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Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
I assume this is the best place to ask;

So a friend and I are both newbies from 9th ed, and are looking at some of the older editions, having gotten tired of 40k the card game. So we were looking at some of the older editions, namely 7th ed. I've got GSC, while he has orks, however we're lacking certain components (namely his lack of HQ since he's not confident in his resin or metal skills), so we've mainly been playing open. So my question is what changes/house rules/alterations would you all suggest to balance things for 7th ed?


Welcome to the topic

I find many players new to 40K (8th ed + ) have no concept about how different the game played (or how much they enjoy playing the older editions)

Like others have pointed out with 7th the formation spam really kills the fun of the game there were many things about 7th i liked, but i prefer them in the confines of the 5th ed rule set. fortunately for our group the editions are cross compatible-see page 1 of this topic for what we did.

Also sticking to the original single force org chart is a good way to keep things sane.

The good news is that no matter which of the older editions you choose to use books from they are very affordable usually running around $10 or less for a codex on ebay, and you never have to worry about chasing the meta because nothing in those codexes/editions will ever be invalidated.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/06 05:51:00




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
I assume this is the best place to ask;

So a friend and I are both newbies from 9th ed, and are looking at some of the older editions, having gotten tired of 40k the card game. So we were looking at some of the older editions, namely 7th ed. I've got GSC, while he has orks, however we're lacking certain components (namely his lack of HQ since he's not confident in his resin or metal skills), so we've mainly been playing open. So my question is what changes/house rules/alterations would you all suggest to balance things for 7th ed?


In addition to the 'no individual unit can cost more than 25% of your army points", the other three rules I would suggest are:

1) No Invulnerable Save can be "improved" to better than a 3++,
2) Replace Invisibility with Warp Howl from 30k (One enemy unit is reduced to WS/BS 1 for the turn)
3) Update the Destroyer rule so that a '2-6' is simply "D3 wounds/HP; successful invulnerable saves must be rerolled", with Deathblow removed.

There are some other things to rebalance, such as the relative ease of 'glancing/stripping vehicles' of HP vs killing them with supposedly dedicated AT weapons, or how Grav was the 'anti-everything' gun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/06 15:48:39


 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

A little update with an epic battle that took several weeks of planning. our 5th ed apocalypse game

The battle of cold steel ridge-the battle for Macragge against hive fleet behemoth.

Calgar was there, the swarm lord was there and the baneblade was there. As per the scenario the defenders of ultramar were hard pressed being outnumbered by the tyranid horde.


The start of the battle

Spoiler:


Spoiler:



Doesn't look to bad right?

then everything else dropped on to the battlefield.

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


The defenders rallied and pushed back the onslaught at least briefly

a lone surviving kreigman filled with devotion even charged out beyond the wall and charged into onrushing gaunts...and his faith prevailed for he held the line and survived!

Spoiler:


Spoiler:



Then the 3rd wave hit

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:



The outcome of this battle looked to follow the actual lore quite directly.


Next week...we are going the opposite direction with some multi-player kill teams.

Old school style of course






This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 22:27:20




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

*That weird feeling when you realise that you could field both those armies with just your own stuff, and still have tons to spare.*

I really have a lot of 'Nids...

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*That weird feeling when you realise that you could field both those armies with just your own stuff, and still have tons to spare.*

I really have a lot of 'Nids...


Oh i know the feeling. i never stopped my first love having a large collection of classic battletech minis, for 40K-
between 3rd and 5th i built a regular dark angels army, a deathwing army, ravenwing army, sisters army, nid army, tau army, BFG grey knight fleet, necron fleet, and chaos tzeentch fleet, then i started in on my DIY chapter.

Spoiler:


and then i broke down and built a mechanicus force with mostly 3rd party models.

After my DIY army i have really cut back on 28mm 40K selling off most of it, while moving into mostly smaller model count games epic 40K, DUST, infinity, warmachine, monpoc, castles in the sky, B5 wars conversions using star wars armada scale and star trek attack wing ships, which means of course i replaced my huge collection of GW swag with a game room full of minis from other systems.

But hey at least it is all painted!






GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot




Columbus, Ohio

I was going to start a thread asking if people are actually happy with 9th edition?

After reading through a number of the posts, I realized I am not alone. Basically, I haven’t truly enjoyed any edition since 5th. And while 5th was by no means perfect, IMO the game has been as enjoyable since. I’m working now on trying to start a game group to play 5th edition again.

Proudly howling at 40k games since 1996.
Adepticon Team Arrogant Bastards
6000 point Space Wolves army
2500 point 13th Company Space Wolves army
3000 point Imperial Fists army
5000 point Dwarfs army
3500 point Bretonnian army
2000 point Beastmen army 
   
Made in jp
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

Agreed and welcome to the old school.

I's going to be hard to get some people to step away from the GW indoctrination that you must only play the newest edition, but it is so worth it when you build up a group that does.

I don't think hardcore tourney minded players would like 5th on back though since it focuses more on lore and less on straight comparative stats.

On a side note i just dug up my old 3rd ed rules for the warhound titan, for when it was meant to be played in NORMAL scale 40K games prior to the creation of the first edition of apocalypse.

There was no such thing as D weapons and it makes titans far less scary.

They can move 6" and fire both guns, or 12" and fire one

The twin turbo laser destructor for example is a 72" range heavy 2 small blast S9 AP2 and the mega bolter is 36" heavy 10 S6 AP4 with rending.

Although i think i will run with the plasma blast gun (S8 AP2 large blast 54" range with 2d6 armor pen against vehicles if the hole is over the hull) instead of the turbo lasers

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 06:01:33




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*That weird feeling when you realise that you could field both those armies with just your own stuff, and still have tons to spare.*

I really have a lot of 'Nids...


Yeah, until the Hierodules showed up, I was thinking the same thing...

By the way, what size table was that - 8 X 4?

------------

*ping* *ping*

"I'm telling ya, they're in the perimeter"

"You ain't reading it right, man."

"Yeah, I am, its-"

*Angry roar as Trygon bursts out of the ground amid Imperial forces, scattering them*

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 16:18:22


It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

By the way, what size table was that - 8 X 4?

Yes, the store has several 8X4s sometimes we stick them together, but it is hard for some of us to reach the middle in those cases.


This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 18:23:11




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





There is the Battle Bible for free on the interwebz. It includes rules, army lists and war gear for all the published factions during 2nd.

Question:
Is there a demand for 2nd battle reports played & posted by the community?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 21:44:32


 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

Here is a couple old pictures of an early apocalypse (1st release) where we have the tables pushed together



Spoiler:


Spoiler:




On retro battle reports....this is the place for them so post away, you may need to explain the rules a biti for the newer players since 2nd is so far removed from what most current players understand.

I mean the minute you start using something other than D6s in a 40K game it will blow their minds.




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Strg Alt wrote:
There is the Battle Bible for free on the interwebz. It includes rules, army lists and war gear for all the published factions during 2nd.

Question:
Is there a demand for 2nd battle reports played & posted by the community?


Does it change any of the rules?

I seem to remember a better HtH system floating around (where having more attacks didn't in fact increase your chance of fumbling).
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

The battle bible was the official compendium of the second edition rules set. , so it is all official rules.

Much like the core 3rd ed rulebook had the basic rules for every faction that was available at the time



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





The_Real_Chris wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
There is the Battle Bible for free on the interwebz. It includes rules, army lists and war gear for all the published factions during 2nd.

Question:
Is there a demand for 2nd battle reports played & posted by the community?


Does it change any of the rules?

I seem to remember a better HtH system floating around (where having more attacks didn't in fact increase your chance of fumbling).


Nope, they are unchanged. Just a few words to melee:
People easily forget that 2nd provided players with the Overwatch mechanic. While there were to hit modifiers for size, speed, range and cover the odds of hitting models charging you were pretty good.
And heavy weapons in 2nd felt like HEAVY weapons. A heavy bolter would cause D4 wounds with each hit and have ASM of - 2. So even a SM Cpt. (W3) had to be careful.
Now try to picture a scene in which a CSM unit would have multiple heavy bolters on Overwatch covering with their LOS a specific area. Enemy infantry units would be too afraid to even consider going towards that direction unless they were terminators or had strength in numbers. They would need to take a different path or try to shoot at the CSM with other units in hope that they would lose their Overwatch status.

Battle Bible:
I printed it out and bound the pages into a hard cover. It is now one of the most cherished 40K books in my collection. Lol!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:
Here is a couple old pictures of an early apocalypse (1st release) where we have the tables pushed together



Spoiler:


Spoiler:




On retro battle reports....this is the place for them so post away, you may need to explain the rules a biti for the newer players since 2nd is so far removed from what most current players understand.

I mean the minute you start using something other than D6s in a 40K game it will blow their minds.



I would have posted them in the Battle Reports Subforum. My style of doing battle reports differs because I prefer to do pics instead of a video. Though you still can explain what you are doing and most of the crucial stuff can be mentioned by an initial post.

I could prepare a battle report with 2nd rules for the community this weekend. My intention would be do cram all the exciting stuff into it which made 2nd special. So it would contain Terminators (with armour saves on 3+ rolled with 2D6 adding both results together! ), a Vortex Grenade (Yikes!) and chaos worshippers trying to collect summoning points during battle to call in Daemons to just name a few.
Anybody interested?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/30 11:20:19


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Did you ever play 2nd with GWs tourney rules?
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





The_Real_Chris wrote:
Did you ever play 2nd with GWs tourney rules?


Uhm, 2nd was in the 90s. This meant no Internet. And I haven't read each and every WD for published tournaments rules. This means a big NOPE!

   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut





Ireland

I know there were day events and stuff at conventions during 2nd Ed but I don’t really remember tournaments being a thing back then at all. Finding someone to play at all was usually a challenge, let alone a group of people!
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






There were definity tournaments in 2nd ed, both local and official. I believe there was one White Dwarf featuring the two tourney champions playing against each other as a battle report. I think they were both Eldar armies, heh.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Insectum7 wrote:
There were definity tournaments in 2nd ed, both local and official. I believe there was one White Dwarf featuring the two tourney champions playing against each other as a battle report. I think they were both Eldar armies, heh.
I still have that issue, and yes, they were both Eldar armies. Different Eldar armies, too.

Was refreshing to see a BatRep that wasn't just what the studio had painted.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

So now that i have a bit of time-
a few more pictures of our ongoing 5th edition kill teams games


doing afun little one here-capture the relic. there are 5 objective markers of which one is the prize, the rest are boobytraps

But you don't know that until you send a mini over to touch it and flip it over.

Also once the objective is found it is hard to carry and can only be moved 6" per player turn.

The battle this time around was a 4 way of imperial guard VS admech VS salamanders VS iron hands

The table

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


The teams-

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Part of the battle

Admech ended up finding the objective and were fighting hard to hold on to it.

Spoiler:


Spoiler:




This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/02 13:55:44




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Some lovely tables and terrain setup there aphyon

 Insectum7 wrote:
There were definity tournaments in 2nd ed, both local and official. I believe there was one White Dwarf featuring the two tourney champions playing against each other as a battle report. I think they were both Eldar armies, heh.


From memory Eldar armies were pretty nasty. Dark Reapers in heavy cover nailing stuff from distance, then Howling Banshees (who would make absolutely mincemeat of marine squads if they charged).

The only time I saw them struggling was against Tyranid armies, although I think most armies used to struggle against them! Genestealers - oh boy (I think we ended up banning use of 'gate' with a cultist psyker) and the Carnifex was a joke, it seemed to be almost indestructible unless you could somehow get off a close-range multi-melta hit on them.

I remember one game not getting my marines tabled by my mates Nid army (although still losing) and treating that as a massive victory

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Strg Alt wrote:
The_Real_Chris wrote:
Did you ever play 2nd with GWs tourney rules?


Uhm, 2nd was in the 90s. This meant no Internet. And I haven't read each and every WD for published tournaments rules. This means a big NOPE!



From memory they were no level 3 psychic powers, cap on max character points, characters no more than 25% of the army, armies at 1500 points. Anyone remember the other rules?
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





North-East UK

Don't know if anyone's seen these folks but I'm really enjoying these folks Battle Reports for 5th edition 40k. They call themselves "40k Lords of War."


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 19:41:24


Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts
Batman Miniatures Game: Mr.Freeze, Joker
Ever wanted a better 5th ed. 40k? Take a look at 5th ed. Reforged! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/794253.page 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

Thanks for the heads up!

Subscribed and left a comment.

I will watch more later.




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

A little more detail about the last couple games we played- everything was the base 5th edition rules set as set out in my original post

We did kill teams first with a single "king of the hill" mode non-move-able center objective.

we had a few people gone this weekend so it was only a 3 way battle with iron hands VS salamanders VS custodes(new list proxied with obliterators)

the battle was very pitched, i have one sternguard vet that has a carry over wound from previous battles that causes him to have hatred towards the iron hands kill team, so he was pretty well occupied with moving towards and fighting with any member of that team he could get at.

The real tough nut to crack was of course the custodes. the only thing that kept my librarian alive was the ability to gate himself away from danger.


I think we only managed to drop 2 custodes the entire match and put wounds on a few more. i lost my vanguard veteran and my scout. so it ended up being a low kill count game all around the iron hands got the worst of that loosing his rhino and 3 marines.

Spoiler:





For the full game we have to break out the way back machine to a time when GW via FW actually designed superheavies to be played in normal games of 40K because there was no such thing as apocalypse/D strength weapons etc...meaning they were not made to be game breaking and were super expensive center piece models.

My warhound titan(dreamforge leviathan that was 1/4 the cost GW charges) clocked in at a massive 810 points leaving me with my dominus a cataphron breacher squad, destroyer squad and sicarian infiltrators.

Spoiler:


My opponent was the classic 3.5 iron warriors list
warpsmith, X3 las/plas squads, basalisk, 9 obliterators and 3 kitted out preds.

The mission was a single objective in each players deployment zone.

Even though i went first there was enough terrain on the table that the first couple turns were pretty ineffective for both of us.


As always when i fight this army i can never kill those darn preds with all those demonic upgrades. i immobilized them ripped guns off etc....but to be fair he wasn't doing much better against my titan. he took the void shields down a bunch of times and did some minor drive damage that my onboard techpriest managed to fix.

my infiltrators came in just where i wanted them and cleaned out his infantry and he returned the favor by taking down all my breachers before they could really hurt his tanks.

It became a draw game because i could not knock his basilisk off his objective and my infiltrators are not troops so no OBSEC.

Still it was a fun game.

Spoiler:



Spoiler:



Spoiler:









This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 03:13:48




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Your pictures are borked.

Upload 'em to Dakka. Save yourself the pain.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

I forgot to check the file extension fixing them now
*all fixed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 03:14:56




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Cool.

Ok, so, Dreadmforge Knight, Therians, a Tech-Priest and... what are those other things?

And I really like that first mat. I need to build a set of terrain that'll work with it.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




washington state USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cool.

Ok, so, Dreadmforge Knight, Therians, a Tech-Priest and... what are those other things?

And I really like that first mat. I need to build a set of terrain that'll work with it.


Those would be Ghar battlesuits from beyond the gates of antares-warlord games. love the models

https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/ghar

I was going for an all spider walking army, and i was also feeling lazy. if i had a 3d printer the stuff over on themakerscult for mechanicus style minis is really nice.

Yeah i love the mars factory mat, i got a full manufactorum building from war scenery via the canvas temple store coming this week to finish off the whole mars sector map.


The mat is from gamematEU

https://www.gamemat.eu/en/battle-mats/6-x4-battle-mats/6-x4-g-mat-forges-of-mars.html

The manufactorum-

https://canvastemple.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_16_20&products_id=181






GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 aphyon wrote:
Those would be Ghar battlesuits from beyond the gates of antares-warlord games. love the models
I have this weird feeling that I've asked you that before.

Oh I know. I have that one already.

Damn that's cool.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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