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The Sisters of Battle aren't the "ultimate anti-psyker".

That was the Sisters of Silence, who as an organization (seemingly) no longer exist.

I'm confused.

Some ideas from WHFB could be good, IMO. Movement value would favour diversity (for example, eldar banshees move the same as an ork, what seems weird to me). Percentage army lists help to create armies with lots of little units. Who wants 3 sentinels in the same squadron if an immobilised means destroyed? They can die easily enought without help XD. Imagine Raven Guard armies with a few 5 men scout squads supported by lots of 5 men assault marines. The current FOC system makes small units unuseful.

About chaos....a mech dragon, or a "chaos answer to dreadknight" are too vague concepts. There are many things they can create to fulfill these roles, so I'm aware they choose an option I don't like (not meaning a bad option in general). Dreadnought still in is good, no doubt. Too iconic to be deleted. However it seems they are trying to enlarge the overall scale of the miniatures, makong them more credible when compared to infantry (Trygon, Triach stalker). They can't eliminate dreadnought, but maybe they are trying to migrate to something bigger and they start with chaos.

Kanluwen wrote:The Sisters of Battle aren't the "ultimate anti-psyker".

That was the Sisters of Silence, who as an organization (seemingly) no longer exist.

Currently they and the witch hunters are the most anti-psyker organization within the Imperium, and the closest thing that can match it is the Gray Knights, but they are more specific towards anti-daemon, so they have anti-psyker plans, but Witch Hunters and the SoB actively seek out heretics and psykers in general.

I could have sworn the sisters of silence still existed, what changed?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Sisters of Battle aren't the "ultimate anti-psyker".

That was the Sisters of Silence, who as an organization (seemingly) no longer exist.

Currently they and the witch hunters are the most anti-psyker organization within the Imperium, and the closest thing that can match it is the Gray Knights, but they are more specific towards anti-daemon, so they have anti-psyker plans, but Witch Hunters and the SoB actively seek out heretics and psykers in general.

The Witch Hunters and Sororitas actively seek out heretics and "witches". There's a slight difference between those the Imperium labels "witches" and the catch-all term "psykers".
"Witches" might be psykers or they might be your average joe who has made deals with a Power(capital P) for powers beyond the scope of a mortal.

Oh, and mutants.

I could have sworn the sisters of silence still existed, what changed?

We don't exactly know what happened to them, but we have no canonical mention of them surviving past the Heresy. We will likely see it explored in the "Garro" thread of the Horus Heresy, but for the time being:
There are no Sisters of Silence in the 41st Millenium.

Kanluwen wrote:Since the Grey Knights got the Dreadknight, Chaos gets the Hopeknight!

No it'll be specific for the Night Lords - the Nightknight.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Since the Grey Knights got the Dreadknight, Chaos gets the Hopeknight!

No it'll be specific for the Night Lords - the Nightknight.

The Ironknight!

Stop before someone mentions Slaanesh

Kroothawk wrote:Stop before someone mentions Slaanesh

Nah, I'm more waiting for the Black Legion version of the 'Knight. It'll spawn endless Monty Python jokes, I'm sure

Cheexsta wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Stop before someone mentions Slaanesh

Nah, I'm more waiting for the Black Legion version of the 'Knight. It'll spawn endless Monty Python jokes, I'm sure

'Tis but a scratch!

Well, I'm pretty sure GW signed an exclusive deal with DC comics, so they're going to give it a cape and call it the DarkKnight.

I actually hope that, like the defiler, this daemon-knight anti-dreadknight isn't a god specific unit. That part of chaos is interesting and all but undivided needs more attention and allows a wider use by a greater variety of armies.

Gargantuan wrote:I hope they take as much as possible from WFB. To hit modifiers, movement value instead of fifty different movement rules, a good armour system and % based armies.

You mean like 2nd edition?

Hlain Larkin mk2 wrote:To hit modifiers and different armour system will not be a part of 40K, it's one of the ways the systems are different, In fantasy you have modifiers to hit meanwhile in 40K you have cover saves. And for armour 40K has the AP system and Fantasy has modifiers. Unless it becomes WHFB in space these changes won't happen. Different move valuse might work but would require a new FAQ for every codex.

It's been done already!

Incidentally, the switch from 2nd to 3rd edition was pretty unpopular, even though I can understand why they made the changes they did. I believe the most common phrase used at the time was 'dumbing down' and a large number of people (at least from my experience) stopped playing when 3rd edition was released. Me too in fact, despite my love for the miniatures and background, I just couldn't abide playing with such a bastard, stunted version of the game, especially with the second edition so fresh in my mind. I continued to play 2nd edition with my mates for a while after, and eventually we drifted away from it.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Necromunda's appeal is down to the rule-set it uses, which are a slightly altered version of 2nd edition. The rules are just so much more intuitive, a lot less abstract, than 3rd edition 40k. People being shot as they run between buildings, throwing grenades through a window, a turret on a tank blowing off an landing on someone. Most gamers love that kind of stuff, and 3rd edition removed all of it, I'm guessing in an effort to make the game more accessible to a younger audience? The whole thing then became more abstract, to the point where it felt like it was straddling skirmish and platoon level gaming systems, but not really getting the best aspects from either one.

The only real complaint I think has any foundation of reality, rather than people just towing the company line of 'newer automatically means better', was the CC system (which was rather involved). But even then once you got used to it, you could wizz through combats in no time. It had a far more personal nature to it - your Striking Scorpion using her mandibles to blast one IG in the face, then parrying with her chainblade while killing another with a shuriken pistol. The whole thing was a lot more cinematic, and less abstract. '6 hours to play a game' I find incredible, and I can only summise that it is someone not remembering correctly. We used to play mammoth Apocalypse-size battles on 12ft wide tables and they didn't take that amount of time.

Pacific wrote:

Gargantuan wrote:I hope they take as much as possible from WFB. To hit modifiers, movement value instead of fifty different movement rules, a good armour system and % based armies.

You mean like 2nd edition?

Yes! 2nd Ed is pretty much better in every area except maybe the clunky melee combat.

If they start to use Fantasy's magic system, I weep. Tears of blood.

It'll slow the game down SO MUCH.

Then again, so would hit modifiers, armour modifiers and random charges.

Personally, if they just made 5th, but evened out vehicles, I'd be totally fine.

puma713 wrote:New rumors up on Bell:

Snip...

You can read for yourself here: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/04/40k-rumors-on-chaos-marines-and-6th.html

I always have sucha difficult time trying to figure out if BigRed is a rumor compiler (like Kroot) or a Rumor Mounger (like Harry); very seldom does he quote sources, so I suppose one could infer that he is Rumor Mounger.

He is a rumour compiler not quoting his sources
And once in a while, I post original rumours as well.

Kroothawk wrote:He is a rumour compiler not quoting his sources

Ah, that is kinda frustrating. Do you happen to know who he is quoting in this instance...I can't seam to find those rumors on Warseer

Kroothawk wrote:I post original rumours as well.

Oh, I honestly wouldn't have known, unless you specificaly call it out in the thread. I usually assume you are quoting sources you have previously quoted numerous times in the same thread.

Like when someone asks for the 10th time if Tau are going to be in the starter set and you just state no.

I'd heard that the starter set was going to be Eldar v. Chaos Marines, but that's an old rumor that everyone's probably heard already. I wouldn't bet in it not having Ultramarines written into it somewhere...

AnomanderRake wrote:I'd heard that the starter set was going to be Eldar v. Chaos Marines, but that's an old rumor that everyone's probably heard already. I wouldn't bet in it not having Ultramarines written into it somewhere...

I believe Dark Angels for the starter are as close as you'll ever get to a confirmation from rumours. The new DA minis with DA-iconography sculpted on are already in the new paint-starter-box. Add to that the DA-White Dwarf spine. Dark Angels are almost certainly the new "face" of Space Marines in 6th. Most rumours seem to point towards DA vs. Chaos (with some cultist/non-PA units) in the starter.

Pacific wrote:
I'm pretty sure a lot of Necromunda's appeal is down to the rule-set it uses, which are a slightly altered version of 2nd edition. The rules are just so much more intuitive, a lot less abstract, than 3rd edition 40k. People being shot as they run between buildings, throwing grenades through a window, a turret on a tank blowing off an landing on someone. Most gamers love that kind of stuff, and 3rd edition removed all of it, I'm guessing in an effort to make the game more accessible to a younger audience? The whole thing then became more abstract, to the point where it felt like it was straddling skirmish and platoon level gaming systems, but not really getting the best aspects from either one.

I love playing Necro, the systems works so well but it's a question of using the right tool. if they were to re-hash 2nd ed styled rules the game would slow down so much as the rules work best at the skirmish level whereas the current rules does well for larger engagments

wyomingfox wrote:Ah, that is kinda frustrating. Do you happen to know who he is quoting in this instance...I can't seam to find those rumors on Warseer

OK, seems this time he had a birdy. But most of the time BolS gets it half right from other forums.

wyomingfox wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:I post original rumours as well.

Oh, I honestly wouldn't have known, unless you specificaly call it out in the thread. I usually assume you are quoting sources you have previously quoted numerous times in the same thread.

I usually quote sources. But sometimes, if I get direct info, it is better not to make a big thing about it, as the Inquisition also reads Dakka

Kroothawk wrote:I usually quote sources. But sometimes, if I get direct info, it is better not to make a big thing about it, as the Inquisition also reads Dakka

Oh, I didn't mean for people to quote thier private sources . Just a "My sources tell me" clause helps to alleviate confusion for me...cause I am old and easily confused . It would be much easier for me to take Big Red seriously as a rumor compiler if he did a better job either quoting his online sources or clarifying that the sources are his private ones.

The only things I hate about Necromunda are Overwatch and falling down when being hit, even if not wounded.

Those are bogus to me.

Can you imagine guard platoons on overwatch on a 40k table? You would have to add so much cover that everyone practically has a 4+ cover at all times.

You'd need to reduce cover to a 4+ / 5+ or something.

Did I mention I hate overwatch?

Well, I hate to say it but I think you are probably in the minority there !

There were quite a lot of smaller rules added to Necromunda (such as falling over when being shot - which makes perfect sense by the way!) which wouldn't translate into 40k.

About something being bogus, and adding layers of abstraction, try this one for size: An assault squad with jet packs flies over some trees, and lands in front of an enemy squad. That squad just stand there doing nothing, while the assault squad charges in to attack them. It's absolutely nuts if you think about it!

I don't think it would be too difficult to introduce some kind of 'defensive reaction to charges' mechanic in 40k.

Pacific wrote:Well, I hate to say it but I think you are probably in the minority there !

There were quite a lot of smaller rules added to Necromunda (such as falling over when being shot - which makes perfect sense by the way!) which wouldn't translate into 40k.

About something being bogus, and adding layers of abstraction, try this one for size: An assault squad with jet packs flies over some trees, and lands in front of an enemy squad. That squad just stand there doing nothing, while the assault squad charges in to attack them. It's absolutely nuts if you think about it!

I don't think it would be too difficult to introduce some kind of 'defensive reaction to charges' mechanic in 40k.

Hold, Flee or Stand and Shoot (with a to hit modifier) like in Fantasy?

Pacific wrote:Well, I hate to say it but I think you are probably in the minority there !

There were quite a lot of smaller rules added to Necromunda (such as falling over when being shot - which makes perfect sense by the way!) which wouldn't translate into 40k.

About something being bogus, and adding layers of abstraction, try this one for size: An assault squad with jet packs flies over some trees, and lands in front of an enemy squad. That squad just stand there doing nothing, while the assault squad charges in to attack them. It's absolutely nuts if you think about it!

I don't think it would be too difficult to introduce some kind of 'defensive reaction to charges' mechanic in 40k.

wait....this sounds familiar.... oh right.

infinity

just saying