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Fateweaver wrote:Not to steal your thunder Buffo but I played an apoc game this weekend. I won't go into details but the archon is effin' brutal.

Combat drugs; soul trap; huskblade. I killed a GK Grand Master and trapped his soul to get to S8 (CD roll gave me +1S) and then in a very impressive showing he took the last 2 wounds off Lysander a few turns later and again trapped his soul. He then went on to kill a predator, a landraider and a leman russ before his shadow field finally gave out from a lascannon. At S10 he was just ripping tanks apart like they were made of paper and not ceramite and steel.

Archons are beasts and I know I won't build a list without one (excepting of course pure Coven lists).

Was also very impressed with the Reavers. 6 turbo-boosting over IG in cover mess them up nicely and the 3+ cover for turbo-boosting makes them fairly resilient.

nice, very nice.

you've reassured me with regards to the Reaver's survivability.

so when are you going to play someone good?

Mr. Smitty, there's really no need to pop in and make a comment that, at face value, is really nothing but a provocative and rather cheap shot at other players. It adds nothing to any discussion and is therefore soemwhat worthless.

Hmm I cant keep track of all the reports, has there been a unit which you havent tried yet? (I think either of the pseudo flyers, cronos, something like that)

He's tried the Chronus IIRC.

I don't think Buffo's tried either of the flyers yet and I can't recall seeing Mandrakes or several of the special characters?

Smitty0305 wrote:so when are you going to play someone good?

Have you seen all the reports? Many of my opponents are very good, and have won tournaments. I am just not sucha push over when it comes to 40k

kenshin620 wrote:Hmm I cant keep track of all the reports, has there been a unit which you havent tried yet? (I think either of the pseudo flyers, cronos, something like that)

Just Dave wrote:I don't think Buffo's tried either of the flyers yet and I can't recall seeing Mandrakes or several of the special characters?

Here are the units I have not tried yet...

Decapitator
Succubus

Harlequins
Mandrakes

Voidraven

I think Harlies are worth running out just as bodyguards for a WWP.

I should be getting my third (and if lucky) fourth games with my Harlequin DE army today. Speaking of the Archon, mine was pretty good in my first game (against Chaos), then got punched in the face by a powerclaw and died on his second save (turn 1 or 2) against a unit of Nobs in the second game. I was a sad panda.

Mannahnin wrote:I think Harlies are worth running out just as bodyguards for a WWP.

Really? huh... I assume it is for the Shadowseer and the Veil of Tears?

That is such an novel concept... I think I may have to try this...

How is the WWP Harly army doing so far? Are you able to deploy out the WWP on turn 1 without incident in your games?

Yep.

I'm 1 & 1 so far, major win against Chaos run by a fairly new-ish player, bad loss against BW orks run by a very good player.

No problem at all getting my portals out. I attach one of the WWP Haemoncs to my Harlies, and one to a squad of Trueborn in a Venom. That way I can drop off two in different spots.

Here's the list I've been using so far:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/329692.page#2180747

Archon with Huskblade, Shadowfield, Soul Trap, Combat Drugs - 145
2 Haemonculi with Webway Portals, Liquifiers & Venom Blades, one with Animus Vitae- 195

6 Harlequins with Kisses, Shadowseer, 2 Fusion Pistols - 182
3 Trueborn with 3x Blaster - 81
Venom with Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon - 65
3 Trueborn with 3x Blaster - 81
Venom with Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon - 65

10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix with Blast Pistol & Agonizer - 165
10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix with Blast Pistol & Agonizer - 165
10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix with Blast Pistol & Agonizer - 165
5 Wyches with Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix with Blast Pistol & Agonizer - 105
Venom w/Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon - 65

5 Scourges with 2x Heat Lance, 3x Shardcarbine - 134
5 Scourges with 2x Heat Lance, 3x Shardcarbine - 134

Chronos Torture Engine w/Spirit Vortex - 100
1849

As an Eldar player I quite frankly hate that they put Harlies in this codex.

rivers64 wrote:As an Eldar player I quite frankly hate that they put Harlies in this codex.

As an old Harly player, I hate that GW nerfed Harlies, and shoe horned them into the Eldar book.

I feel your pain brother! I want my 3rd ed Harly army rules back!

BuFFo wrote:

rivers64 wrote:As an Eldar player I quite frankly hate that they put Harlies in this codex.

As an old Harly player, I hate that GW nerfed Harlies, and shoe horned them into the Eldar book.

I feel your pain brother! I want my 3rd ed Harly army rules back!

Agreed. And then they stuck them in with dark eldar just so that the eldar players can feel twice as screwed.

As someone who was first turned onto 40k by the Harlequin army list and fluff in White Dwarf 105, I LOVE that Harlequins are in both codices. The studio's been talking about how Harlies recruit from the best warriors of both Craftworld and Dark Eldar, and don't care about how evil the DE are, for at least six years.

I'm bummed that Harlies aren't as strong as they were in 4th ed, but sadly they were a victim of the rending nerf. Hopefully next time around they'll get better.

My third league game with the harlies resulted in a 20/0 win against Imperial Fists. My opponent conceded on turn 5 with just Lysander and three GK terminators left alive. Archon did quite well this time, aiding a unit of Wyches to kill a unit of assault terms and a terminator librarian, and Stun a landraider so a second squad of wyches could finish it off while they moved on to juicier targets. I was also a bit fortunate with Reserves, having everything (20 Wyches, 10 Scourges, 5 Wyches in Venom) but my Chronos show up from Reserve on turn 2.

It's still just a slap in the face to eldar players.

I disagree. I think if anyone's getting a slap, it's the DE players. They didn't get the unit until AFTER it was nerfed. Mostly it gets ignored in DE armies and winds up just being there for fluff/symmetry.

I don't believe they will get any better. I'm afraid that come Codex Craftworld Eldar, GW will just copy-paste the entry either from C: DE or the old Eldar codex.

Mostly because that is how GW rolls, but also because it would require GW to justify/explain the reason for the difference between "evil" Harlequins and "good" Harlequins.

I thought the same thing Steelmage99...but at the same time this is the same GW that has Dark Angels getting 4++ Storm Shields and Grey Knights getting Assault 3 Assault Cannons. If they did make them different in the next Eldar codex, I don't think GW would even try to explain the reason for the difference, they would just do it and then ignore any questions or complaints.

Thanks for doing this, Buffo - your reports are fast becoming required watching for me!

I've had Dark Eldar for quite a while now, but took a year or two off in the middle, so I'm almost coming in to them fresh, and your reports are great - it's brilliant to see so many batreps with such a variety of units. Like you, there isn't really a codex entry I don't like (I've even had good times with Mandrakes this time round!) so I look forward to trying them all - it's going to take me some time to actually purchase them all, though!

Unfortunately, in my last battle (D.E. vs 'Nids), my Archon severely underperformed - she had an agoniser, shadowfield and combat drugs, and was running with some wyches. The wyches headed one way to take on some 'stealers, while my archon headed the other way to take on a broodlord and one lonely 'stealer who had received vast amounts of splinter fire. Unfortunately, she failed her second shadowfield save and was torn to shreds by an incoming hive tyrant. *le sigh*

Given the update gap in Dark Eldar, I would have referenced the Eldar book myself for the entry if a player wanted to use them. This lets them both be updated at the same time or make it similar to the old allying rules that just says ' a Dark Eldar army may include a unit of harlequins from codex Eldar'

When the rules shift again in 6th edition, harlies may get better..?

rivers64 wrote:As an Eldar player I quite frankly hate that they put Harlies in this codex.

You need to check up on your Harlequin fluff. There has never been anything in the fluff that states that Harlequins were some sort of sub-set of Craftworld Eldar. They perform their duties for all Eldar, whether they are Craftworld, Exodite, or Dark. There was no reason for Harlequins to be in the Eldar codex and not in the Dark Eldar codex.

Just because there's no reason against it doesn't mean it has to happen. I wasn't arguing with the fluff behind it, just the slap-in-the-face feeling I get from it as an Eldar player.

rivers64 wrote:Just because there's no reason against it doesn't mean it has to happen. I wasn't arguing with the fluff behind it, just the slap-in-the-face feeling I get from it as an Eldar player.

What GW did was respect Eldar players by not making the DE version of Harlies better in any way. You didn't get a slap in the face, but rather respect by Phil Kelly, as he loves both Eldar races.

Honestly, it almost even annoys me that the harlies aren't better because it means they most likely won't be upgrade next Eldar codex realize. Also, the reason I'm annoyed is because DE have so much now they do not need harlequins at all.

Play them both. The cool thing about the DE is most of the units have a playability about them and do a good job with rules backing up their fluff.

Hoping a new Eldar codex offers some of the same.

any new games coming soon?

Painnen wrote:any new games coming soon?

Actually working on two tonight...

rivers64 wrote:Honestly, it almost even annoys me that the harlies aren't better because it means they most likely won't be upgrade next Eldar codex realize. Also, the reason I'm annoyed is because DE have so much now they do not need harlequins at all.

You're right. Harlies are fun to see in the codex, but I think they should have just had their own .pdf army and be done with it.

The Citadel Journal list back in 3rd ed was just so bad, though (although I still fondly remember it as the origin of the Venom). I was really happy to see them get some official rules, particularly since it justified Jes giving us the gorgeous newer sculpts.

Okay, after all this Harlequin talk, now you've GOT to field them in a game.

Mannahnin wrote:Okay, after all this Harlequin talk, now you've GOT to field them in a game.

Ugh.... grumble grumble FINE you win, I will... lol

rivers64 wrote:Just because there's no reason against it doesn't mean it has to happen. I wasn't arguing with the fluff behind it, just the slap-in-the-face feeling I get from it as an Eldar player.

I feel like its a slap-in-the-face when I have to play against SM, since you know, if fluff doesn't matter, there is no reason they should be seven feet tall, and have such good armor >____>

Even though fluff isn't the end all be all of the game, the codexes SHOULD reflect the fluff, otherwise the entire premise of the game doesn't matter. Might as well not give anything names, just have everything be stat-sets with blocks of plastic as characters.

Sunday will see FIVE new battle reports up!

Get your greedy mits ready

Looking forward to it! Hope the finals went well

Any way you can play a Black Templar list, I am curious to see how eldar preform when their main anti-tank is nerfed by the blessed hull rule, supposedly new GK book will have something similar so.