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Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

The life of a CSM is pretty "Darwinian". If you become a vegetable, you're useless, and you'll be killed and your wargear taken by someone stronger. If you become a "gibbering lunatic" you'll be turned into a Spawn or Possessed so that the daemon can do the thinking for you (Possessed were one of the few infantry units that couldn't have Veteran Skills in 3.5). Raptors that "go feral" become Warp Talons. Only the strongest survive and keep their sanity, that's the point. Every day is a potential fight, even if it's with the members of your own warband.
   
Made in gb
Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The life of a CSM is pretty "Darwinian". If you become a vegetable, you're useless, and you'll be killed and your wargear taken by someone stronger. If you become a "gibbering lunatic" you'll be turned into a Spawn or Possessed so that the daemon can do the thinking for you (Possessed were one of the few infantry units that couldn't have Veteran Skills in 3.5). Raptors that "go feral" become Warp Talons. Only the strongest survive and keep their sanity, that's the point. Every day is a potential fight, even if it's with the members of your own warband.


The issue is in Chaos, nothing is standard.

There are also chaos warbands who operate largely like in their legion days and DONT back stab their brothers in the back first opportunity (Not without orders ofc). Its impossible for the current CSM codex to cater to all different warband styles.

Iron Warriors are my first and only Chaos marine legion since 4th and I despise how poorly I feel I can play them in 9th compared to so many other armies and traits.
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




GW would have to find a way in the CSM Codex to make rules for:
5-7 Legions
6 renegade chapters/ warbands
Agents of Bile
Fallen
4-5marks of Chaos
This is just if they want to update all the things we got in 8th and before most things people in this thread would like to see. And before any connection to Daemons. I don't think GW can win this one

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/12 13:45:23


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





CREATIONS of bile and fallen, also along with a few others could be in 1 book called something like factions of chaos. They would only need a few specific models for each army and then you take data sheets from other books (which you don’t have to buy if you subscribe to The app or Warhammer +)
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




God I don’t want chaos to have to have 4 god aligned supplements for the 4 god legions, a legion codex and a renegade chapters codex, but I don’t think there is any other way to appease the masses. Creations of Bile and Fallen sounds like a renegade chapters supplement entry...

Anyways I decided to take on the challenge of making a fandex that is more interactive with the rules, closer in line with the loyalist codex, and a bit lighter on the special abilities (death to the false emperor and hateful assault? Why not just add 1 to attack on the profile and call it good). Also adding 1 wound to the profiles... I feel like I am failing craptastically at simplifying the codex and the internal balance is going to be way way off... and I am worried that some of my ideas like the mark of khorne adding exploding 6’s to other mark of khorne units after killing an enemy unit are too wordy to state in an upgrade and is too overpowered a buff even for a purchaseable upgrade but I like the idea of making khornate armies super aggressive and also rewarding the inclusion of shooting units in khorne lists.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

macluvin wrote:
God I don’t want chaos to have to have 4 god aligned supplements for the 4 god legions, a legion codex and a renegade chapters codex, but I don’t think there is any other way to appease the masses. Creations of Bile and Fallen sounds like a renegade chapters supplement entry...

Anyways I decided to take on the challenge of making a fandex that is more interactive with the rules, closer in line with the loyalist codex, and a bit lighter on the special abilities (death to the false emperor and hateful assault? Why not just add 1 to attack on the profile and call it good). Also adding 1 wound to the profiles... I feel like I am failing craptastically at simplifying the codex and the internal balance is going to be way way off... and I am worried that some of my ideas like the mark of khorne adding exploding 6’s to other mark of khorne units after killing an enemy unit are too wordy to state in an upgrade and is too overpowered a buff even for a purchaseable upgrade but I like the idea of making khornate armies super aggressive and also rewarding the inclusion of shooting units in khorne lists.


The reason not to want that configuration of Codecies: GW could never support it properly.

Nurgle Daemons were strong in 8th, Slannesh is strong in 9th. Now imagine that dynamic but with every Legion. World Eaters and Emperor's Children could both get an outstanding Codex for 9th, then get nerfed down to 4th Tier 6 months later when 10th comes around.

I have a feeling it's coming and we will have to deal with it. But having to pay CP for each detachment makes it hard to compensate for failings in one or more books. Somebody's army is always going to get battered with each edition.

WRT a fandex, you are always going to be chasing the meta. It's not worth it.

   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




I see there is a new campaign book? Still no CSM or TS codex? Pretty much says it all where GW is concerned on Chaos. We are now a bottom tier concern. I guess worse things can or could happen..........like getting primaris.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

TS? As in Thousand Sons? That came out a month or so ago.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The life of a CSM is pretty "Darwinian". If you become a vegetable, you're useless, and you'll be killed and your wargear taken by someone stronger. If you become a "gibbering lunatic" you'll be turned into a Spawn or Possessed so that the daemon can do the thinking for you (Possessed were one of the few infantry units that couldn't have Veteran Skills in 3.5). Raptors that "go feral" become Warp Talons. Only the strongest survive and keep their sanity, that's the point. Every day is a potential fight, even if it's with the members of your own warband.


The issue is in Chaos, nothing is standard.

In theory, maybe...

In practice...
Except for way back in the beginning, Chaos armies are rigidly organized and restricted.
The diversity of Chaos was defeated and eaten by the 'Recognizable IP' monster, with the excreted remains rigidly sculpted by the Flanderization Parasites.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Voss wrote:
The diversity of Chaos was defeated and eaten by the 'Recognizable IP' monster, with the excreted remains rigidly sculpted by the Flanderization Parasites.
Behold: The Face of Darkness itself!

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




Table wrote:
I see there is a new campaign book? Still no CSM or TS codex? Pretty much says it all where GW is concerned on Chaos. We are now a bottom tier concern. I guess worse things can or could happen..........like getting primaris.


At least the range is in plastic XD *looks nervously at 90% of the elder line*
Also they teased a chaos codex early 2022. So there is that...
But seriously supplements and campaign books are worthless without an up to date and functioning codex. Like whoop dee doo I can play my army and not feel like I am representing them properly on the tabletop and lose in even more ways now! That’s why I am making a fandex and trying to make sure it is at least slightly to noticeably weaker than the loyalist equivalent codex. Who knows maybe GW would convert it into a traitor legions supplement if I emailed it and offered them it for free XD no need to pay anyone. it still loses to marines 60 percent of the time I swear!

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Voss wrote:
The diversity of Chaos was defeated and eaten by the 'Recognizable IP' monster, with the excreted remains rigidly sculpted by the Flanderization Parasites.
Behold: The Face of Darkness itself!


Exalt, take it, now let me bitterly grumble.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
TS? As in Thousand Sons? That came out a month or so ago.


Interesting. I mostly lurk these forums on breaks so I skim through the thread titles and I havent seen any (not to say there are not, just I havent seen any). Was it a terrible release? Did it fix any issues? Are they out of bottom tier?
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Table wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
TS? As in Thousand Sons? That came out a month or so ago.


Interesting. I mostly lurk these forums on breaks so I skim through the thread titles and I havent seen any (not to say there are not, just I havent seen any). Was it a terrible release? Did it fix any issues? Are they out of bottom tier?


It's a great codex and they're definitely out of the bottom tier. I don't think the internal balance is quite as good as the DG book but it's still very solid.

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
(HN) wrote:
It's an objectively mediocre book from the rule, lore, edition, content, hobby point of view.
 
   
Made in fr
Sinister Chaos Marine






I was thinking about something while painting some chosen for my EC: How interesting/fair/good would it be to give all chaos space marines something like a "chaos bolter" with str4 AP-1 1dmg ?

Because at this point regular old bolters do kind of feel like pea shooters when I am playing against my pal's space wolves. (in the context of EC vs SW with homeruled 2w chaos marines) Weird for such an iconic weapons no ? Or is it just a sign of damage power creep in the game ?

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
I was thinking about something while painting some chosen for my EC: How interesting/fair/good would it be to give all chaos space marines something like a "chaos bolter" with str4 AP-1 1dmg ?

Because at this point regular old bolters do kind of feel like pea shooters when I am playing against my pal's space wolves. (in the context of EC vs SW with homeruled 2w chaos marines) Weird for such an iconic weapons no ? Or is it just a sign of damage power creep in the game ?


Honestly it's where I'd go with them, even if it is needless ap creep.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Primaris got AP-1 and +6 range, 1ksons got AP-2, Death Guard effectively got a +1 to wound against many statlines thanks to Contagions, and SoB got D2 stormbolters, so I expect CSM bolters to get something. AP-1 seems like the easiest, so most likely that.
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




I don’t think they care enough about chaos space marine bolters. I mean we got malicious volleys XD Adding an assault 2 12” profile in addition to the rapid fire might be kinda cool. Or assault 4 12” for combibolters... or ap -1. Or, we’ll get a 2cp strat to make bolters d2 (bonus if it ends up being applicable exclusively against imperium units).

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 Marshal Loss wrote:
Table wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
TS? As in Thousand Sons? That came out a month or so ago.


Interesting. I mostly lurk these forums on breaks so I skim through the thread titles and I havent seen any (not to say there are not, just I havent seen any). Was it a terrible release? Did it fix any issues? Are they out of bottom tier?


It's a great codex and they're definitely out of the bottom tier. I don't think the internal balance is quite as good as the DG book but it's still very solid.


That is great! Very happy for the sons players. If GW does right by chaos marines proper I may come back. Crossing my fingers.
   
Made in ca
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Primaris got AP-1 and +6 range, 1ksons got AP-2, Death Guard effectively got a +1 to wound against many statlines thanks to Contagions, and SoB got D2 stormbolters, so I expect CSM bolters to get something. AP-1 seems like the easiest, so most likely that.


I feel like if they enhance anything, it will be more CC than Bolters. Maybe an always on Ap -1 in CC? I don't see them doing that much with just plain bolters for CSM to be honest.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 Sasori wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Primaris got AP-1 and +6 range, 1ksons got AP-2, Death Guard effectively got a +1 to wound against many statlines thanks to Contagions, and SoB got D2 stormbolters, so I expect CSM bolters to get something. AP-1 seems like the easiest, so most likely that.


I feel like if they enhance anything, it will be more CC than Bolters. Maybe an always on Ap -1 in CC? I don't see them doing that much with just plain bolters for CSM to be honest.


Astartes chainswords are already ap-1, if you're suggesting ap -1 fists then what would you do to chainswords?
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




How about making boltguns with chainswords attached? I mean a lot of older CSM models have bolters with something that looks like a bayonet attached to it so why not allow bolters to make melee attacks as though they were chainswords.

I'm mostly just joking but only mostly.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





We're getting cultists and resculpts. CSM horde army incoming.

I'd love to be wrong though.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
We're getting cultists and resculpts. CSM horde army incoming.

I'd love to be wrong though.


That rumor engine thing today looks like chaos, and doesn't strike me as cultists or a resculpt.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

TwinPoleTheory is going off the leaked rumor bit, which detailed a fairly significant Cult/Mutant presence with the CSM release next year.

It also had a plastic Warpsmith, a new Chaos Knights book with a Chaos Knights dedicated kit coming too.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





Voss wrote:
That rumor engine thing today looks like chaos, and doesn't strike me as cultists or a resculpt.


Today's rumor engine was a Huron Blackheart resculpt, I'll put money on that.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Voss wrote:
That rumor engine thing today looks like chaos, and doesn't strike me as cultists or a resculpt.


Today's rumor engine was a Huron Blackheart resculpt, I'll put money on that.

I wouldn't. It doesn't look to be right-handed.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't. It doesn't look to be right-handed.


Flipping images is pretty easy when you want to keep people guessing, I'll stand on my bet.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

Flipping images is easy, but GW tends not to do so.
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




The proportions on the claw strike me as not something you would find on a normal power armored marine. I find the chaos knight explanation to be the best fit.
Good news though! Chaos is getting a knight that wins games on its own. Bad news is that the primaris knight that is getting released 3 months later will murder wreck it super efficiently

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
 
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