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Well basically after reading through numerous threads on here and playing at my flgs ive been noticing that there are alot more of TFG's out there. Is this just me or have others noticed and is this turning this game into more of a challenge than a stress relief/ fun time?

Every store has TFG. If you don't know who TFG is at your store, it's probably you.

He who shouts loudest is heard the most.

As it is with the internet. It is far easier to complain than to say nice things, hence there are more threads/posts about the bad things than the good things. Bad things also tend to stick in our memories over the little good things that happen.

These nostalgic "in my day" or "I hate x players" threads are becoming a bit tedious and I'm so new to the game I can't answer for sure, but overall with what I've read my take on it is dicks existed before and they do now.

I think 40k is a bad game to get overly competitive in though, the game owes itself heavily to the fluff/universe and the biggest problems for the game in my mind besides the obvious like the decline of miniture wargaming/the price of the hobby are people simply playing to win and not appreciating any fluff/aestetic aspect, aka those who simply make an army to win tournaments. Even if you don't really like the fluff and are just into the game/modelling, there should be a certain entertainment and fun factor to your army.

i know who the TFG's at my store are its just another thread was posted about how 40k players were stuck in there own gaming groups and not friendly towards others and it just amazed me that someone would willingly say that they play in there little group and there group only. I actually run introduction games for new players on a regular basis i just dont want to see something that i have enjoyed for the last 11 years turn into a disgusting animal. I hope its not heading in that direction but it kinda seems that way.

theres plenty of cretins in any hobby though, I dont think its just limited to warhammer/wargaming.


It does tend to attract the psuedo-intellectual professors, I MUST WIN and pedants though :(. We have 1-2 in my local clubs who consistantly cheat, preach etc etc

But for every 1 of those kinds of people you usually get a few decent ones to enjoy it with!!

Also im only around for 7-8 months at a time and than i disappear to eithier iraq or afghanistan and miss out alot and when i come back it seems like people arent enjoying it as much as when i left.

Every local group of people has upswings and downswings. It may be that your local group really is degenerating, whether due to the influence of antisocial people, or a lack of good leadership by nice people. Or it could just be your perception, based on other factors.

very true it could be i dont really get to know the locals at my stores because of the item discussed above. That and when i am stateside i have to move on a pretty regular basis.

There have always been horrible hams, there will always be horrible hams. Nothing's really changed, there's just a vocal minority on forums talking about it. Consider every poster who starts a "horrible gamers" thread. That's a decent amount of people. Now consider everyone who doesn't start one. Assume they haven't had prolonged encounters with the aforementioned horrible hams.

First time I played I didn't,t know the rules, wa12, any way the other kid took out 20 or so space marines then gave me 20 or so orks, it was brief. That was back in rogue trader days

namegoeshere wrote:First time I played I didn't,t know the rules, wa12, any way the other kid took out 20 or so space marines then gave me 20 or so orks, it was brief. That was back in rogue trader days

I'll try to decypher that later.

I have noticed that it seems as if people have a much shorter attention span than they used to. Many people I play against will wander off while I'm moving, and I have to figure out a way to get them back to the table without yelling "Hey, fuckhead, do you wanna witness my to-hit rolls or should I just knock your unpainted gak on the floor?!?" And then there are the onlookers who are so loud and crude that the whole game room sounds like rehearsals for a production of Lord of the Flies.

sourclams wrote:Every store has TFG. If you don't know who TFG is at your store, it's probably you.

Totally want a shirt that says this.....

It's been more or less the same amount of TFG's for the last 15 years I've been playing. Think I'm lucky? You haven't met my TFG's

AnGeLsOfDeAtH said:

how 40k players were stuck in there own gaming groups and not friendly towards others and it just amazed me that someone would willingly say that they play in there little group and there group only.

..well yes and no. If you've been burnt a lot by tards, you may still want to play but you've had enough so only want to play with people you trust. It's sad that it can come to that but it really, really can. Like if you do sports or martial arts, there's people you much prefer to train with because you've been whacked one too many times or you're over bad technique screwing you up. Or playing RPG groups, that happens a lot. You get sick of giving people a chance and creating a new group for people you've not played with or inviting them into an existing group and they screw up the entire chronicle. Then some people have bad faults that they're aware of that seems to mesh with their own little clique, like maybe rules lawyering or being overly competitive or anal about measuring distance down to the micro millimetre. They know other people won't enjoy that and become frustrated.

Personally, I'll play 40k with anyone as long as they're patient with me (still learning, slowly) and don't cheat (I'm picky about RPG troupes, though). And then again, I know others that are happy to play with known cheaters just cos they want to play and winning isn't obviously as important to them as it is to the cheating scum

warpcrafter said:

I have noticed that it seems as if people have a much shorter attention span than they used to. Many people I play against will wander off while I'm moving

Y-Gen, dude. Seriously. Y-Gen (apologies to those Y-Gen reading this who actually have some semblance of an attention span and ability to organise their way out of a wet paper bag. You are rare. Very rare. You should be preserved as an endangered species.)

I guess the OP is just beginning to get out in the world. Hopefully I'm correct and he hasn't just gotten this impression from the internet. TFG is in the eye of the beholder.

You may find a player uncomfortable simply because he is loud, whereas the rest of the group has no problem with his enthusiasm.

You may not like to play against a gamer who is a 'rules lawyer', but certain communities encourage this behaviour.

Not every - but many - groups will contain one or more people who have genuine social problems that stem from any number of issues. You have permission to complain, but I assure you that the more communities (gaming or otherwise) you encounter the more people you will find that bother you in some way or another.

One of my regular opponents is a reputably cheesy, rules-lawyering, gloating sneak - and I love playing against him because I enjoy a challenge and can hold my own in a rules argument. I can also compromise and stop a discussion from escalating to a point where it is uncomfortable.

Coping skills are just as important as general social skills because not everyone has the capacity or inclination to behave in a manner that generally pleases everyone all the time.

Broadly speaking TFGuy and TFGirl is everywhere - in your workplace, maintaining your roads, teaching your children, playing at your golf club and urinating at your pool party. I don't host pool parties or frequent golf clubs so at least I won't encounter all of them - but on the other hand, being so subjective a complaint, you probably won't notice them all anyway. The more you notice TFG, the less tolerant you are.

If you're suddenly beginning to see them everywhere you may have contracted AtfgIDS - it's usually transmitted socially via such mediums as the Internet.

Gaming of all walks and varieties attracts the socially awkward like bees to honey.

When it's CCGs or Wargaming or RPG at least it's social unlike computer games and it's where a lot of those loud mouth or annoying guys that won't shut up about things people don't care about or Mr Know It All learn their social skills from.

Sometimes it just takes someone to say once "I don't think those guys want you interrupting their game so you can tell them old war stories about what your dude in your army did in a game three years ago" - but that's better coming from a friend.

Eventually you'll realise one day that TFG isn't so much of a tard anymore and you don't mind hanging out with them.

....most of the time. Some people are just beyond help :p

One of the southpark makers once said: "Any group of people has a Cartman. If you can't pinpoint who Cartman is, you're Cartman."
This if you think about it, there is always someone filling that role, if mutliple Cartmans meet, the worse one will usually "win". If you go to your FLGS chances are there is an extreme severe case of Cartman there, who will go Berserk if a single of his space mareens dies.

lol theres some really cool points/opinions in this thread

Jidmah wrote:One of the southpark makers once said: "Any group of people has a Cartman. If you can't pinpoint who Cartman is, you're Cartman."
This if you think about it, there is always someone filling that role, if mutliple Cartmans meet, the worse one will usually "win". If you go to your FLGS chances are there is an extreme severe case of Cartman there, who will go Berserk if a single of his space mareens dies.

If Cartman played 40K then I would understand HBMC...

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I guess the OP is just beginning to get out in the world. Hopefully I'm correct and he hasn't just gotten this impression from the internet. TFG is in the eye of the beholder.

You may find a player uncomfortable simply because he is loud, whereas the rest of the group has no problem with his enthusiasm.

You may not like to play against a gamer who is a 'rules lawyer', but certain communities encourage this behaviour.

Not every - but many - groups will contain one or more people who have genuine social problems that stem from any number of issues. You have permission to complain, but I assure you that the more communities (gaming or otherwise) you encounter the more people you will find that bother you in some way or another.

One of my regular opponents is a reputably cheesy, rules-lawyering, gloating sneak - and I love playing against him because I enjoy a challenge and can hold my own in a rules argument. I can also compromise and stop a discussion from escalating to a point where it is uncomfortable.

Coping skills are just as important as general social skills because not everyone has the capacity or inclination to behave in a manner that generally pleases everyone all the time.

Broadly speaking TFGuy and TFGirl is everywhere - in your workplace, maintaining your roads, teaching your children, playing at your golf club and urinating at your pool party. I don't host pool parties or frequent golf clubs so at least I won't encounter all of them - but on the other hand, being so subjective a complaint, you probably won't notice them all anyway. The more you notice TFG, the less tolerant you are.

If you're suddenly beginning to see them everywhere you may have contracted AtfgIDS - it's usually transmitted socially via such mediums as the Internet.

Where can I meet these TFGirls...? I haven't seen one in a GW yet?!

Harriticus wrote:
I think 40k is a bad game to get overly competitive in though, the game owes itself heavily to the fluff/universe and the biggest problems for the game in my mind besides the obvious like the decline of miniture wargaming/the price of the hobby are people simply playing to win and not appreciating any fluff/aestetic aspect, aka those who simply make an army to win tournaments. Even if you don't really like the fluff and are just into the game/modelling, there should be a certain entertainment and fun factor to your army.

Personally, I think that people who make vague, offensive stereotypes like "winners don't appreciate fluff" are the worst sort of TFGs.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Harriticus wrote:
I think 40k is a bad game to get overly competitive in though, the game owes itself heavily to the fluff/universe and the biggest problems for the game in my mind besides the obvious like the decline of miniture wargaming/the price of the hobby are people simply playing to win and not appreciating any fluff/aestetic aspect, aka those who simply make an army to win tournaments. Even if you don't really like the fluff and are just into the game/modelling, there should be a certain entertainment and fun factor to your army.

Personally, I think that people who make vague, offensive stereotypes like "winners don't appreciate fluff" are the worst sort of TFGs.

This. My Iron Warriors army is both fluffy and competitive, yet people still call me a powergamer just because I actually care about how well my army does in play instead of caring ENTIRELY about fluff.

Shock horror, some people actually enjoy winning.

(Insert Charlie Sheen reference here.)

AnGeLsOfDeAtH wrote:Well basically after reading through numerous threads on here and playing at my flgs ive been noticing that there are alot more of TFG's out there. Is this just me or have others noticed and is this turning this game into more of a challenge than a stress relief/ fun time?

The internet does seem to do that. There are certain individuals who seem to exist for the sole reason of causing drama and stirring up trouble and generally being asshats. The ignore button is your friend, unless you are a masochist like me and keep hitting the 'show post' button. I know some people like the challenge of the game and enjoy that type of environment, the trick is to find those who think like yourself and play with them instead of those that stress you out. Using fuel and 3 to 4 hours to play a game or two and be miserable the whole time really sucks, make it as enjoyable as you can. I don't imagine steamrolling a fluff player is very fun for either the competitive or the fluff player.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Harriticus wrote:
I think 40k is a bad game to get overly competitive in though, the game owes itself heavily to the fluff/universe and the biggest problems for the game in my mind besides the obvious like the decline of miniture wargaming/the price of the hobby are people simply playing to win and not appreciating any fluff/aestetic aspect, aka those who simply make an army to win tournaments. Even if you don't really like the fluff and are just into the game/modelling, there should be a certain entertainment and fun factor to your army.

Personally, I think that people who make vague, offensive stereotypes like "winners don't appreciate fluff" are the worst sort of TFGs.

I'm sorry but that clearly is not what he is saying. He made it very clear he was talking about people with no appreciation for the fluff. And NOWHERE in his post does he say people who win don't appreciate fluff. Surely there is a middle ground, one where we don't have to call each other TFGs

I agree with the thread title. This game would be way better if there was no one else playing it.

Ive seen a couple of girls at the local GW/clubs.

again some ok, some are the annoying type!

Dakkadan wrote:I'm sorry but that clearly is not what he is saying. He made it very clear he was talking about people with no appreciation for the fluff. And NOWHERE in his post does he say people who win don't appreciate fluff. Surely there is a middle ground, one where we don't have to call each other TFGs

I agree entirely with Dash.

He stated 'simply playing to win and not appreciating any fluff/aestatic aspect, aka those who simply make an army to win tournaments'.

Pretty straight forward and clear for folks that don't wear rose colored glasses.

There is middle ground, but unfortunately the middle ground gets distorted and gets much smaller by the folks wearing the rose colored glasses.

Overly competitive people will ruin anyone's day. They need to validate their life somehow, and some choose to do so with little plastic men pretending to fight.
I'm lucky in that I have a very large group of friends that play the game and several of us have tables at our houses, so we have no need for our FLGS, other than buying our stuff their to support them. Everytime I'm in there I thank Jeebus that I never have to play some of those guys. Hearing them argue and nit pick rules at the top of their lungs almost incites me to violence.

The game is supposed to be fun, so keep playing those you have fun playing with and tell the others to go feth off.
Try to find a group of friends you like, build your own tables and play the game with them.

But, if you want to play in large tournaments though, you're just going to have to deal with their existence.