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I can't stand fielding a bunch of Rhinos anymore. It's stupid. I piece together models, convert them, paint them, and when it comes time to play the game, I put a bunch of metal boxes on the table. It's lame. I understand that transports have their place in 40k. But it shouldn't be on every squad in your army. Is there a space marine army that can play reasonably competitive without transports? Because if not, I'm about to start losing a whole lot of games just because I hate Rhinos.

Biker army? (DA and SM codex)
Drop pod army? (Probably not what you're looking for)
DoA?(BA codex)
Assault squad army? (Limited to the BA for true competitiveness)
Footslogging army... probably not a competitive choice but you get more bodies on the ground (Pretty much any codex)
Some kind of -Wing army... Deathwing, Loganwing, GKwing.
Footslogging assaulty army (BT codex take the biggest squads you can and just hope to soak up shooting)
Mech is the new 'thing' it'll probably be the way to go until next edition and then... who knows maybe flying will be a good idea...

I'd second the Drop pod army, sure its just a different transport, but at least you'll have your infantry units on the board (and in the right pace) from early on.

I was hoping to try something along a Death Guard footslogging army, as it fits their fluff...in fact, in the last codex, you had restrictions on taking transports for death guard squads. But I don't see how I can win with a bunch of footslogging plague marines.

Very slowly...
You could try tanks and make a gunline but with the Deathguard's relatively short range i'm not sure how that would work out.

Plenty of options.

You just will really struggle with objective missions unless you start really thinking out of the box.

It wouldnt be hard to scrap the rhinos and foot slog everything as long as you have something to contents/hold objectives that can get there when they need to.

what about the 'haha' srategy. Form an impregnable wall on your own objective - then deep strike in something dead 'ard (terminators) on your enemies objective(s). Even if they're elites, they contest them, so you win.
And then you laugh because it is such a cheap way to play.
That is why it is called the haha srategy
sorry for the wall of text.

UberhAxTHC wrote:I was hoping to try something along a Death Guard footslogging army, as it fits their fluff...in fact, in the last codex, you had restrictions on taking transports for death guard squads. But I don't see how I can win with a bunch of footslogging plague marines.

If you find a way to make it work, let me know. I have about 50 Plague marines made from plastic bitz, plasticard, and greenstuff that I would like to us effectively.

Play Nids lol

In all honesty, the current metagame revolves around mobility. With the limited ability of infantry to move, they need to increase their mobility, and that is through transports. You can go all foot, but then you won't be very successful. Look at nids. They aren't one of the top codexes right now, one reason being that they are lacking in mobility. In contrast, look at Blood Angels. Considered by most to be one of the most competitive codexes right now, one of their troop choices are very mobile, and sacrifice almost nothing for that mobility.

I'm just trying to put it in perspective.

Does running even remotely balance this out in any way? And why is it exactly that everything went mechanized after 5E hit?

Transports are cheap and you can move pretty quickly in them.
Running doesn't really help... it is more of a thing to use if you haven't got anything else to do.

UberhAxTHC wrote:Does running even remotely balance this out in any way? And why is it exactly that everything went mechanized after 5E hit?

Running disallows shooting. Units that run, that want to shoot (Tau Firewarriors, SM devastators, Sternguard), are not doing what they are intended for. So if a units sole purpose is to shoot, when they run they aren't doing their job. And they are effectively worthless for that turn.

DarthLakey wrote:what about the 'haha' srategy. Form an impregnable wall on your own objective - then deep strike in something dead 'ard (terminators) on your enemies objective(s). Even if they're elites, they contest them, so you win.
And then you laugh because it is such a cheap way to play.
That is why it is called the haha srategy
sorry for the wall of text.

Except they'll usually have 3+ turns to wipe those Terminators out, and welp that's a draw.

So how viable is an army of nothing but foot slogging Berzerkers? They don't need to shoot, and could use the same tactics Orks use...run and charge.

Not that viable...
Bezerkers have a lower model count and kinda need the transport.

UberhAxTHC wrote:So how viable is an army of nothing but foot slogging Berzerkers? They don't need to shoot, and could use the same tactics Orks use...run and charge.

Except Berzerkers don't have fleet of foot, nor do they have the ability to absorb fire like Orks, or the sheer weight of numbers.

Footslogging orks can cover 18" on a Waagh, block escape routes for transports, and move-and-fire very well.

Khorne Berzerkers have to be 12" from their opponent at the start of a turn to charge, and most other assault-based armies can do more than that. This means that Khorne Berzerkers will only get a charge after eating a faceful of rapidfire lead from a gunline army.

Leaning towards the DA Ravenwing right now...it seems about as close to what I'm wanting as I can get...

And hardcore convert my own Master of the Ravenwing in a Land Speeder. Even though I was talking down Rhinos, there's something about playing a SC with an AV that draws my attention...especially when he has a retinue...

UberhAxTHC wrote:I can't stand fielding a bunch of Rhinos anymore. It's stupid. I piece together models, convert them, paint them, and when it comes time to play the game, I put a bunch of metal boxes on the table. It's lame. I understand that transports have their place in 40k. But it shouldn't be on every squad in your army. Is there a space marine army that can play reasonably competitive without transports? Because if not, I'm about to start losing a whole lot of games just because I hate Rhinos.

Then just don't field rhino's?

For any army that's still going to rely on tac squads or equivalents (e.g. grey hunters) then Rhino's are a must.

However, you could do something like a Biker army, or Deathwing, or BA's Descent of Angels that don't really rely on mechanized troops. Though that said, many of the Termi armies rely a lot on Land Raiders.


Alternatively, if you wanted to be silly, you could also field a Scout army

Maybe use other models, e.g. these by Ramshackle Games ideal for Death Guard:





Or by Scotia Grendel:



Even the old Rhino has potential in a Nurgle army (WIP pic)

So, what does the SM codex have over the DA codex in terms of a biker / fast army? Can the SM codex make bikers into troops? That's kinda a big deal to me...

UberhAxTHC wrote:So, what does the SM codex have over the DA codex in terms of a biker / fast army? Can the SM codex make bikers into troops? That's kinda a big deal to me...

C:SM can make bikers into troops simply by taking a Captain on a Bike. Additionally C:SM bikes are 25pts instead of 33pts. They lack scout, but have more flexible squad sizes and are wayyyyy cheaper, while being just as fast, just as survivable, and just as killy.

You think taking Shrike to give everything fleet would make footslogging marines any better?

After just a few weeks of playing Razorspam I get where you're coming from. If you're open to other army ideas the easy solution is Necrons. Not only do they have a roughly MEQ statline they have absolutely no transports in the book so you will always see your army on the table (or on the side of it after they've been quickly dispatched in cc).

UberhAxTHC wrote:You think taking Shrike to give everything fleet would make footslogging marines any better?

Probably not a whole lot. Given that everything can Run, the only time Fleet will make a difference is on a turn you want to assault something, which is highly situational.