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 Tomsug wrote:
What makes me always said is T4 of the MA Big Mek. In compare to T7 of the warbosses, it' s a huge difference. Why they call him BIG?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don' t give him more than medium

What warboss aside from Ghaz has T7?

zoltan88 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
What makes me always said is T4 of the MA Big Mek. In compare to T7 of the warbosses, it' s a huge difference. Why they call him BIG?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don' t give him more than medium

What warboss aside from Ghaz has T7?

Boss on bike, yeah it should be T6 by the usual process but he has a better T star than the Deffkilla boss for whatever reason. Though even the Deffkilla can have T7 with a trait or relic I believe.

zoltan88 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
What makes me always said is T4 of the MA Big Mek. In compare to T7 of the warbosses, it' s a huge difference. Why they call him BIG?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don' t give him more than medium

What warboss aside from Ghaz has T7?

Motowarboss. But you' re right, regular one is just 5. I' m painting ghazzy and next motowarboss right now so I get little bit overexcited myself But the message is still valid. T4 has every second hummie...

It's possible that the WB on Warbike is showing that Warbosses in our next codex may get to be T6 to go with their S6. Whether that trickles down to the Ork units below them has yet to be seen, though that would make sense with boyz now being both S4 and T4. Nobz becoming S5 and T5 (which would therefore include Big Meks and Weirdboyz) would be a viable stat boost that makes them tougher without just throwing on more wounds or bespoke rules to compensate.

From the sounds of things DE are getting some nice stuff so Xenos aren't been hosed by this edition. Still can't wait till their book is out and GW announces some more codexes. (assuming they use the same pattern of announcing/hinting at a batch of books at once)

So what styles of lists are you guys running these days?

I'm running my battlewagon list at the moment and it's solidly okay, but certainly needs some work. I'm curious as to what other people are running and what people think their lists strengths and weaknesses are to see if I can use that to develop mine further.

Personally i'm running a Deathskull triple killtank list backed up with some boyz to help cast Mech seizures and 2 min meganobz squads in trucks to help secrure the midfield. Backed up by a big Smashagun unit to pick off key targets.

Before that I was running a buggy heavy Freeboota list, also with a big smashagun unit to start of the chain. Also occasionally a trio of nauts with Kustom jobs under freebootaz. But losing specialist detachments hurt. The Kustom Ammo stratagem made that list sing.

T5 nobs would be interesting and also make total sense imo

Also puts another notch in my opinion were getting "Tuff Boyz" not a new boy model (give'm the old Nob profile and then beef up nobz/bosses)

I still think we need a super heavy infantry option (not literal lords of war, just a step above Meganobz) A few armies have them, such as ogryns, centurions, oblitorators, grotesques, kinda tyranid warrors and the like. Something that's just a few steps down from being a character or monstrous creature while still being a great sink for buffs of any sort. It feels like orks, a faction obsessed with being the biggest and flashiest should have them. And honestly nobz just feel sort of tame when compared to primaris in both model and fluff.

Tuff Nobz

...just saying lol

Let's be honest. They'd likely be named "Adjectiveverb Adjectivenoun" and sound terrible.

"Skullcrusha BiggaNobz" or "Grotkicker UgeNobz" would fit that bill

 Grimskul wrote:
It's possible that the WB on Warbike is showing that Warbosses in our next codex may get to be T6 to go with their S6. Whether that trickles down to the Ork units below them has yet to be seen, though that would make sense with boyz now being both S4 and T4. Nobz becoming S5 and T5 (which would therefore include Big Meks and Weirdboyz) would be a viable stat boost that makes them tougher without just throwing on more wounds or bespoke rules to compensate.

Nob warbikers still are T5 though...

Sadly we only have DG as a hint on how much the FW book authors knew about upcoming codices, but the greater blight drone already had all the stat changes of DG incorporated - extra attack, better WS/BS and rules that plugged in well despite almost everything being completely reworked.

There is a non-zero chance of battlewagons going to 3+ armor and gunwagons becoming BS4+ though, and buzzgob went to T5 and 4 attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
I still think we need a super heavy infantry option (not literal lords of war, just a step above Meganobz) A few armies have them, such as ogryns, centurions, oblitorators, grotesques, kinda tyranid warrors and the like. Something that's just a few steps down from being a character or monstrous creature while still being a great sink for buffs of any sort. It feels like orks, a faction obsessed with being the biggest and flashiest should have them. And honestly nobz just feel sort of tame when compared to primaris in both model and fluff.

Honestly, if you apply the terminator changes to MANz, they should go to 4 wounds. That's all the super-heavy infantry you'll ever need.

GW also seems to be bent on giving everyone sergeant style models or vastly improving the existing ones, so the new git might be an elite character with a bunch of abilities tacked on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
So what styles of lists are you guys running these days?

I'm running my battlewagon list at the moment and it's solidly okay, but certainly needs some work. I'm curious as to what other people are running and what people think their lists strengths and weaknesses are to see if I can use that to develop mine further.

When I'm playing orks (I'm not doing that a lot right now, DG are just way more fun), it's usually deathskulls buggies backed by big guns: morkanaut, a gunwagon/kannonwagon, trukk boyz for troops and MANz. I'm trying to reduce the number of vehicles that want to rush ahead, because it always feels like half the army is stuck in a traffic jam during the first two turns. That was made blatantly clear to me when one of my regular opponents used the orbital strike stratagem on me, and I was unable to get even half the units out of the blast radius. It didn't lose me the game, but taking 15+ mortal wounds from a stratagem is nothing to whif at.

Writing this makes me want to try a morkanaut, zagzap and a kannon weagon in one army. Might also give lootas another chance. Look at me, I'm the gunline now!

 Afrodactyl wrote:
So what styles of lists are you guys running these days?

I'm running my battlewagon list at the moment and it's solidly okay, but certainly needs some work. I'm curious as to what other people are running and what people think their lists strengths and weaknesses are to see if I can use that to develop mine further.

I've been enjoying an infantry heavy deffskullz list.

Deffkilla trike
warboss
weirdboy
60 boyz
10 grots
10 nobz
6 MANz
3 squads of kommandos
10 tankbustas + 4 squigs in reserves
1-2 mek gunz
3 deff dreads w/ 3 KMBs + 1 klaw

Great w/ engage, scramblers, raise banners, domination. Everything except heavy is obsec. I haven't played anyone that can table me yet due to increased durability as deffskullz. Strategy is just to overwhelm the board with bodies and rack up the points early.

I wanted to make a Bad Moon list since i got my hands on 15 tankbustas and 6 squig bombs (although 15 might be too much), but next to having tankbustas, i dont know what other kind of key units fits in this army. My tankbustas would be the unit i use "showing off" on i believe its called, on, and im not sure if they should come in for 1 CP as strategic reserve from the sides, or be sitting inside a battlewagon with forktress. Of course i would ditch 1 squig then as a battlewagon cant house 21 models.

I dont have any lootas. Bad Moon lists are they infantry heavy or vehicle heavy? Does one go large blobs of boyz for massed shooting? Im having a bit of a hard time deciding what i need and what makes sense.

Beardedragon wrote:
I wanted to make a Bad Moon list since i got my hands on 15 tankbustas and 6 squig bombs (although 15 might be too much), but next to having tankbustas, i dont know what other kind of key units fits in this army. My tankbustas would be the unit i use "showing off" on i believe its called, on, and im not sure if they should come in for 1 CP as strategic reserve from the sides, or be sitting inside a battlewagon with forktress. Of course i would ditch 1 squig then as a battlewagon cant house 21 models.

I dont have any lootas. Bad Moon lists are they infantry heavy or vehicle heavy? Does one go large blobs of boyz for massed shooting? Im having a bit of a hard time deciding what i need and what makes sense.

Mass of shoota boyz with rerolls is mass of nothing with rerolls. Skip it. Tankbustas and Lootas works propably the best. It' s hard to find a unit with a mass shooting in our codex to use mass rerolls of one. And there are almost none, that are mass strong shooting. And if you reduce the filtr to INFANTRY because of Showin off startegem, just these two can work.

 Tomsug wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I wanted to make a Bad Moon list since i got my hands on 15 tankbustas and 6 squig bombs (although 15 might be too much), but next to having tankbustas, i dont know what other kind of key units fits in this army. My tankbustas would be the unit i use "showing off" on i believe its called, on, and im not sure if they should come in for 1 CP as strategic reserve from the sides, or be sitting inside a battlewagon with forktress. Of course i would ditch 1 squig then as a battlewagon cant house 21 models.

I dont have any lootas. Bad Moon lists are they infantry heavy or vehicle heavy? Does one go large blobs of boyz for massed shooting? Im having a bit of a hard time deciding what i need and what makes sense.

Mass of shoota boyz with rerolls is mass of nothing with rerolls. Skip it. Tankbustas and Lootas works propably the best. It' s hard to find a unit with a mass shooting in our codex to use mass rerolls of one. And there are almost none, that are mass strong shooting. And if you reduce the filtr to INFANTRY because of Showin off startegem, just these two can work.

right. And ill be using showing off on my tankbustas untill they die. It feels like shoota boys would be thematically correct to have but if its bad then i guess i take them in smaller troves. Should they even remain shoota boys or slugga boys in a bad moon list?

The filter doesnt have to be only infantry. Im just looking at lists for bad moon in general.

But i just dont know what to fill out the rest of the rooster with. every time i try i fall short on units that makes sense to pick. Should i get gorkanauts for their many shots? gunwagons? I dont know. I often fall back, unconsiously, to my up close and personal units like: oh i need to have room for Mega Nobz, and bonebreakas etc.


I can make Evil Sunz, Goff and Deathskulls lists, but im fairly bad at picking correct units that benefits in a bad moons list. Also freebotas i guess but thats another story (except mandatory flash gitz maybe and badruk)

Statistically, anything with 12 or more shots benefits more from bad moons than deffskullz reroll. So if you want to take shoota boyz, take shoota boyz. 12 shoota boyz in a trukk is 24 shots so it doesn't necessarily have to be blobs of 30. This also means morkanauts, stompas, da boomer and SAG and kannonwagon but only if they are targeting units with 11+ models, lootas, flashgitz, deff dreads with 4 big shootas (not recommended), etc. Every unit doesn't have to be geared towards the kultur though. I'd also throw some units in there to help you with secondaries like kommandos and/or gretchin. Some durable melee units would be nice to hold your front line. Your meganobz would do the trick. Note, the SAG with the bad moons warlord trait is pretty solid. If you go that route, you'll also be doing a dread waaagh specialist detachment which means you can make your morkanaut shoot twice with the kustom ammo strat.

If you are running 15 tankbustas, i'd throw em in a battlewagon personally. 2CP to deep strike plus 2 more CP for showing off is quite ridiculous. Also, the battlewagon could get you close enough for the extra stikkbombs strategem to throw 15 tankbusta bombs. Note: you can combine this strategem with showing off to do 22 wounds on average to a T8 target aka knights.

I would also look into gargantuan and regular squiggoths if you want to have some real fun. They are the only transport with the "howdah" rule that allows units embarked to shoot enemies that are in engagement with the squiggoth, and also if the squiggoth moves, falls back, or charges but does not advance, the units embarked count as having remained stationary. You could tellyport a regular squiggoth in with 10 lootas inside that can shoot into melee. Could be fun.

I dont have a regular Squiggoth but i do have a gargantuan one. Its expensive, but tankbustas up there do sound like fun.

For an alternative "deepstrike" you could put the Tankbustas in tactical reserve and make them enter the side edge of the map for 1 CP rather than deepstriking them for 2CP, as the line is drawn at 9powerlevel, and 15 tankbustas is 8.

And thanks. Ill give it a look. As orks, i find it easier to make a CC army with some ranged support, rather than making a shooting army, with some CC and objective taking support. Not sure why

Beardedragon wrote:
I dont have a regular Squiggoth but i do have a gargantuan one. Its expensive, but tankbustas up there do sound like fun.

For an alternative "deepstrike" you could put the Tankbustas in tactical reserve and make them enter the side edge of the map for 1 CP rather than deepstriking them for 2CP, as the line is drawn at 9powerlevel, and 15 tankbustas is 8.

And thanks. Ill give it a look. As orks, i find it easier to make a CC army with some ranged support, rather than making a shooting army, with some CC and objective taking support. Not sure why

15 tankbustas is 12 PL buddy.

zoltan88 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I dont have a regular Squiggoth but i do have a gargantuan one. Its expensive, but tankbustas up there do sound like fun.

For an alternative "deepstrike" you could put the Tankbustas in tactical reserve and make them enter the side edge of the map for 1 CP rather than deepstriking them for 2CP, as the line is drawn at 9powerlevel, and 15 tankbustas is 8.

And thanks. Ill give it a look. As orks, i find it easier to make a CC army with some ranged support, rather than making a shooting army, with some CC and objective taking support. Not sure why

15 tankbustas is 12 PL buddy.

Yeees i think im misreading how the power system works.

Thanks for clarifying. Then i would be able to throw 10 tankbustas instead rather than 15 in tactical reserve. Luckily squig bombs dont take power rating so i can still add 4 of those.

Power levels are pointed out in the unit datasheet plainly.
The number in the box is the base value for a default squad size, the text at the top box explains if you add X models the PL is now Y, and if you add XX models the PL is now YY

But Zoltan, you said put tankbustas in a battlewagon and use showing off on them. But you cant use stratagems on embarked units. So driving up and throwing 10 tankgrenades i believe would not be possible.

I Also Think extra stikbomms maxes out at 10 models throwing

Go first or go second?

I used to be go first, but more and more I tend to be go second.

In fact I' m a stoic in nature so I don't care and you can' t do anything with it, but there used to be a stat on goonhammer, orks are about very much go first = win army. Which has some influence on the list. And when I'm loking back I see a lot of changes in my list eliminating the go second death.

1. Play the 9th ed tables with covers.
2. Spam one type of target.
3. Have some invu, doesn' t matter 6++ deathskulls of 5++ kff. Except.....
4. Use 5++ large transport to block LOS

 Jidmah wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
I still think we need a super heavy infantry option (not literal lords of war, just a step above Meganobz) A few armies have them, such as ogryns, centurions, oblitorators, grotesques, kinda tyranid warrors and the like. Something that's just a few steps down from being a character or monstrous creature while still being a great sink for buffs of any sort. It feels like orks, a faction obsessed with being the biggest and flashiest should have them. And honestly nobz just feel sort of tame when compared to primaris in both model and fluff.

Honestly, if you apply the terminator changes to MANz, they should go to 4 wounds. That's all the super-heavy infantry you'll ever need.

GW also seems to be bent on giving everyone sergeant style models or vastly improving the existing ones, so the new git might be an elite character with a bunch of abilities tacked on.

But termies are still just heavy to my mind. And unless they have some special rule like inner circle they still have the issue of not being all that special. Indeed a Kustom shoota and klaw or 2 killsaws isn't all that special compaired to what the average nob can put out. Indeed compared to said super infantry it's pretty tame.

In another room I put forward the idea of Flashgit type models with mega armour and think that would fit the bill. Especially if it's a pair of snazzgun's or a heavier version of the base snazzgun. Indeed the snazzline of weapons could be given the KMB treatment, where once it was just one weapon now it's got a pistol, heavy, vehicle and heavy vehicle variant.

cody.d. wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
I still think we need a super heavy infantry option (not literal lords of war, just a step above Meganobz) A few armies have them, such as ogryns, centurions, oblitorators, grotesques, kinda tyranid warrors and the like. Something that's just a few steps down from being a character or monstrous creature while still being a great sink for buffs of any sort. It feels like orks, a faction obsessed with being the biggest and flashiest should have them. And honestly nobz just feel sort of tame when compared to primaris in both model and fluff.

Honestly, if you apply the terminator changes to MANz, they should go to 4 wounds. That's all the super-heavy infantry you'll ever need.

GW also seems to be bent on giving everyone sergeant style models or vastly improving the existing ones, so the new git might be an elite character with a bunch of abilities tacked on.

But termies are still just heavy to my mind. And unless they have some special rule like inner circle they still have the issue of not being all that special. Indeed a Kustom shoota and klaw or 2 killsaws isn't all that special compaired to what the average nob can put out. Indeed compared to said super infantry it's pretty tame.

In another room I put forward the idea of Flashgit type models with mega armour and think that would fit the bill. Especially if it's a pair of snazzgun's or a heavier version of the base snazzgun. Indeed the snazzline of weapons could be given the KMB treatment, where once it was just one weapon now it's got a pistol, heavy, vehicle and heavy vehicle variant.

Agreed. If it's not bespoke rules, I'd at least like more killiness when it comes to raw stats for the weapons. Kustom shootas should be our equivalent of MC bolters, so AP-1 D2, assault 4. I always found it weird that Snazzguns weren't available to Warbosses. Having a snazz-slugga, a snazzgun, and making the boomdakka snazzwagon's gun a better version of that would be a natural progression.

Honestly I reckon freebootaz are one of the underutilized elements of the ork lineup. That and the hero classes (IE Bosses, painboyz and Meks of different specializations). Just saying, those are the only real ways I can see GW adding new models to without a total rework ala the buggies.

Honestly, I don't really want new units at this point. They should just go an fix everything we already have.

 Jidmah wrote:
Honestly, I don't really want new units at this point. They should just go an fix everything we already have.

Isn' t it new codex = new models? But honestly, it' s a pretty short time since the drop of the bunch of the new buggies. So my guess is 2 new single-pose characters, one of them auto-legend and maybe some extension to Mekboy Workshop. So yes, your wish could come true

Well, Drukhari got a single finecast model updated and DG got what amounts to a wargear option for lords and their faction terrain.

I'm game for finecast updates or finally releasing propper koptas, but outside of characters I don't really see any holes in our line. However, I do see 9 datasheets planted firmly in trash tier and quite a few signature units like kanz, warbikers or lootas being barely usable.

Model releases never really have been a big issue for orks, it has always been the rules which were limiting our army selection. In that regard the current status is better than ever, but there still is room for improvement.