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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 03:37:33
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Chongara wrote:halonachos wrote:That depends,what do you feel about the Jena 6?
Also, what if you were armed with say... a kitchen knife and the robber had a gun. Let's say that the robber walked by you because you were hidden and you then stabbed the robber in the back.
Would that be manslaughter, murder, or self defense?
I would see it as self defense seeing as though it would've been suicidal to attack the robber head on.
It'd be stupid that is what it'd be. You're hidden and he has a weapon. He wants to take your stuff, not kill you. Suddenly you've thrust a sharp object into his body, and very possibly not killed him and if you haven't he is probably going to fight back after his life is clearly in danger now. On the other hand, remaining hidden (waiting for a chance to escape if possible) means that is almost no chance of being turned on you.
I'm sorry, but take into account the fact that there may be family in the rooms up ahead. I would rather stab someone in the back, which there are many ways to kill a person(kidneys, lungs, spinal cord, liver, etc) than chance them hurting any other members of my family. And if he has a gun or a weapon I think that its safe to say the thief may be willing to hurt, maim, or kill if they plan to bring a weapon into another person's home.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 04:24:02
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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This fantasy people have, of a guy coming into their house, intent on doing harm to their family, where there's no chance to barricade one's self, or simply get out, the only solution is a fight to the death. What is it? Seriously? Where does it come from?
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 04:38:57
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Seeing as though the neighbors across the street where busted for dealing drugs in the same house that there was an attempted murder/suicide, a corner from the house in which a man cut off the head of his own child, less than a quarter mile away from a place where there was a police standoff and a marine had every single one of his weapons stolen from his house midday, I believe I have reason to not call that a fantasy.
The doors inside my house are laughable when it comes to barricading and all of the "good stuff" resides in our bedrooms and the front door cuts the house in half with all of the bedrooms on one side so escape is nearly impossible.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 08:00:56
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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halonachos wrote:Seeing as though the neighbors across the street where busted for dealing drugs in the same house that there was an attempted murder/suicide, a corner from the house in which a man cut off the head of his own child, less than a quarter mile away from a place where there was a police standoff and a marine had every single one of his weapons stolen from his house midday, I believe I have reason to not call that a fantasy.
The doors inside my house are laughable when it comes to barricading and all of the "good stuff" resides in our bedrooms and the front door cuts the house in half with all of the bedrooms on one side so escape is nearly impossible.
Yeah, I'm not arguing against personal protection, I get that. It's not a choice I'd make, but I live in a decent area and have been lucky so far, but I don't think other people are unreasonable for wanting that protection.
It's the bizarre nature of the hypotheticals that get to me, we're talking about a person lying in wait with a knife as a burglar goes past them on the way to their children's room. What is that?
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 08:14:34
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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It's like a bar exam or an ethics question during a med school interview. Hell, look at any aptitude test in any country for any occupation and you will find some kind of odd hypothetical question. It's not an American concept you know.
Although in my case I would have a machete and not a knife. It is safe to assume that most americans have at least a knife in their home.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 08:39:49
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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halonachos wrote:It's like a bar exam or an ethics question during a med school interview. Hell, look at any aptitude test in any country for any occupation and you will find some kind of odd hypothetical question. It's not an American concept you know.
Sure, but I've read the hypotheticals in these cases a lot and they tend to make very similar assumptions - the random evil stranger coming in to the house to commit violence, the impossibility of escape, the need to protect loved ones. They're features that remove complexity from a hypothetical. If those things were unknown in the circumstance it's a more interesting question.
Although in my case I would have a machete and not a knife. It is safe to assume that most americans have at least a knife in their home.
There'd be very few houses in the world without a knife.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 08:39:55
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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sebster wrote:
It's the bizarre nature of the hypotheticals that get to me, we're talking about a person lying in wait with a knife as a burglar goes past them on the way to their children's room. What is that?
An attempt at coercing a 'correct' answer from an otherwise wholly mutable situation. Same as any thought experiment in ethics.
Another famous one:
There's a run away trolley hurtling down a track towards five people. You are on a bridge under which the trolley must pass before reaching the 5 people. You know that if you drop a heavy weight in front of the trolley, it will stop. As luck would have it, there is a very fat man standing just so as to allow you to push him off the bridge; thereby locating him in the trolley's path. He will most certainly die, but the 5 people will be saved.
Should you push the fat man?
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 08:43:23
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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dogma wrote:An attempt at coercing a 'correct' answer from an otherwise wholly mutable situation. Same as any thought experiment in ethics.
Except I'm not convinced it exists as a thought experiment only. I suspect a lot of people out there really believe that regular folk suffer break ins and violent attacks frequently.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 08:44:16
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 08:46:44
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Oh no, neither am I, I think the 'thought experiments' presented in this thread are closer to descriptions of the underlying assumptions of the people posting them than legitimate thought experiments.
They're loaded so as to permit the derogation of anyone who would not make the choice that is assumed to be correct, which is really very boring. Its also the main reason I only take to reading this thread when I'm very bored.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 08:52:39
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I would push the fat man off in the name of the greater good and not even blink twice as he is turned into mush as the trolly plows over him.
Unless of course the 5 people in the trollys path was an all guy/girl band. Then in the name of the greater good I would allow the trolly to end our suffering.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sebster wrote:I suspect a lot of people out there really believe that regular folk suffer break ins and violent attacks frequently.
What??
Who else are we talking about here, if not regular folk?  The common, everyday person IS the person that is the victem here on a daily basis.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/05/27 08:55:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 09:04:51
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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His point is that the chance of being burglarized is very low.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 09:10:04
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So are my chances of being in a head on crash with a moose.... but that doesn't change the fact that I am going to wear my seatbelt regardless.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 09:15:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 09:29:23
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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dogma wrote:Oh no, neither am I, I think the 'thought experiments' presented in this thread are closer to descriptions of the underlying assumptions of the people posting them than legitimate thought experiments.
They're loaded so as to permit the derogation of anyone who would not make the choice that is assumed to be correct, which is really very boring. Its also the main reason I only take to reading this thread when I'm very bored.
Yeah, unfortunately loaded hypotheticals are part of life on the internet.
And yeah, I haven't been drawn to having this conversation yet again. I have read and argued this whole thing a lot of times before - it's a topic where worldviews seemed to get fixed. Automatically Appended Next Post: jp400 wrote:What??
Who else are we talking about here, if not regular folk?  The common, everyday person IS the person that is the victem here on a daily basis.
The number of victims of murder at the hands of strangers is extremely small. When it does occur it is almost always due to a bungled break in, pre-meditated home invasion with lethal intent is incredibly small. As in single digits per year.
Yet that's the most common example used.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 09:29:32
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 10:19:31
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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jp400 wrote:So are my chances of being in a head on crash with a moose.... but that doesn't change the fact that I am going to wear my seatbelt regardless.

I was sure you were going to say you shoot every moose on sight in case  .
In fact..yes..from now we/re going to assume that is what you said.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 12:03:04
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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sebster wrote:This fantasy people have, of a guy coming into their house, intent on doing harm to their family, where there's no chance to barricade one's self, or simply get out, the only solution is a fight to the death. What is it? Seriously? Where does it come from?
Real life.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
halonachos wrote:It's like a bar exam or an ethics question during a med school interview. Hell, look at any aptitude test in any country for any occupation and you will find some kind of odd hypothetical question. It's not an American concept you know.
Although in my case I would have a whirling chainsaw and rocket propelled weiner dog and not a knife. It is safe to assume that most americans have at least a knife in their home.
fixed your typo
Automatically Appended Next Post:
reds8n wrote:jp400 wrote:So are my chances of being in a head on crash with a moose.... but that doesn't change the fact that I am going to wear my seatbelt regardless.

I was sure you were going to say you shoot every moose on sight in case  .
In fact..yes..from now we/re going to assume that is what you said. 
Moose (Meese?) are in Canadia eh! That would be impolite, unless the moose was talking  about hockey in which case its game on.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/05/27 12:08:58
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 12:15:56
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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dogma wrote:sebster wrote:
It's the bizarre nature of the hypotheticals that get to me, we're talking about a person lying in wait with a knife as a burglar goes past them on the way to their children's room. What is that?
An attempt at coercing a 'correct' answer from an otherwise wholly mutable situation. Same as any thought experiment in ethics.
Another famous one:
There's a run away trolley hurtling down a track towards five people. You are on a bridge under which the trolley must pass before reaching the 5 people. You know that if you drop a heavy weight in front of the trolley, it will stop. As luck would have it, there is a very fat man standing just so as to allow you to push him off the bridge; thereby locating him in the trolley's path. He will most certainly die, but the 5 people will be saved.
Should you push the fat man?
In the UK, this is a trolley:
http://thejoytour.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/shopping-trolley-hc-120l-.jpg
Consequently, I spent my time reading this hypothetical situation wondering a) how a trolley could kill 5 people and b) why they didn't just step out of the way.
Then I realised you meant some sort of tram...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 12:26:59
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Frazzled wrote:
Moose (Meese?) are in Canadia eh! That would be impolite, unless the moose was talking  about hockey in which case its game on.
I thought it might be meese as well. Research on google informs me the correct term is "beantlered overlords".
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 12:29:09
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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I for one welcome our new beantlered overlords, and fully recognize their road right of way.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 12:33:01
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
Monarchy of TBD
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A Møøse once bit my sister...
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Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 13:45:55
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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sebster wrote:This fantasy people have, of a guy coming into their house, intent on doing harm to their family, where there's no chance to barricade one's self, or simply get out, the only solution is a fight to the death. What is it? Seriously? Where does it come from?
You didn't read the link I posted, huh?
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 14:07:40
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Stoic Grail Knight
Houston, Texas
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Real world experience.
Hmmm, my apartment was broken into when i was at home, asleep. Fortunately the sound of a pump action shotgun being loaded is the universal sign for get the feth out.
My friends apartment was broken into, in the middle of the day, and he pretty much lost everything. (computer, TV, DVD's all that). Better question there is how did no one notice...
My mom had her house broken into.
Its not as uncommon as people think. 20% (internet soource so take it as you will) of homes are burglarized every year. Thats a 1 in 5 chance your home will be robbed. Now there are things to take into account such as your neighborhood and city but yeah.
How many of those would attack you if you caught them? well I know 1 of the 3 ran like hell, but cant speak for the other two. To me its just not worth the risk, lots of sick people out there.
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Daemons-
Bretonnia-
Orcs n' Goblins- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 14:16:54
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Wicked Warp Spider
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sebster wrote:This fantasy people have, of a guy coming into their house, intent on doing harm to their family, where there's no chance to barricade one's self, or simply get out, the only solution is a fight to the death. What is it? Seriously? Where does it come from?
While I don't agree with a black and white castle doctrine, I believe you're wrong about that, at least where I live. Knoxville is OK right now, but Chattanooga has had a marked increase in gang activity in the last couple years, for whatever reason. While crime related to this activity is generally targeted at other people involved in gang activity, thats 1. Still wrong in the first place. 2. Has gotten innocent people killed. The police have said in a press release that their has been an increase in home invasion related crimes. This isn't a few cases that have been sensationalized. While your risks of being subjected to this sort of crime is still very low, it has increased in that area.
I don't think it is at all unreasonable to keep a weapon in your home for defense if you take the massive responsibility that entails. My disagreement was with certain proposed changes in the law in my state regarding use of force. Automatically Appended Next Post: ShivanAngel wrote:Real world experience.
Hmmm, my apartment was broken into when i was at home, asleep. Fortunately the sound of a pump action shotgun being loaded is the universal sign for get the feth out.
My friends apartment was broken into, in the middle of the day, and he pretty much lost everything. (computer, TV, DVD's all that). Better question there is how did no one notice...
My mom had her house broken into.
Its not as uncommon as people think. 20% (internet soource so take it as you will) of homes are burglarized every year. Thats a 1 in 5 chance your home will be robbed. Now there are things to take into account such as your neighborhood and city but yeah.
How many of those would attack you if you caught them? well I know 1 of the 3 ran like hell, but cant speak for the other two. To me its just not worth the risk, lots of sick people out there.
On the other hand, I dont think that you have a 1 in 5 chance of being invaded. Most people who want to burgle are going to wait till someone isn't home.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 14:40:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 14:44:37
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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halonachos wrote:
I'm sorry, but take into account the fact that there may be family in the rooms up ahead.
That wasn't part of the (which others have pointed out, silly) scenario.
I would rather stab someone in the back, which there are many ways to kill a person(kidneys, lungs, spinal cord, liver, etc) than chance them hurting any other members of my family.
Certainly a Knife can do a lot of damage to a person, it quite easily kill them. However there are a lot of variables that go into that and somebody trained in killing can have a hard enough time putting down a target in a single stroke. I'm most certainly not convinced your average frightened home owner with his pocket knife or something grabbed out of the kitchen is going to end things instantly. There's a pretty good chance of a struggle taking place.
And if he has a gun or a weapon I think that its safe to say the thief may be willing to hurt, maim, or kill if they plan to bring a weapon into another person's home.
Willing, maybe. It can be as much for intimidation factor as anything else. Even if they are willing, they're probably not eager. A burglar wants to steal stuff and get out. Whatever their original attentions with the weapon might have been, once you attack you've turned them deadly.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 14:45:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 14:49:09
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Chongara wrote:
Willing, maybe. It can be as much for intimidation factor as anything else. Even if they are willing, they're probably not eager. A burglar wants to steal stuff and get out. Whatever their original attentions with the weapon might have been, once you attack you've turned them deadly.
It may seem like I'm arguing out of both sides of my mouth, so to speak, but I'm not. In that case, if someone breaks in my home with a gun, then their life is forfeit if I'm armed. That person may have just been trying to intimidate, but I have no way of knowing that. When you bring a gun into play you've just upped the ante as far as it will go. Thats why I say that if you aren't absolutely sure you can fire a weapon at another human being you shouldn't be using one for defense. As soon as that gun comes out someone is going to flee or be seriously hurt or dead.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 15:06:22
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Grignard wrote:Chongara wrote:
Willing, maybe. It can be as much for intimidation factor as anything else. Even if they are willing, they're probably not eager. A burglar wants to steal stuff and get out. Whatever their original attentions with the weapon might have been, once you attack you've turned them deadly.
It may seem like I'm arguing out of both sides of my mouth, so to speak, but I'm not. In that case, if someone breaks in my home with a gun, then their life is forfeit if I'm armed. That person may have just been trying to intimidate, but I have no way of knowing that. When you bring a gun into play you've just upped the ante as far as it will go. Thats why I say that if you aren't absolutely sure you can fire a weapon at another human being you shouldn't be using one for defense. As soon as that gun comes out someone is going to flee or be seriously hurt or dead.
Let's say that between it being dark, the homeowner not being a military sniper, and the invader not standing perfectly still while they line up their shots he's only seriously hurt. He starts discharging his own weapon. At this point the chances of someone other than the home invader or the home defender winding up seriously hurt or dead just increased dramatically.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 15:08:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 15:29:53
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Chongara wrote:Grignard wrote:Chongara wrote:
Willing, maybe. It can be as much for intimidation factor as anything else. Even if they are willing, they're probably not eager. A burglar wants to steal stuff and get out. Whatever their original attentions with the weapon might have been, once you attack you've turned them deadly.
It may seem like I'm arguing out of both sides of my mouth, so to speak, but I'm not. In that case, if someone breaks in my home with a gun, then their life is forfeit if I'm armed. That person may have just been trying to intimidate, but I have no way of knowing that. When you bring a gun into play you've just upped the ante as far as it will go. Thats why I say that if you aren't absolutely sure you can fire a weapon at another human being you shouldn't be using one for defense. As soon as that gun comes out someone is going to flee or be seriously hurt or dead.
Let's say that between it being dark, the homeowner not being a military sniper, and the invader not standing perfectly still while they line up their shots he's only seriously hurt. He starts discharging his own weapon. At this point the chances of someone other than the home invader or the home defender winding up seriously hurt or dead just increased dramatically.
Thats why I said you need to have the proper training and preparation if you're going to do that. I also believe you should get out and call the police if you can, but it might be very difficult to do so. If you can't get out, I'd rather have a gun than not if I were trained, at least that is my opinion.
How big are most rooms in homes? With a full sized handgun I can assure you I can hit someone moving or not that is 10 feet away, even in fear. I have made my choice not to keep my guns loaded for reasons other than that. Furthermore, if you hit someone with a medium or large caliber handgun round ( say at least .380 ACP) with today's ammunition, they're going to be at very least in great pain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 15:35:31
Subject: Re:Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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[DCM]
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I don't know...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 15:48:40
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Stoic Grail Knight
Houston, Texas
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Grignard wrote:Chongara wrote:Grignard wrote:Chongara wrote:
Willing, maybe. It can be as much for intimidation factor as anything else. Even if they are willing, they're probably not eager. A burglar wants to steal stuff and get out. Whatever their original attentions with the weapon might have been, once you attack you've turned them deadly.
It may seem like I'm arguing out of both sides of my mouth, so to speak, but I'm not. In that case, if someone breaks in my home with a gun, then their life is forfeit if I'm armed. That person may have just been trying to intimidate, but I have no way of knowing that. When you bring a gun into play you've just upped the ante as far as it will go. Thats why I say that if you aren't absolutely sure you can fire a weapon at another human being you shouldn't be using one for defense. As soon as that gun comes out someone is going to flee or be seriously hurt or dead.
Let's say that between it being dark, the homeowner not being a military sniper, and the invader not standing perfectly still while they line up their shots he's only seriously hurt. He starts discharging his own weapon. At this point the chances of someone other than the home invader or the home defender winding up seriously hurt or dead just increased dramatically.
Thats why I said you need to have the proper training and preparation if you're going to do that. I also believe you should get out and call the police if you can, but it might be very difficult to do so. If you can't get out, I'd rather have a gun than not if I were trained, at least that is my opinion.
How big are most rooms in homes? With a full sized handgun I can assure you I can hit someone moving or not that is 10 feet away, even in fear. I have made my choice not to keep my guns loaded for reasons other than that. Furthermore, if you hit someone with a medium or large caliber handgun round ( say at least .380 ACP) with today's ammunition, they're going to be at very least in great pain.
OR just use a shotgun, if you miss with that well.... You just suck!
OR if your a really bad shot
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 15:49:47
Daemons-
Bretonnia-
Orcs n' Goblins- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 16:09:01
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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Wicked Warp Spider
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ShivanAngel wrote:Grignard wrote:Chongara wrote:Grignard wrote:Chongara wrote:
Willing, maybe. It can be as much for intimidation factor as anything else. Even if they are willing, they're probably not eager. A burglar wants to steal stuff and get out. Whatever their original attentions with the weapon might have been, once you attack you've turned them deadly.
It may seem like I'm arguing out of both sides of my mouth, so to speak, but I'm not. In that case, if someone breaks in my home with a gun, then their life is forfeit if I'm armed. That person may have just been trying to intimidate, but I have no way of knowing that. When you bring a gun into play you've just upped the ante as far as it will go. Thats why I say that if you aren't absolutely sure you can fire a weapon at another human being you shouldn't be using one for defense. As soon as that gun comes out someone is going to flee or be seriously hurt or dead.
Let's say that between it being dark, the homeowner not being a military sniper, and the invader not standing perfectly still while they line up their shots he's only seriously hurt. He starts discharging his own weapon. At this point the chances of someone other than the home invader or the home defender winding up seriously hurt or dead just increased dramatically.
Thats why I said you need to have the proper training and preparation if you're going to do that. I also believe you should get out and call the police if you can, but it might be very difficult to do so. If you can't get out, I'd rather have a gun than not if I were trained, at least that is my opinion.
How big are most rooms in homes? With a full sized handgun I can assure you I can hit someone moving or not that is 10 feet away, even in fear. I have made my choice not to keep my guns loaded for reasons other than that. Furthermore, if you hit someone with a medium or large caliber handgun round ( say at least .380 ACP) with today's ammunition, they're going to be at very least in great pain.
OR just use a shotgun, if you miss with that well.... You just suck!
OR if your a really bad shot
When I took a handgun class they talked about some knucklehead who had a pistol grip shotgun who missed an intruder four (!) times with it. Of course he was also using number 8 bird.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/27 16:13:58
Subject: Why do Americans *really* love guns?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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in close the spread pattern's less than the size of your fist. But man what a fist.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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