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NagothDaCleaver wrote:Overly competitive people will ruin anyone's day.

I bolded the important bit. Playing competitively is fine. Playing to win is also fine. Playing to win in such a fashion that you come across as a massive jerk is bad, especially in a hobby that is still as niche as ours is. Obviously if you go to tournaments and what-not then you're all but setting yourself up to meet some of those types of players, so I guess those of us who aren't that big into tournaments perhaps get of lighter than others?

I personally think that GW should incorporate Warmachine's page 5 mantra on all their future BRB publications...

L. Wrex

Op, your name is obnoxious

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:

NagothDaCleaver wrote:Overly competitive people will ruin anyone's day.

I bolded the important bit. Playing competitively is fine. Playing to win is also fine. Playing to win in such a fashion that you come across as a massive jerk is bad, especially in a hobby that is still as niche as ours is.

Exactly,
Healthy competition is expected and encouraged. It is the overly competitive that can kiss off. I'm playing this game to have fun, I want to win, but it is certainly not the most important moment in my life. If I lose...I lose, so long as it was a fun game than I don't care.

I find that players who do not play to win are at least as annoying as players who play only to win.

Playing to win does not require one to be TFG any more than being TFG requires one to play to win.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:Overly competitive people will ruin anyone's day. They need to validate their life somehow, and some choose to do so with little plastic men pretending to fight.

Yeah? I'm a competitive as it gets. I've never found much challenge locally, so spend thousands of dollars to travel around the country to rub peoples' faces in the dirt (or to get my own rubbed in the dirt).

I'm guessing that you're not particularly skilled at 40k, and have had your army of little plastic men beaten into the ground one too many times and are now angry at all of us?

Hyper-competitive people play FOR THE LOVE OF THE CHALLENGE. Let me be the one to burst your bubble. I'm 30 years old, a formerly decorated army officer, have an Ivy League education from the most academically challenging school in the country (so says the Princeton Review anyway) that I paid for with sweat and blood (orphans don't have parents to give them scholarships). These days, I'm happily married, have no kids, have expensive toys, make enough money to do ANYTHING I want...I get to travel all over the country playing 40k because I want to. Exactly what do you think I need to validate? I play competitive 40k for the love of playing competitive 40k.

I don't keep trophies, I give away my prizes for winning tournaments as often as not, and if I'm playing a scrub, I get out an uncompetitive list.

Three questions I ask before every non-tournament game:
1. Do you know who I am?
2. Rate your tactical skill on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best 40k player in the world.
3. Is there an army you'd prefer to play against?

If they don't think they are Horus Reborn, or at least as gifted as Abbadon, I don't pull out the curb-stomping tools. You haven't been given the same courtsey by your local competitive players, but your bitter cynicism about why competitive people play 40k is misplaced, misguided, and offensive. The WORST part of 40k is when you're curb-stomping some hapless guy, you feel bad about it...and he doesn't care to hear about how to improve his own game. Then he gets sulky, angry, and is more likely than not to start some drama when you aren't there about how cheesy and WAAC you are. Despite the fact that you brought CLOSE COMBAT NECRONS to fight against his Razorspam netlist.

People play 40k for different reasons, but all of them end up being "fun." I can't wait to go home tonight; my wraiths are finally finished painting (flower wraiths for the Garden of Silence); they have brown roots, green bodies, yellow faces, black eyes, bloody claws, and the finishing touches tonight will be poking their heads through small fabric flowers to make them look like daisies.

I have this army to deal with people who have your attitude about people like me. So I can stomp on their bitterness and expose them as a self-delusional fraud. First I beat the crap out of them with my Necrons. Then we switch sides and I beat the crap out of the Necrons with their army.

Overly competitive people don't ruin anyone's day. Spiteful people ruin EVERYONE'S day, as does turning impotence into anger at someone else for exposing it, and all that jazz.

TFG is not the competitive player in your shop.
TFG is the guy who cheats because he's not good enough to compete.
TFG is the guy who causes animosity because he's not good enough to compete with the competitive player.

i did not say people who play to win are TFG, i said overly competitive people definitely are.

Being overly competitive is more of a personality flaw, the kind of guy who has to 'one up' any story you tell, or he feels he has to be better than everyone at the most mundane of things. Like he'll say he can vaccum the carpet faster and better than you, or he can tap a fork on a table faster than you...
That kind of crap.

I do have to agree with Dash, there are players out there who are just simply good and are a blast to play with.

Whilst on the other end of the spectrum there will be people who are WAAC and try and be a pain with the rules to give them an edge (i.e. A unit is behind LOS blocking terrain, I can see his foot! I can shoot him!) or people who will try and bend the rules to their favour. Those are the guys to watch out for.

@Dashofpepper
You certainly jumped to alot of conclusions. Have fun pushing people face in the dirt.

Op, your name is obnoxious

Way to contribute to the conversation.



You just have to ignore those people, they are everywhere. Make a few friends, game with them, meet new people, weed out the bad guys. Simple as that.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:@Dashofpepper
You certainly jumped to alot of conclusions. Have fun pushing people face in the dirt.

That first sentence of yours in your OP was pretty conclusive.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:@Dashofpepper
You certainly jumped to alot of conclusions. Have fun pushing people face in the dirt.

He does have a little bit of a point. Asking someone "do you know who I am?" before playing them would be a little demoralizing and demeaning to people who are not pro-players. Who cares who you are? If I'm there for fun, let's just have fun! Why do I have to read your resume before I can play you?

Dashofpepper wrote:

NagothDaCleaver wrote:Overly competitive people will ruin anyone's day. They need to validate their life somehow, and some choose to do so with little plastic men pretending to fight.

Yeah? I'm a competitive as it gets. I've never found much challenge locally, so spend thousands of dollars to travel around the country to rub peoples' faces in the dirt (or to get my own rubbed in the dirt).
<snip>

If you didn't need to validate yourself why would you make a long drawn out post bragging about your personal skills in 40k and achievements in life while berating other player's skills?

Agreed. My first thought when asked a question like that would probably be "some pompous windbag, I imagine". What I would actually say would probably be something along the lines of "No and I don't particularly care to." But I guess not everyone can have tiger DNA.

As for level of academic challenge, that would depend largely on the degree.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

NagothDaCleaver wrote:@Dashofpepper
You certainly jumped to alot of conclusions. Have fun pushing people face in the dirt.

He does have a little bit of a point. Asking someone "do you know who I am?" before playing them would be a little demoralizing and demeaning to people who are not pro-players. Who cares who you are? If I'm there for fun, let's just have fun! Why do I have to read your resume before I can play you?

I don't tell people who I am if they don't know who I am. But its something I need to know - is my potential opponent just looking for a game, or are they looking to challenge Dashofpepper? If they know who I am, and they're wanting to challenge me, then getting out my Necrons isn't the game they're looking for.

I have a Dashofpepper shirt. That question comes in many forms. As often as not, "Like the shirt?" tells me if they know me or not. Or "Have you seen my name anywhere?"

Its a far better approach than just bringing my meanest game to every game regardless of whether such is needed against that opponent. There's no intimidation, no "Well, let me tell you all about who I am!" - just a random off-question to find out if this is going to be a serious game or not.

Gun fighters and a friendly game of cards...

Many people have guns, most are not "gun fighters".

Many People play cards, most are not "The Gambler".

When one is 'serious business', you have to be the way Dashofpepper is talking about.

I fault him nothing, and if we ever played I would be cordial and learn as much as I could from the experience.

Reminds me of a line from a book, "I am an undrawn Grandmaster of the game and you can not loose well against me, no matter the form. But as with all my children, I will play this game or another with you everyday that you are here, and in time you will learn to loose well, and you may even learn to loose brilliantly." And then the response, "And if in time I learn to win... however badly?" The Grandmaster laughs with admiration, then I shall retire and make you Grandmaster in my place! (slightly paraphrased)

Wow. Dashofpepper, would like some salt to season that MASSIVE chip on your shoulder?

I know guys who are in the forces, I know guys that are quite rich, I know guys who are highly ranked and highly successful in just about everything they turn their hand to from martial arts to business. None of them feel the need to wander around ramming down people's throats how awesome they are.

I'm kinda glad you're in another country.

I play with highly competitive people at times. They're nice. They're patient with me whilst I'm still learning the game. They may beat the pants off me, but they're not TFG. Because they'll give me tips, let me know nicely when I screw something up. Let me take brutally stupid moves back after explaining to me why. Laugh and have a good time over the gaming table.

That's the difference between a competitive player and the overly competitive TFG.

They're not OVERLY competitive. OVERLY is "over" "more than" "an over-abundance of" not 'high but normal levels of competitiveness'.

So dashofpepper, before jumping to conclusions to make yourself feel good by slandering other people, feel free to tell me I'm a noob, feel free to have a go at me for having a small, half painted army, feel free to laugh at me cos I lose seventy-five percent of my games.

Cos I don't care. I'm into 40k to have fun.

ITT: Dash stroking his record size ego and waving it around

sourclams wrote:Every store has TFG. If you don't know who TFG is at your store, it's probably you.

Phew! Good thing this high pitched WOTR playing kid who keeps trying to command this Dark Eldar guy while yelling "DOWN WITH THE BLOOD GOD!" just showed up. If he didn't I'd have to point all five fingers at myself

You may not like what Dash had to say...but he has a huge point.

VERY good 40k players could care less about "Overly" competetive players.

VERY good 40k players that love fluff could care less as well.

I've been playing this game in stores, with friends and national tournaments now since 87, and the only players I've seen that complain about someone being "overly" competetive are ones that just got tore a new one on the tabletop.

Sounds like sour grapes to me too. After all...how satisfying is it to CURB STOMP an OVERLY competetive player? I doubt one would complain much about that....truthfully anyway.

Umm.. all I can ascertain from this thread, and to say it as inoffensively as possible so I don't get a fearsome rebuttal, is that obviously different players take this game more or less seriously. I also think that a lot of the sour grapes from losing come from people who are competitive themselves, look at any competitive sport.

And I say this because I'm fairly competitive, and I hate losing. However, I like to think I am well mannered enough to not be rude or come out with some kind of sour-grapes, objectionable comment to whoever has beaten me. Maintaining this attitude is helped, at least in part, by the fact that I know this is just a game, no one actually lives or dies, or goes onto hardship, as a result of what has just happened on the tabletop. I try and keep things in perspective, no matter how badly I have been drubbed. I have other ways of confirming my self-worth, my thymos or whatever. For the most part, I try and stay away from the tables where this is not the case.

There are a lot more important things in our lives, and in a sense it is a testament to the luxuriant lifestyles of the modern world that we can get so worked up about something which is ultimately completely inconsequential, other than as a pleasant way to pass the time.

Peace and good will to all men

No!!!!!!

I should probably be clearer. I don't mind people being competitive. After all, you have your army and you're trying to beat their army.

I don't mind that people take 40k seriously. Taking a hobby seriously can take it to a whole new level.

I don't personally play in tournaments but I still think tournaments are a very good thing. (I've done my dash on competitive scene with hobbies. Not going there again).

I certainly have nothing against flying all over your respective country to play and compete. I regularly fly interstate for two of my other hobbies, WoD larp conventions and martial arts seminars/championships and 'back in the day' used to for CCG national comps, too.

It's the ATTITUDE that changes a person from being a competitive player to TFG, which is where I took issue with Dashofpepper. His seemingly appalling "i'm so great cos and you suck" attitude. If that's not what he meant, then perhaps he should remember that text doesn't convey nuance because it's certainly how it came across.

So what I've taken from this thread is there's normal players, TFGs, and Dashofpepper.

Deadshane1 wrote:You may not like what Dash had to say...but he has a huge point.

VERY good 40k players could care less about "Overly" competetive players.

VERY good 40k players that love fluff could care less as well.

I've been playing this game in stores, with friends and national tournaments now since 87, and the only players I've seen that complain about someone being "overly" competetive are ones that just got tore a new one on the tabletop.

Sounds like sour grapes to me too. After all...how satisfying is it to CURB STOMP an OVERLY competetive player? I doubt one would complain much about that....truthfully anyway.

I have a friend who is a WAAC player and he is no fun to play against. I don't care how competetive you are, but have a bad attitude about like Dash is obnoxious.

Bragging about how good you are at 40k is on par with bragging about good you are at any trivial game be it Magic or WoW. Most people will just ignore it, but when it turns into "Oh, not only am I awesome, but you're a bad player" it gets a little absurd and that is exactly what Dash is doing in this thread.

I agree with Loki.

But what makes a TFG? IMO its that guy thats a jerk to everyone, and plays without fully knowing the rules and plays to win at all costs, including cheats. Is that what he is to everyone else?

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I agree with Loki.

But what makes a TFG? IMO its that guy thats a jerk to everyone, and plays without fully knowing the rules and plays to win at all costs, including cheats. Is that what he is to everyone else?

That's what he is to me.

Good cool, Amaya.

So back to the actual topic of the thread, I've not been in 40k scene that long, but other groups/hobbies/scenes I've been in, I've found the longer you're in it, the more immersed you become into it, the more TFGs you become aware of. Sometimes it's just getting to know them more, you know how someone can seem like your total bff when you meet them and they're the best thing since sliced bread but after six months you begin to hate the way they do that thing or their attitude on this topic, etc.

I really only know the guys in 40k who are already friends of mine and the staffers of the stores I regularly visit though, not the local scene here at large and don't have that kind of time frame OP was referring to. But the other customers who are happy to chat to other enthusiasts at the LGS are always friendly enough. And yes, I know who the TFGs in my group are :p (phew - that means it's not me! Yay!)

CadianCommander wrote:

It's the ATTITUDE that changes a person from being a competitive player to TFG, which is where I took issue with Dashofpepper. His seemingly appalling "i'm so great cos and you suck" attitude. If that's not what he meant, then perhaps he should remember that text doesn't convey nuance because it's certainly how it came across.

Or, perhaps you should read what I write and take it at face value instead of inferencing and interpreting it for your own means and then braying poor conclusions all over the thread? Why aren't you jumping down the throat of the guy who SAID that ridiculous and offensive generalization which made me post in the first place? I said three things.

1. The statement "Overly competitive people...need to validate their life somehow and choose to do so with little plastic men pretending to fight" is overly generalized, idiotic, and a testament to a bitter player.

2. Overly competitive people play for the love of the challenge. I'm overly competitive. Truthfully, if I need to shove it down your throat - then here: I probably know more 40k gamers than you. I probably know more hyper-competitive gamers than you. I probably play against more "overly competitive gamers" than you. So YES...I am more qualified than the miscellaneous rabble in here to espouse my OWN reasons for gaming, and the reasons my FRIENDS game. We *are* this stereotype.

3. There's only one step above "overly competitive" and "hyper-competitive" which is WAAC cheater. If that was the intended meaning, he would have said so. He did not.


If all you get out of that is "Dash has a "I'm awesome and you suck" attitude", then you have gak for reading skills. Which is quite believable based on your writing literacy. I'm not calling you names - I'm noting a strong correlation between your reading and writing skills. Yes...this is not a cozy tone. Yes, this is confrontational. YOU stepped up, and threw down the insults.

You said that you appreciate people who give you tips and let you know nicely when you screw something up. I do the same thing in games all the time. Here's one for the forums: You just screwed up and trolled me because you can't assemble the words I write into a coherent thought and respond dispassionately, and you need to remember that just because you *have* a keyboard doesn't mean you need to punch your fingers across the keys. Massive chip on the shoulder? Pot, meet kettle.

Battle Brother Lucifer: Amazingly useless post you made there. See the above advice. Please stop feeling the urge to type something when you have nothing useful to say.

Both of you clowns: Delete your rubbish so that I can do the same. I have an annoying habit of defending myself against people who attack me.

I've never played dash. But from what he's said he doesn't seem to be a TFG. He may be egotistical, or he may just be proud of what hes accomplished. He seems from that one post on this thread, to just be a competitive guy and chose WH to express that. I've played a few TFG when i used to play magic. This guy went all over the nation, playing in tournements. But then even when he was playing people brand new to the game, he'd always pull out his tournament decks and then he would curbstomp the new guy, myself included. Never played him again. Then there are people who play all over the nation in tournements, and would pull out a starter deck, and then teach you how to play better. Thats the difference IMO between a TFG competitive player, and a competitive player. One only plays to crub stomp people. the other plays to win because he's good at the game, but also will teach people how to play better.

Amaya wrote:

I have a friend who is a WAAC player and he is no fun to play against. I don't care how competetive you are, but have a bad attitude about like Dash is obnoxious.

Bragging about how good you are at 40k is on par with bragging about good you are at any trivial game be it Magic or WoW. Most people will just ignore it, but when it turns into "Oh, not only am I awesome, but you're a bad player" it gets a little absurd and that is exactly what Dash is doing in this thread.

Amazing. You didn't even READ what I wrote did you.

75% of my posting on Dakka is an effort to help people, educate them, make them more competitive, finesse their armies, tune their skills...

1% of my posting is fun and giggles.

The other 24% is spent fending off people whose entire purpose on Dakka is to contribute noise, static, offense, and make things that are useful to read hard to find.

Oblivious, I getcha on so many levels. You wouldn't believe the times people would try to hose me trading because "I'm a girl so obviously I only play Magic cos my bf does" or think they were going to wipe the floor with me in tournaments for the same reason (to their detriment, I'd use their attitude against them), or people that would come away laughing after creaming a noob in a tournament. Disgusting behaviour. Esp as being in Aus, sometimes they were people down in the city who lived rural so had limited cards and limited experience. Then you'd get the guys like us who would whisper where the judges couldn't hear helpful corrections to mistakes they'd make like "untap your dudes" even though it'd be to your detriment, or would throw in extras when trading to give them a leg up.

Dash - get over yourself. Whatevs, no longer care. If you're not the person you're coming across as, great. If you help people out, then that's awesome.

Again with the assumptions though. Almost everyone around me has been into 40k since the original Rogue Trader days so don't give me that tosh.

You are still missing the point of Competitive and OVERLY competitive. OVERLY is too much. A flaw, a problem, over the top. I still don't know why everyone needed the biography of your life just to prove a point of a discussion about TFG and it's relation to over-competitiveness. That's where you fell down.