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Dan the Crusader wrote:With unlimited reinforcements neither side would be able to win. Regardless of who had superior tech or not if there at that many soldiers from both sides it would simply turn into a stalemate. If however there was no way to bring in reinforcements due to no space ships that would be a diff story as it would require different tactics than simply there is the enemy throw yourselves at them, which both sides seem to employ.

Agreed, although Palps would just destroy the planet, hell he tricked the bothans into committing genocide on the Camas, just becuase they disagreed with him. He is that brutal.

Dan the Crusader wrote:A fairer situation would be along the lines of a single IG army vs a single Clone army.
I dont know what the structure of IG armies are but using a SW Systems army consisting of 2 Sector Armies (294,912 troops) led by a High Jedi General.
I dunno what the numbers of the IG would be but this would at least provide a decent comparison instead of 2 unlimited numbers armies.

True this would be a fairer assessment. Although it would not be just one Jedi master, but multiple Jedi assigned to that army, masters, knight and padawans.

Dan the Crusader wrote:Another interesting situation would be a SM Legion vs a SW Systems army.
The SM, say the Ultramarines including primarch Roboute Guillaume would be a tough call.

This would be more interesting, true. Although a SM Chapter would lose. I seriously doubt that 1000 Marines are equal to 294,000 Clone troopers, with all their equipment, and accompanying Jedi.

Rowboat Girlyman vs Mace Windu... good fight.

There are no Jedi. There is no spoon. This is the Galactic Empire.

I want to see vader vs. leaman russ and lion el v. Exar kunn

Jedi / Sith are an entirely different matter. And I wonder how Jedi / Sith would really fare in the 40k universe where they had to contend with the Warp instead of hte Force.

Even better, I wonder how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they had the relatively benign Force to deal with instead of the maliciousness of the Warp. Battle Meditation is an advanced, rarely learned power amongst Jedis, but the equivalent in the Imperium is a fairly standard application of psychic power.

Just thinking about how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they did not have to fear daemonic possession or the other side effects of using the energy of the Warp? One properly trained Battle Psyker could take on hundreds, if not thousands of clones by him/herself. They could and probably would be the equal or superior to the Jedi / Sith.

And if the Jedi had to deal with the Warp instead of the Force, I'm fairly certain it'd be a perfect recipe for another Jedi civil war. Chaos is far more subversive than the Dark Side of the Force.

It becomes bleaker for the Empire assuming there's only the two Sith Lords at the head of the Empire and no others (after all, they're going after and killing force sensitives they find). They are powerful and skilled, yes, but against the Imperium backed by unhindered psychic power? They're no match.

Klawz wrote:There are no Jedi. There is no spoon. This is the Galactic Empire.

Uhhh... can you pay attention to the thread? Please.

Clone army from the clone wars time period is perfectly acceptable.
Hence lots of Jedi and no Sith.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Jedi / Sith are an entirely different matter. And I wonder how Jedi / Sith would really fare in the 40k universe where they had to contend with the Warp instead of hte Force.

Even better, I wonder how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they had the relatively benign Force to deal with instead of the maliciousness of the Warp. Battle Meditation is an advanced, rarely learned power amongst Jedis, but the equivalent in the Imperium is a fairly standard application of psychic power.

There is no equivalent of Battle Meditation in the Imperium. If a psyker even tried something similiar they would be killed immediately. Unless you don't understand what BM actually is.

Melissia wrote:Just thinking about how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they did not have to fear daemonic possession or the other side effects of using the energy of the Warp? One properly trained Battle Psyker could take on hundreds, if not thousands of clones by him/herself. They could and probably would be the equal or superior to the Jedi / Sith.

They would be no more powerful then any other force user. Taking on 100s if not 1000s is laughable.
i seriously doubt that a psyker in the GE would even be close to a jedi or sith.

Melissia wrote:And if the Jedi had to deal with the Warp instead of the Force, I'm fairly certain it'd be a perfect recipe for another Jedi civil war. Chaos is far more subversive than the Dark Side of the Force.

Incorrect. The dark side is something you have to watch out for all the time... not so with Chaos.

Melissia wrote:It becomes bleaker for the Empire assuming there's only the two Sith Lords at the head of the Empire and no others (after all, they're going after and killing force sensitives they find). They are powerful and skilled, yes, but against the Imperium backed by unhindered psychic power? They're no match.

Havoc13 wrote:Incorrect. The dark side is something you have to watch out for all the time... not so with Chaos.

Incorrect. Chaos is something a Psyker has to constantly be vigilant about, just like the dark side.

Exactly. -.- Havoc you may bring great points up but you cannot say those if you have no evidence and no one else to completely back you up.
AND I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE CLONE VS Space Marine Chapter.
OK!
Aurora Chapter vs Clones. Aurora Chapter wins thanks to thousands of heavy weaponry. OK 1,000 space marines is a lot look at the Astral Knights they pwned the Necrons. millions of them. If we are talking game terms then yes. But fluff wise NO.
See space marines are no push overs. Not only that but space marines have a lot of scouts there are not just 100 of them. That is complete BS. lots of them are in training. Except for blood ravens they are just stupid.
1 Space marine can take on hundreds of orcs by himself. READ THE Fing fluff before you make that assumption.

Havoc13 wrote:[snip]

1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.

2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.

3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...

Completely true. Just look at a most heretics most of them are psykers because one moment their will gave in. And Demons took their soul. See the Dark Side you can be forgiven for. Hersey and killing innocents for personnel and just for fun is not forgiveable. All humans have their flaws. Except Space Marines. Because they are not human.
The only ones that were human were the legions.

That's not really a good argument, as Dark Jedi and Sith (not the same thing) have done some pretty horrible things. Like wiping out all life on planets just because they were annoyed that the one person they were chasing got away.

Asherian Command wrote:Completely true. Just look at a most heretics most of them are psykers because one moment their will gave in. And Demons took their soul. See the Dark Side you can be forgiven for. Hersey and killing innocents for personnel and just for fun is not forgiveable. All humans have their flaws. Except Space Marines. Because they are not human.
The only ones that were human were the legions.

Sorry most heretics are not psykers or the Imperium would be in HUGE trouble. Most heretics are simply people or guardsmen who have been corrupted by the allure of Chaos. Demon possession rarely ends well for the (psyker) host and they almost always act as a portal for more Demons before/while dying a grisly death. SMs do in fact have flaws, just look at Dark Angels, the inner darkness/untrustworthyness from our primarch is just one example.

Dark angels lol are the joke of the 40k universe.

Asherian Command wrote:Dark angels lol are the joke of the 40k universe.

Erm, they are the joke of 40k players.

Its hard to compare psykers to jedi or sith because they ase different sources for their power.

The source of their ower may be the reason why one is stronger and the other weaker. And the drawbacks balance out the strngths, it may be true that psykers are stronger but if they didnt have to worry about demonic possesion then they wouldnt be using the warp and then that would make them weaker that is the point of their warp powers. The force draws energy from all living things but doesnt have the drawback of demonic possesion but it appears to be weaker. If force users were drawing power from the warp then they would be stronger and would just be like psykers and would have the same problems.

If Jedi were in the war then they would be using their power differently than the sith, the Jedi would be healing and doing things that help their troops, whilst the sith would be focusing on destroying everything and gaining more power. Its likely that sith would try and control the warp to become stronger but would inevitably fall to the forces of chaos due to their thirst for power.

I wasnt saying a single chapter of marines but a legion 10,000. And the Ultramarines were just an example it could be Imperial fists or someone else who may or may not be better than them. Even a Fallen Legion would pose an interesting hypothetical due to them not really being concered with the warp and their psykers being more powerful.
So it would be like 10,000 marines with all their equiptment against 294,00 clones and their equiptment. I think that would be very close to call.

Melissia wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:[snip]

1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.

2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.

3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...

It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...

This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?


Whatever.

i don't believe that for a moment. the imperium is stagnant at best while the galactic empire is ever moving forward with new tech, new weapons, new armor, and new strategies in order to deal with new threats

Havoc13 wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:[snip]

1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.

2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.

3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...

It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...

This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?


Whatever.

Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.

Klawz wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:[snip]

1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.

2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.

3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...

It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...

This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?


Whatever.

Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.

except we are talking about a bloody ground war, not a space war. ground war both sides are about even and it really depends on who struck first. space war on the other hand.... empire beats imperium with a 2000 meter pole

Klawz wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:[snip]

1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.

2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.

3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...

It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...

This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?


Whatever.

Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.

Nice, You can't come up with a legitimate response so you write a childish response.

Read something besides the over the top black library works.

Havoc13 wrote:

Klawz wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:[snip]

1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.

2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.

3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...

It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...

This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?


Whatever.

Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.

Nice, You can't come up with a legitimate response so you write a childish response.

Read something besides the over the top black library works.

I believe he is agreeing with you by listing some things others have said in support of SW and aserting that you are not reading what the other SW posters are posting.

Read something besides the over the top expanded universe books?

Havoc13 wrote:
Read something besides the over the top black library works.

I do. Terry Prachett really is a good author, isn't he?

CrazyThang wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:

Klawz wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:[snip]

1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.

2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.

3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...

It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...

This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?


Whatever.

Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.

Nice, You can't come up with a legitimate response so you write a childish response.

Read something besides the over the top black library works.

I believe he is agreeing with you by listing some things others have said in support of SW and aserting that you are not reading what the other SW posters are posting.

Read something besides the over the top expajavascript:emoticon ended universe books?

Can you guys actually post legitimite information.
its kinda stupid if you guys don't have support for your information for both sides. This is suppose to be a well rounded disscussion. Meaning that we need to be a little more Considerate of other posters. In that I mean stop reading the first quotes. I can't support either one. I love star wars and 40k. But if they teamed up they would pwn everything .
But still the possiblities of them fighting each other are higher than teaming up with each other. The Ground war is the ONLY ELEMENT OF THIS DISCUSSION NOT THE SPACE WAR.
If you want to make a thread of the Space war make it. But everyone is getting quite touchy at this subject.
Also The Empire has alot of great machines only thing is that they would be fighting legions of Guardsmen.
Also if it was the Old Republic i would say that they would be fighting each other for a long time. And is it just me or is it that the Star Wars races have had the same weaponry for a long time?

Not quoting that whole thing.

@ Asherian Com.
No offense, but a lot of what you have posted has lacked evidence as well.

Well I really don't care who wins. And I don't get offended by posting its the internet its already offensive to everyone.

Asherian Command wrote:Well I really don't care who wins. And I don't get offended by posting its the internet its already offensive to everyone.

Nor do I, but we need to take a technological/strategic/manpower stance on these issues when debating who would win. Biases should be left at home, which is why I am not going to post who I want to win, but rather who would win with their given technology. Speaking in a strictly ground war I would have to say IoM would get a minor victory. I don't really want to rehash what has already been said, but I agree with a great deal of it (on both sides, it's a tough choice in the end).

Yeah I would agree. The imperium has many regiments. That they can throw at them. not only that but we are talking about the imperium having titans, space marines, steel legions, and guardsmen. That means that they have all the weaponry they need to bring down the Empire. Not only that but we are talking frontal assualts and all out war. No Stealthy Jedi has will escape a thousand lasguns, no matter how good they are, EXCEPT IF IT IS STAR KILLER! Not only that but considering that the Empire is pumping men out a fast rate it takes time for them to deploy reinforcements. Not only that but The Imperium has batteries that have been known to take out battle barges. So the Reinforcements for the Empire would be swiftly taken out by anti-air forces. Not only that but the air war would be pretty devastating to both sides. We can not forget the Thunderbolts and their very fast movements. They are quick. And we can't forget Cobras of the Imperium. Which are almost as fast as a Eldar Vampire. So give or take the imperium has more powerful and shielded air vehicles.

DO NOT FORGET THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT!

But the empire on the other hand could beable to bring the imperium to its knees thanks to pure numbers. But facing a titian they would have trouble. But not that 45 AT-AT's won't solve!
The empire has Tie Fighters which they can build large amounts. And ever since they can fight in the atmosphere and can put up a pretty good fight and also be able to outmaneuver an Imperial Pilot. But only problem is that the Empire can't shot very well. I know they did that for Blockbuster hits but ok!
Anyway the Empire also has an advantage of pure numbers in which they all have a light focused weapon which is sorta like a lasgun. But I can't forget Dark Troopers.

Dark Troopers are not the equalivites of a Space Marine Not only that but the Imperium has better elite units that are rapidly deployed. I'm also talking about the Space Marines in fluff terms. In which they can take on hundreds of people by themselves.

The Empire has superior production in that they can build faster. True. But they have not improved on their Technology in the past 230,000 years. Not since the Old Republic. They are more Stylish compared to the Imperium. But Relatively speaking they are almost exactly the same.

But this is just a thought So don't tear at me for just showing points that are supported by films and books. And I have read all the New Republic Books! And the 40k books. I'm better at 40k lore more than star wars lore.

But the empire on the other hand could beable to bring the imperium to its knees thanks to pure numbers.

The other way around, actually.

Tell me, how many stormtroopers are there in the Empire?

Billions of Guardsmen are drafted every year from single hive planets just as a way of those planets paying their taxes. And there are quite a few of these hive planets.

I told you i'm rusty on Star Wars Lore. I'm from the Warhammer side of the family. The other side know everything about star wars. Except the one brainic that does is in Germany. -.-
Anyway thanks for the heads up. in my mind the Empire could quickly bring in forces. Compared to the imperium.

But the Imperium would bring in MORE forces.

The fluff has described 250 million Guardsmen bbeing deployed as part of a planetary assault. As just a single wave in a somewhat unimportant subsector.

Melissia wrote:But the Imperium would bring in MORE forces.

The fluff has described 250 million Guardsmen bbeing deployed as part of a planetary assault. As just a single wave in a somewhat unimportant subsector.

Thats alot of lasguns...and meat for the meat grinder!

Anyway can anyone provide me with sources showing the SW are actually improving in terms of tech? it seems from the old republic trailers their weapons and building (no defense value whatsoever) remained the same after thousands of years...Plus Coruscant being the seat of the galaxy was so easily attacked by the sith empire en masse with no problem...and in the star wars revenge of the sith it looks so easy attacking it again after thousands of years since the old republic (no improvement after being attacked so many times?)...i dont see any advances in terms of defence against ships or armies intending to invade a SW planet