Switch Theme:

Chaos needs a lot of work.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I just don't think they'd do it.

They wouldn't do a "Renegade Razorback" because GW don't sell a "Renegade Razorback".


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

"It's too difficult to capture the variations of the Chaos forces"

Publishes a 12 volume set of books for a faction with far less divergence.

Endlessly annoying.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





We’ve been promised a bumper year for chaos in 2022. If they have saved all the chaos releases for the same year then fingers crossed it’s something good.

If it’s primaris with spikes then I’ll be upset
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






So here’s an idea. As ever, I do not claim it to actually be a Good Idea.

Let every Legion have its own Codex, just as the Loyalist Primogenitor Chapters have theirs.

Black Legion and more recent Traitors have a separate book.

Lost and the Damned has a separate book, which covers all the other traitorous forces (including Dark Mechanicum, who really need a better name).

However, each book has a common rule, allowing you, if you wish, to create hybrid armies without the normal loss of efficiency. Like being able to take a second formation without losing CP? Perhaps not a specialist formation?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







You think individual full 'dexes for the non-Cult Legions, Doc, rather than a core 'dex and Supplements?

Wouldn't argue with a cross-book supplement for Renegades, as long as it wasn't just "here's the full Proper Space Marine line with Spikes, plus some of the Chaos stuff".

Traitor Guard/LatD and Dark Mech should probably be individual books, rather than combined into one.

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Eldarain wrote:
"It's too difficult to capture the variations of the Chaos forces"

Publishes a 12 volume set of books for a faction with far less divergence.

Endlessly annoying.


Meanwhile IA 13 allowed you to create all chaos non astartes forces with a bit of imagination and customizability...

And yet here we are having what feels like 1 million astartes codices whilest Gw couldn't muster the strength to just update the IA13 list into 8/ 9th edition, which btw due to the design already inherent in those lists (aka traits and further specialisation unlocked through specific "colour" choices) didn't happen.
Instead we got now a legend ruleset so abismal that it's version of the apocalypse ruleset is better somehow, and makes IG and GSC in their disfunctional and or Boring to hell state look like positively magnificent rulesets for these factions.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dysartes wrote:
You think individual full 'dexes for the non-Cult Legions, Doc, rather than a core 'dex and Supplements?

Wouldn't argue with a cross-book supplement for Renegades, as long as it wasn't just "here's the full Proper Space Marine line with Spikes, plus some of the Chaos stuff".

Traitor Guard/LatD and Dark Mech should probably be individual books, rather than combined into one.


Again, why bother splitting up when you could achieve that (and HAS already been done well btw) in one "dex"?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/08 08:47:59


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






 Dysartes wrote:
You think individual full 'dexes for the non-Cult Legions, Doc, rather than a core 'dex and Supplements?

Wouldn't argue with a cross-book supplement for Renegades, as long as it wasn't just "here's the full Proper Space Marine line with Spikes, plus some of the Chaos stuff".

Traitor Guard/LatD and Dark Mech should probably be individual books, rather than combined into one.


I dunno on the non-Cult legions. I feel like that’s best covered in a relatively vanilla CSM Codex, but with extra stuff to lean into Word Bearers etc? The 3.5 Codex covered them pretty well - if kind of unevenly in terms of their potency.

The core SM book is a pretty hefty volume in terms of unit count alone, so I don’t see much of a reason as to why CSM couldn’t follow suit. Plus, we now have Keywords to play with, which can open up interesting synergies and limits there on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess there needs to be options to satisfy all.

To me, Chaos is most fun when they’re Cults of Personality. Various warbands or differing sizes pitching in together, the Champions trying to out do each other. The game needs to reflect this.

To others, Chaos is most fun when it’s Legion remnants - elements of the original Legions who have stuck together, maintaining a more traditional military structure. The game needs to reflect this, too.

And other variations in between.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 09:02:48


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just don't think they'd do it.

They wouldn't do a "Renegade Razorback" because GW don't sell a "Renegade Razorback".



It'd be a "space marine razorback" as it is now, just referenced in a supplement. Same way they don't make a space wolves razorback or blood angels razorback.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Dudeface wrote:
It'd be a "space marine razorback" as it is now, just referenced in a supplement. Same way they don't make a space wolves razorback or blood angels razorback.
Those units are derived from the Space Marine Codex, so they kinda do.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I think another part of the problem is trying to represent even the diversity within the CSM with too little in the way of rules.

Really, there are 3 subclasses of CSM, each with their own veteran and hero units potentially.
You've got the OG Traitor Legions, the Veterans of the Long War. It should be possible to make a Legion army with their own line CSM and elite units. They should have access to mostly pre-heresy tech and have better stats than the average Imperial Space Marine.
Then you've got recent renegades. They should have similar stats to the Imperials and similar equipment, but some variation to represent their shift of allegience. Then they should also have access to veterans, just like the normal space marines do.
Lastly, you've got the rapidly and roughly raised Aspirants. These guys should be the ones who are weaker than Imperial Space Marines, and cheaper. The Scout paradigm is not a bad one for these guys, though they seem to all use power armour rather than scout armour. But you could justify worse armour stats if you wanted by making their suits the most battered and patched together, barely functional.

At the moment, you've only really got access to Chosen, who might be any kind of Chaos Veteran, or CSM who are worse than their Imperial counterparts.

I reckon it's fully possible to represent all of these in one book, but it's true that Chaos would be approaching the number of datasheets that Imperial Space Marines have, and that's not a great situation.

If I was going to split them, I'd probably do Legions, Renegades and Lost and the Damned. 3 books is not too bad. The problem is we have seperate books now for Death Guard and Thousand Sons, so people will no doubt want them for Emperor's Children and World Eaters, and that'd bump us up to 7 books total for Chaos. Then again, compared to the Imperium that's still not too crazy, it's just more bloat than I'd want myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 10:01:08


   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Indeed. Please leave the Terminator Lord/ sorcerer alone, it's still the best HQ kit GW has created. They never got that quality again and used the Material properly that one time.


I was expecting a new Ahriman sculpt of him riding his staff like a pogo stick for the TS codex, this edition is dead to me.


Wouldn’t surprise me. The masses would lap it up as the current mini is from 2015 (IIRC) so is deemed “ancient” and “lumpy” and other such buzzwords by people who have no clue about how normal a longevity of a mini’s shelf life is…



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
It'd be a "space marine razorback" as it is now, just referenced in a supplement. Same way they don't make a space wolves razorback or blood angels razorback.
Those units are derived from the Space Marine Codex, so they kinda do.


I think you missed the part where I suggested a supplement that directs to both chaos and loyalist marine books. So if renegade dedicated transports says: this unit is derived from codex space marines, see razorback on page w/e, no additional boxes or marketing is needed.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think there'd be a lot of complaints from people if they had to buy two full Codices on top of a Codex supplement to play one army.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






That would be such a confusing mess of rules though and who's going to buy 2 Codexes plus a Supplement just to use a Razorback with CSM?
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think there'd be a lot of complaints from people if they had to buy two full Codices on top of a Codex supplement to play one army.


Oh I agree, but it'd be the "easiest" course of action they could take without reprinting entries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
That would be such a confusing mess of rules though and who's going to buy 2 Codexes plus a Supplement just to use a Razorback with CSM?


A razorback is just an example, it could be a full slew of units that fit from both. GW likely won't reprint them again due to the same issues that lead to the supplements in the first place.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 10:36:25


 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




Dudeface wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think there'd be a lot of complaints from people if they had to buy two full Codices on top of a Codex supplement to play one army.


Oh I agree, but it'd be the "easiest" course of action they could take without reprinting entries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
That would be such a confusing mess of rules though and who's going to buy 2 Codexes plus a Supplement just to use a Razorback with CSM?


A razorback is just an example, it could be a full slew of units that fit from both. GW likely won't reprint them again due to the same issues that lead to the supplements in the first place.


GW had a more relaxed approach in the DG Codex with 9th. The Terminator lord and sorcerer are still there, even got DG rules (unlike last edition where they felt like a copy&paste error), even though there are only the generic CSM models for them.
So in essence, a renegade codex would be possible, but expect hilarious stuff like only razorbacks being able to equip hunter killer missiles, but Rhinos and Predators get havoc launchers.

But unfortunately GW really wants to keep loyalist and Chaos lines separate. The Fallen really should be in the Dark Angels supplement, they don't belong in a CSM book.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I just don't see the point in a Renegades Book if it's just picking extra stuff from the SM Codex with no substantial changes. At that point why not just play SM with spikey models? At what point does the army stop being CSM and instead just become SM?
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 Gert wrote:
I just don't see the point in a Renegades Book if it's just picking extra stuff from the SM Codex with no substantial changes. At that point why not just play SM with spikey models? At what point does the army stop being CSM and instead just become SM?


Well, no primaris, some daemonic units, limited selections of wargear from both books.

On the flip side of this when do renegades suddenly flip from being a loyalist looking chapter to being full to the brim of daemon engines, 10k year old tech and mutants? There's an in-between step there that's incredibly relevant to the setting which just isn't explored.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Today we're announcing a great new Combat Patrol box with 5 brand new Possessed, 20 new Cultists, a new Chaos Lord in Power Armour and a Chaos Rhino. Sadly, everything except the Rhino is pushfit. Enjoy!"


Be careful what you wish for...



Oh no not a monopose Rhino, save me, what am I going to doooooo?????


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sidebar: If anyone is interested, after the announcement of CSM waiting until 2022 my group opted to make an 'unofficial offical patch' to codex CSM to make them a little bit more reasonable.

TLDR is basically we gave all CSM units the stat shifts and point shifts that units in codex DG and codex Tsons got, added the new costs and stats from Tsons for daemon engines and daemon princes, and added a simple little rule to be the equivalent of basic SM doctrines, but chaos-y.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 11:50:40


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Oh no not a monopose Rhino, save me, what am I going to doooooo?????
Uhh... I think you misread my post.

 the_scotsman wrote:
TLDR is basically we gave all CSM units the stat shifts and point shifts that units in codex DG and codex Tsons got, added the new costs and stats from Tsons for daemon engines and daemon princes, and added a simple little rule to be the equivalent of basic SM doctrines, but chaos-y.
That's great and all, but there are fundamental problems behind Chaos both from a rules and miniature line perspective that 2 wound Marines and some revamped Daemon Engines - as necessary as they are - might not necessarily address.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 11:52:41


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Dudeface wrote:
Well, no primaris, some daemonic units, limited selections of wargear from both books.

Limited how though, is the point I'm trying to get at here. CSM share the same basic weapons with only Grav Guns/Cannons, handheld Multi Meltas, Plasma Cannons missing from Marine units. The only CSM exclusive Havoc weapon is the Chain Cannon, and if we remove that and add the Loyalist weapons the unit just becomes Devastators.

On the flip side of this when do renegades suddenly flip from being a loyalist looking chapter to being full to the brim of daemon engines, 10k year old tech and mutants? There's an in-between step there that's incredibly relevant to the setting which just isn't explored.

For aesthetic reasons, CSM need to look different to Loyalists but the CSM kits aren't filled with older armour marks, in fact, it's easier to play Loyalists with older armour than CSM. As for old tech, there are two non-Daemon Engine weapons that Loyalists don't already have, Chain Cannons and Havoc Launchers. Loyalists can take Contemptors, Volkites on Relic Terminators which also get Reaper Autocannons from CSM. Daemon Engines are a choice, not a requirement. As for Mutants, if you spend more time in the Warp than Realspace then you get mutated, simple as that.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 Gert wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Well, no primaris, some daemonic units, limited selections of wargear from both books.

Limited how though, is the point I'm trying to get at here. CSM share the same basic weapons with only Grav Guns/Cannons, handheld Multi Meltas, Plasma Cannons missing from Marine units. The only CSM exclusive Havoc weapon is the Chain Cannon, and if we remove that and add the Loyalist weapons the unit just becomes Devastators.

On the flip side of this when do renegades suddenly flip from being a loyalist looking chapter to being full to the brim of daemon engines, 10k year old tech and mutants? There's an in-between step there that's incredibly relevant to the setting which just isn't explored.

For aesthetic reasons, CSM need to look different to Loyalists but the CSM kits aren't filled with older armour marks, in fact, it's easier to play Loyalists with older armour than CSM. As for old tech, there are two non-Daemon Engine weapons that Loyalists don't already have, Chain Cannons and Havoc Launchers. Loyalists can take Contemptors, Volkites on Relic Terminators which also get Reaper Autocannons from CSM. Daemon Engines are a choice, not a requirement. As for Mutants, if you spend more time in the Warp than Realspace then you get mutated, simple as that.


I think you're missing the concept by a fair margin, it's not just about the silhouette of the model.

Last day of being a loyalist: me and my 15 buddies rock around in a land raider crusader, our nearly dead mate dave in his venerable dreadnought has an assault cannon and a fist.

We wake up the next morning, we're declared traitors because captain Nigel read the wrong book and has mutated.

Now for no reason we have to politely strip down our land raider, leave the assault cannons, hurricane bolters etc behind, we can't all fit in it any more. Half my buddies woke up with bunny ears, mutations and only want to hit things, the other half are now forced to attach spikes to their gear. Dave, is now more flesh than machine, swapped his assault cannon for a clunky autocannon found in a box from 10k years ago and found a hammer somewhere.

The rules don't allow the midground at the moment.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






If you've just turned traitor then the chances of any of your fellows suddenly becoming Bezerkers is fairly slim, same with everything suddenly becoming mutated.
What you're asking for is literally just giving the SM Codex the <Chaos> Keyword. You're not actually asking for anything that isn't already in the SM Codex.
You don't think Renegades should have old gear, OK no Chain Cannons because that's the only Chaos-specific weapon Loyalists don't have access to. You don't want Daemon Engines, OK no Daemon Engines. You don't want Mutants, OK no Helbrutes, Possessed, Cult Marines, or Oblits/Mutilators. What's left? Oh, a CSM Codex with literally all the flavour taken out. Now you want to be able to use the Loyalist gear as well? OK, let's add it in. Now you just have a worse SM Codex with no Primaris. It would literally have been easier to just use your models with the SM Codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 12:30:47


 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 Gert wrote:
If you've just turned traitor then the chances of any of your fellows suddenly becoming Bezerkers is fairly slim, same with everything suddenly becoming mutated.
What you're asking for is literally just giving the SM Codex the <Chaos> Keyword. You're not actually asking for anything that isn't already in the SM Codex.
You don't think Renegades should have old gear, OK no Chain Cannons because that's the only Chaos-specific weapon Loyalists don't have access to. You don't want Daemon Engines, OK no Daemon Engines. You don't want Mutants, OK no Helbrutes, Possessed, Cult Marines, or Oblits/Mutilators. What's left? Oh, a CSM Codex with literally all the flavour taken out. Now you want to be able to use the Loyalist gear as well? OK, let's add it in. Now you just have a worse SM Codex with no Primaris. It would literally have been easier to just use your models with the SM Codex.


A recent renegade chapter might still have a daemon prince or possessed, maybe obliterators. I doubt they'd be bringing a disco lord, heldrakes or havocs.

It's about a blend of the two to represent the turning point in their descent, I mean following your train of thought you probably can't tell me why chaos marines have land raiders, Vindicator, rhinos etc that are literally identical to loyalist ones because they would just be "Space marine units with the chaos keyword".

Edit: It doesn't really matter on second thoughts, you're applying a very black/white approach to an army list that isn't seemingly based on how things work in the fluff. To an extent you're right but if the vision isn't there to see the concept being applied then it's just us waffling back and forth.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 12:40:35


 
   
Made in ca
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 Gert wrote:
If you've just turned traitor then the chances of any of your fellows suddenly becoming Bezerkers is fairly slim, same with everything suddenly becoming mutated.
What you're asking for is literally just giving the SM Codex the <Chaos> Keyword. You're not actually asking for anything that isn't already in the SM Codex.
You don't think Renegades should have old gear, OK no Chain Cannons because that's the only Chaos-specific weapon Loyalists don't have access to. You don't want Daemon Engines, OK no Daemon Engines. You don't want Mutants, OK no Helbrutes, Possessed, Cult Marines, or Oblits/Mutilators. What's left? Oh, a CSM Codex with literally all the flavour taken out. Now you want to be able to use the Loyalist gear as well? OK, let's add it in. Now you just have a worse SM Codex with no Primaris. It would literally have been easier to just use your models with the SM Codex.


Until you want to add some demons or chaos knights to your renegade force, then the rules stop you from doing it.

Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Voss wrote:
Well part of it is simply that I'm tired of GW papering over problems with $35+ single models rather than doing new _units_ that actually fill a role in the codex. Its lazy and cheap (for them) but expensive and inevitably a FOMO race for us.
I just refuse, and I'm tired of seeing the wasted release space on such things.

Um, how?

More options is always good. Always. You don't like official character model? Convert it. In no army this is truer than in chaos, where most character models tend to be Black Legion, and if you want whatever dude it is like a marked character, you need to convert anyway. No one from GW forces you to use official Executioner model, just give your DG/TS/WE model big axe, some skulls and the job is done.

I mean, Deathwatch (which is supposed to be the most unique and varied SM force in existence) gets gak all options, characters, or even wargear (idiot writers from GW think that faction with unlimited Inquisition permit to obtain anything they want has LESS options than regular SM! ), wanna trade for that if you think it's so good?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I don't see how doing all of these is difficult. For veterans of the Heresy, just remove the silly Martial Legacy rule from the Legions, so that they can use Heresy era units more freely than loyalists.

Yeah, because it totally makes sense some rag tag band of renegades with zero supply chains, no spare parts, no means of training new techmarines, forced to beg dark admech for attention paying exorbitant sums for it will have better access than organization that carefully maintained said equipment whole time, eh?

There is a good scene in Night Lords series where the warband leader, Talos, has to scavenge the battlefield for new glove for his armour. Glove. Literally the simplest and cheapest part of armour, because he has no other way of repairing or replacing it. The very idea these dudes can keep leviathans and contemptors running is utterly absurd, and if anything, the Martial Legacy rule for CSM should be doubled. Only the big, rich bands like Black Legion or Corsairs have means to run these, and they get extra CP to represent it. There, but alas, who cares about fluffy rules when you can spam whatever is most OP among pay to win FW junk instead

If anything, CSM got too much recently, diluting their identity. GW should remove thunder hammers, storm bolters, storm shields, etc post Heresy stuff, make expensive gear limited again. CSM used to represent dudes who, by necessity, have only the easiest to maintain and keep in use equipment. Daemons and daemon engines were produced not because CSM liked them, but because you can keep them running using just dead civilians. Force full of leviathans is so opposite of what CSM were last 25 years the very idea is ludicrous. Maybe Abaddon could field it, once, before someone scores lucky hit and the dread becomes useless because even Black Legion and dark admech can't procure the replacement parts unless they invade Mars or other equally defended target. Period.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Also, the reason you can't just play Spikey Marines from the Marine codex is they don't have the <CHAOS> keyword.

No really, this matters.

Several abilities key off the <CHAOS> keyword to do extra damage (three examples are the SoB War Hymn "Refrain of Blazing Piety", the different Ordo abilities of the Inquisition, and the Astra Militarum stragaem "vengeance for cadia").

For someone who enjoys narrative play and whose credulity is already strained in Crusade, to have someone play a "chaos" army that is unaffected by my narratively "anti-chaos" stuff would be the supreme derp.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I guess never say never... but it seems incredibly unlikely they are going to let people soup up SM and CSM just because it would better fit the conception of "new renegades".

The problem with "muh fluff tho" is it leads to the idea that every army should be able to include anything from any factions roster, because you can always make up the fluff afterwards.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also, the reason you can't just play Spikey Marines from the Marine codex is they don't have the <CHAOS> keyword.

No really, this matters.

Several abilities key off the <CHAOS> keyword to do extra damage (three examples are the SoB War Hymn "Refrain of Blazing Piety", the different Ordo abilities of the Inquisition, and the Astra Militarum stragaem "vengeance for cadia").

For someone who enjoys narrative play and whose credulity is already strained in Crusade, to have someone play a "chaos" army that is unaffected by my narratively "anti-chaos" stuff would be the supreme derp.

I see where you are coming from. But the solution to this is rather simple, isn't it?

Just exchange the Imperium keyword with Chaos where necessary. Or add it. Whatever is working better for you and your play buddy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 13:41:48


Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







a_typical_hero wrote:
Just exchange the Imperium keyword with Chaos where necessary. Or add it. Whatever is working better for you and your play buddy.


Do we need to have another discussion about the "cult of officialdom?"

This same tactic could be used to turn GSC into Chaos Cultists/Mortal Renegades (swap Xenos for chaos and Tyranids for chosen chaos god, etc) but that never happens. Why? Well, if I rolled up to a campaign and said to the DM "I'm using my GSC as chaos cultists" or "I'm playing my CSM using the Space Marines codex" he will probably say no.

Two have said no to me so far, with the Chaos-cultists-as-GSC scenario.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: