
+Blaster

ELITE

6 Incubi (152)
+ Klaivex
+ Onslaught

9 Trueborn (163)
+2 SplinterCannons
+7 ShardCarbines

HVY

VoidRaven (205)
+ 4 NEroToxin Missles
+FlickerField
+Nightfield

DEDICATED TRANSPORT

Duke Raider (90)
+Flicker
+NIghtField
+Splinter Rack

Raider Warriors (80)
+Nightfield
+Flickerfield

Raider Warriors (80)
+Nightfield
+Flickerfield

Raider Incubi (75)
+FlickerField
+AetherSails

So my list has 30 wyches on the ground, the 15 with the Shardnet Impalers hold up big things like dreads, D Princes and characters, while the hydra gauntlet one hits large blobs of infantry, both start with the hommunculus for FnP at the beginning then leave him and go from cover to cover untill they hit something, Duke gives em 2 choices of drugs, and i stick him with the trueborn so they can shoot 8 shots on the move, 12 stationary hitting on 3s, rerolls, then wounding on 3s, and if the other trueborn get close they can add there assult 3 shots, the 2 warriors stick by duke and allof them pester vehicles with there dark lances, bomber hangs back and hits things wit templates, since the missles are 48" and the nightfield should leave me safe, and if needed its S 9 lances can do some good damage, the incubi are my ambush unit, theyll fly turbo and move an xtra 2d6 to find a spot to hide in the middle of the map, and then attack when i see an opening. Tried making a list where it can handle anything so ive got the shooting and CC any one else have something to add or change would be appreciated

You to few ranged anti tank weapons at 1750 you should be near to 20 shoots/turn

Hydra Gauntlets (statistically) are worse than Razorflails, I'd change the gauntlets for either another net unit or for flails.

I'd give the shardnet unit haywire grenades, they are awesome against walkers and are a reliable way to tackle AV13/14.

The syrabites are a bit of a waste, you REALLY dont want your warriors in combat so the points could be better spent elsewhere.

You need more anti-tank, so I'd drop the bomber for some ravagers with flickerfields.

You could drop 1 Incubi and put them in a venom?

What gear are you giving the haemy's?

i just hve the hameys for the FnP token, and i only give the cheap weapon and syrabite for the leadership 9 i dont ever get them into combat, i could replace the Voidraven with another raider with trueborn and 4 blasters for 5 more lances, but those S 9 lances sound tempting

The Haemonculi i would suggest one with a flesh gauntlet. they are great weapons for close combat. i remember taking downa trygon in combat with one.
take hawire Grenades in one squad of Whyches. easily a Monolith could be crumbled.

I'd drop all the nightshields. If you don't have haywires on your wyches, I'd take them. Why take two Haemonculi just for the tokens? Why stop there? Find 35pts and you have a way of delivering 30 wyches safely to somewhere on the table via WWP instead of walking there taking shots. I'd drop the sybarite upgrade and their weapons. They are not needed. You'd be better off spending those points on a splinter cannon in the squad...or a dark lance. Either way, sybarites are worthless. I'd drop the Onslaught and take demi-klaives instead OR lose the Klaivex upgrade and just field 5 Incubi in a Venom. Lastly, you mention getting re-rolls with your splintercannons because of splinter racks...that doesn't work. The wargear only works on carbines, rifles, pistols.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hydra Gauntlets (statistically) are worse than Razorflails, I'd change the gauntlets for either another net unit or for flails.

Not if he's taking the Duke. He's got a decent combo with the Gauntlets and what the Duke can provide.

Wyches on foot have almost no hope of reaching combat without some help. Even with FNP to start with they aren't that hard to kill. A Webway portal is the most obvious way of getting them across the board quickly, it means they are going to get into your opponents face without being shot. The alternative would be to take Beastmasters with a large number of Khymera and giving yourself a large moving screen so you can move up at full speed and hopefully get there in one piece. Beastmasters would probably be pretty helpful in a Webway based list as well, they would probably be a better choice than Incubi given there massive threat range (without a vehicle).

Taking Shardnets and chasing after Dreads/Walkers with Wyches seems like a pretty stupid idea because you can't kill them. Sure that Dread is going to be stuck in combat maybe killing 1 Wych per turn, but when it costs half you points and you completely lose the initiative (on an unit which needs to be aggressive or it dies) thats a situation your opponent is going to take every time. With Haywires at least you can fight your way out if you end up in that situation.

The main problem is at the moment this list absolutely shreds both light and heavy infantry, but will really struggle against vehicles. The Void Raven is probably too expensive at this points level and Neurotoxin is hardly optimal either (you can only hurt infantry with them, and Shatterfields are more effective against standard infantry and vehicles). For the cost you could take two Ravagers, which is much more helpful for this list.

You can also trim a ton of points by dropped some extra upgrades. 10 Warriors is a waste if all you are taking is a Blaster, you only need 5 and in this list they are clearly going to need to hunt vehicles so the extra bodies aren't very useful. Alternatively take 10 with a Dark Lance and have them sit at the back and shoot things. The Sybarite + Venom Blade is also a waste, Warriors should never end up in combat and if they do for some reason a single Venom Blade isn't going to save them. Just accept that if they end up in combat they are dead and move on, its more beneficial for you to have them crushed in a single round of combat anyway (so you can shoot them next turn). I would also avoid taking both Flickerfields and Night Shields on the same vehicle, it gets pricey and doesn't provide you enough benefits. Flickerfields are for aggressive units/transports, Night Shield are for backfield units, they don't mix well.

This is going to give you plenty of points, and you have plenty of potential places to put them. Another Haemonculi + WWP if you want to go down that route, Haywires on the Wyches, another Ravager or a Beastmaster unit (could make it pretty big if you drop the Incubi as well) are all good options.

Powerguy wrote:Taking Shardnets and chasing after Dreads/Walkers with Wyches seems like a pretty stupid idea because you can't kill them. Sure that Dread is going to be stuck in combat maybe killing 1 Wych per turn, but when it costs half you points and you completely lose the initiative (on an unit which needs to be aggressive or it dies) thats a situation your opponent is going to take every time. With Haywires at least you can fight your way out if you end up in that situation.

How did you come to the conclusion that you can't kill them? Haywires glance on a 2-5 and pen on a 6, two shardnets mean the dread has -2 attacks against a unit with a 4+ inv save, It can tie up a dread for the whole game and is likely to wreck it by the second turn when the worst that can really happen is you loose a 12 point model each turn.

SupremeOverL0rdVect wrote:HQ = 300

2 Hommunculus these have 50pts of upgrades by the 300pt header what have they got
Duke Slicius

TROOP

15 Wyches (210) It's been said but bears repeat again haywires!!
+Hekatrix
+Agoniser
+3 Hydra Gauntlets Everyone has different opinions on what weapon to take my preference is shardnets but it's all apples and oranges

15 Wyches (210) Same as above
+Hekatrix
+Agonizer
+3 Shardnet Impalers

10 Warriors (120) Don't think you need the sybarite or quite the numbers you have
+Syrabite
+Venom Blade
+Blaster

10 Warriors (120) Ditto
+Syrabite
+Venom Blade
+Blaster

ELITE

6 Incubi (152) Klaviex aint that hot and for the points you spend to get him you could have another incubi
+ Klaivex
+ Onslaught

9 Trueborn (163) Evil shooty unit
+2 SplinterCannons
+7 ShardCarbines

HVY

VoidRaven (205) Spendy spendy I'd consider the razorwing (free str 6 missiles)
+ 4 NEroToxin Missles
+FlickerField
+Nightfield

DEDICATED TRANSPORT

Duke Raider (90)
+Flicker
+NIghtField
+Splinter Rack Splinter racks only twinlink splinter rifles therefore this is a waste of points

Raider Warriors (80)
+Nightfield
+Flickerfield

Raider Warriors (80)
+Nightfield
+Flickerfield

Raider Incubi (75)
+FlickerField
+AetherSails

My comments in red

Your wyches footslogging is a bad bad idea, no one in thier right mind will let them get an assault on anything they can hurt and will shoot them down with contempt.

Thx everyone for the tips and rule reminders, (I swear i thought splinter racks were all splinter weapons) tried the list out twice on Wed in 1750 pnt games at a hobby store and won them both, Haywire nades and Shardnet Impaler wyche squad a great combo, People say footlogging wyches is a bad idea but i beg to differ after today, it may sound bad till you try it, with FnP and hugging cover just moving and fleeting you can get to the fight and when you do its masaccre, esspecially if you roll the drug 3D6 PtH fleet,

Bomber has to be changed, i really dont like Ravagers id hve to try em out i guess but in the game the bomber did lived but didnt do the points justice, 10 warriors and a dark lance sounds good, dont kno why i took the blaster wen tht option was in front of me, i think ill do it for dukes raider as well and take out the Splinter Cannons for the DLs, gives me more anti tank as well, thx everybody again for the opinions really helped build the DE

Gorechild wrote:

Powerguy wrote:Taking Shardnets and chasing after Dreads/Walkers with Wyches seems like a pretty stupid idea because you can't kill them. Sure that Dread is going to be stuck in combat maybe killing 1 Wych per turn, but when it costs half you points and you completely lose the initiative (on an unit which needs to be aggressive or it dies) thats a situation your opponent is going to take every time. With Haywires at least you can fight your way out if you end up in that situation.

How did you come to the conclusion that you can't kill them? Haywires glance on a 2-5 and pen on a 6, two shardnets mean the dread has -2 attacks against a unit with a 4+ inv save, It can tie up a dread for the whole game and is likely to wreck it by the second turn when the worst that can really happen is you loose a 12 point model each turn.

Your list doesn't have any of your Wych units with Haywires ... If you give them Haywires they become ok at dealing with walkers, but you are still hitting on 6's so its far from ideal.

Powerguy wrote:
Your list doesn't have any of your Wych units with Haywires ... If you give them Haywires they become ok at dealing with walkers, but you are still hitting on 6's so its far from ideal.

Hitting on 6's up until the dread is stunned or immobilised, then your hitting vs WS a much nicer prospect. This is where a bit of forward planning comes in shooting a walker with a unit before you assault it with wyches can really pay divedens (as well as futher reduce the attacks you get back.

Its a much nicer prospect, but still not a great or particularly reliable way to deal with walkers. Because you mainly cause glancing hits its still going to take a while to handle walkers (who have plenty of weapons and don't care about shaken and stunned). As you mention the main way DE deal with walkers is to shoot them to death before they get too close. The advantage of taking Haywires is partly so that you don't get completely tarpitted by walkers, but mostly you take them to mess with parking lots (where glancing hits are much more helpful).

Powerguy wrote:Its a much nicer prospect, but still not a great or particularly reliable way to deal with walkers. Because you mainly cause glancing hits its still going to take a while to handle walkers (who have plenty of weapons and don't care about shaken and stunned). As you mention the main way DE deal with walkers is to shoot them to death before they get too close. The advantage of taking Haywires is partly so that you don't get completely tarpitted by walkers, but mostly you take them to mess with parking lots (where glancing hits are much more helpful).

But haywires can pen too. Yeah sure I'd like to shoot a dread and have it explode but I usually have more pressing targets.

Assaulting it has multiple advantages:

1) Your in assault and can't be shot
2) You a get a 4++ vs an attack if he hits (if you use a shardnet + stun is likely to be one attack a turn which works out to one dead wych every 4 assault rounds)
3) Even though you may get the occasional pen you are far more likely to kill a dread with glances meaning it's less likely to explode.