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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 21:21:36
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
Some dusty place in Texas
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Traitor Guard appear alot in the 40k fluff, especially the Gaunts Ghosts series, but they are oddly absent from the tabletop game. So what do you guys think? Should Traitor Imperial Guard get thier own codex, or no (assuming they get models, I know though that FW sells renegade guard models)?
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Warhammer 40,000 Armies:
Warmachine/Hordes Armies:
Protectorate, Legion, Skorne
"Something always fires that light that gets in your eyes" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 21:25:48
Subject: Re:Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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As a huge IG fan and a Chaos player in both 40k and Fantasy, we don't need any more variant books. This sort of thing should be left to something else. Either a unified "Chaos" book, or a set of WD rules/ Forgeworld lists, just like Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Black Templars should be.
I'd have no problems with something in WD that said "here's a list of modifications for C:IG to make a renegade/chaos/traitor IG list" or simply allowing more "Official" acknowledgement of the Siege of Vraks Traitor lists or the like, but we have too many codecies already, more than GW can get through in a single edition and roughly a third of the total being superfluous variant books. Leave that to WD and Forgeworld where it belongs.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/04/29 21:28:05
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 21:28:10
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Dakka Veteran
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Way too much human races.
1.) Just use Forge World codex: Siege of Vraks
2.) Use the IG codex
We need the Hrud or some other Xenos race to be added and not another spikey IG faction.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 21:28:49
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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The IG codex does a good job with it's possible buids and players can make damn near everything out of it...
You could feasibly do a SM Scout force from it if you tried hard enough.
However... i do agree SM have too many codeci they shouldn't counter that by removing all of them and boiling it down to FW rules and 1 Codex.
A unified Chaos book would be godly...
Lost and the Damned
Traitor Guard
Chaos Legions (All of them mind you)
Daemons
Almost worth switching sides for...
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 21:32:31
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Sneaky Kommando
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Way too many humans in the game already, so no.
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Da Bonebringaz Waaagh!!! 1500 point - - - - - - - 5W/4L/3D
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http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/StopMattWard |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 21:39:30
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Not really necessary. Codex: Eye of Terror and the Siege of Vraks books both have army lists for them.
I'd use those over just an IG codex, you can include fun conversions like Mutant/Beastmen and traitor guard have a rougher/less-disciplined edge to them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/29 21:40:32
My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 21:47:34
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
Manchester, UK
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I'm having a hard time remembering any traitor Guard in the Gaunt series. I suppose I'm just being pedantic though, and that you meant all of the bloodpact and heretics and stuff. Oh, there was that one guy from "traitor general".
Really though, a seperate codex just means that people would be annoyed when one or the other got some cool new toy in an update. Just look at the stormraven as an example of that.
I think that you could easily model a chaos Guard force out of the IG codex, or even use a FW one if you want a more unique list. I quite like the Tyrant's list from IA9.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 22:40:16
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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My IG army are traitor guard. I have a Nurgle Theme to it so I just modeled them to be nurgly in nature and use the standard IG codex. To make it a bit more "fluffy" my command squads generally have a medic so they get FNP and the commander has a mutation of some kind that is a power weapon. It is better done that way imo.
CSMs though need either 2 books imo, one for renegade chapters and one for Traitor Legions OR options for both in a single book, but I digress...
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Las Vegas Open Head Judge
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings or pride, but your credentials matter. Even on the internet.
"If you do not have the knowledge, you do not have the right to the opinion." -Plato
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 23:04:48
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
A garden grove on Citadel Station
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As an IG player and an ex-chaos player (thanks CSM 4e, you ruined chaos forever), I say nay. Make an admech codex instead.
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ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/29 23:15:25
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ph34r wrote:As an IG player and an ex-chaos player (thanks CSM 4e, you ruined chaos forever), I say nay. Make an admech codex instead. Admech would be a great codex. As long as Matt Ward isn't allowed to write the fluff sections... If he did Mars would be flying through the Warp on the back of the Dragon and there would only be 1000 Adeptus Mechanicus workers making everything for the entire Imperium because for some reason they had to follow the Codex Astartes despite not being astartes and in existence prior to Guilliman. Maybe we should just avoid new codices all together until Ward is fired... Or dead.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/29 23:16:02
Las Vegas Open Head Judge
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings or pride, but your credentials matter. Even on the internet.
"If you do not have the knowledge, you do not have the right to the opinion." -Plato
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/30 00:35:50
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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They shouldn't get access to orders, but instead should gain the Chaos Icons. That would probably suffice.
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/30 01:29:51
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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They already have a codex:
They were in IA5: Siege of Vraks. The 5 Edition Update pdf that can be found on the FW Website.
There is also an FAQ
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/30 01:30:20
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/30 01:55:54
Subject: Re:Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I think a Traitor Guard codex would be awesome. I would be interested to see what kind of special rule they'd get (ie: Orders, Faith, Instinctive Behaviour).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/30 02:01:26
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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I voted Yes, but I feel there are not enough Codexes, I even like the Mini-Ones like the Ond BA one out of WD.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/30 04:43:25
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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I would not be surprised if the Chaos Space Marine dex gets heretics and the likes in their elite slots but don't count as elites, ala Grey knight Henchment.
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Sisters Shelved Until Plastics and Codex
Cygnar Epic Stryker: 50pts
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This is the judgement of the righteous! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/30 07:06:32
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge
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Traitor Guard? No. Lost and the Damned? Yes! There is a difference. Traitor Guard can be handled by the Guard codex just fine. Lost and the Damned would have hordes of mutants, monsters, zombies, and Chaos Marines as Elites.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/30 07:52:42
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos
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They already have plenty, see Seige of Vraks by FW. I believe the lists are fairly well upto date.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/01 19:54:29
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Captain Jack wrote:They already have plenty, see Seige of Vraks by FW. I believe the lists are fairly well upto date.
FW books are fine except you can't use them in a competitive format, so if you wanted Traitor Guard or Lost and the Damned for a tournament you would be stuck using a "counts as" force which has been losing a lot of popularity thanks in large part to the growth in their use by people to gain an advantage in tournaments.
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Las Vegas Open Head Judge
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings or pride, but your credentials matter. Even on the internet.
"If you do not have the knowledge, you do not have the right to the opinion." -Plato
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/01 19:56:50
Subject: Re:Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot
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They Should Just use the IG dex. But i would allow it in a game, for them to assign marks from the CSM codex to guard units. But truth be told, they should just include a unit in the next chaos dex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/01 20:04:12
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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The Lost and the Damned deserves a book, but not Traitor Guard. LatD should include elements of Traitor Guard, but apart from being able to daemons, there's really nothing separating Traitor Guard from Imperial Guard (and on top of that, Daemons are usually associated with LatD moreso than actual Traitor Guard).
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Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/01 20:18:29
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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I sense...a disturbance. A great oncoming storm. Beware the witching hour! Edit: The Imperial Guard codex with a notation that "Conscript Platoons can, by those players willing to, be represented by a swarm of properly armed Plague Zombies". Most other units in the codex can be similarly be re-purposed to represent the forces of darkness.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/01 20:21:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/01 20:48:31
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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I always like to see a codex extending the range.
Lost and the Damned style would be fun - includng all types of stuff like the Bloodpact...
but then:
I would also like a addiitonal IG codex "Regiments of Renown" that would allow the proper creation of the cool regiments like Catachan,Tanith with all their special rules and fluff.
And a proper Adeptus Mechanicus Codex would be awesome - maybe Forge world will fill in the gap in a forthcoming IA book as even I am getting bored with repeated Space Marine Codexes.
Oh and Sisters of Battle, Demiurge, Pirate and Mercenaries one -with Eldar Corsairs, Kroot warbands, Freeboterz, Human mercs, etc.
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/01 20:55:53
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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I don't think they would need a whole new codex but more like a mini-dex that was used alongside the IG dex. This would cover the more 'elite' traitor forces such as the blood pact and could introduce things like reavers tanks (or what AT-77's IIRC), those trundle tanks or what ever those rolling balls which fired blots of electricity were called and chaos marks for guardsmen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/02 00:58:49
Subject: Re:Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Yes...and no.
What kind of 'Traitor Guard' are we referring to? Chaos Guard? Tau Guard? Eldar Happy Friend Guard?
Ideally, here's what I would do:
Step 1) Strike Chaos Daemons as their own army. Roll them in with CSM and 'Cultist Friendly' Guard Conscript equivalents to create a book called "Ruinous Powers".
Why? Because this serves two purposes. One: it creates a "Chaos Legions" book, with the major players of each of the Four Gods(and Undivided) being represented. This isn't just "Oh, your Nurgle Marines are awesome!". This is "Holy crap, that is an awesome Nurgle army. You've got Death Guard accompanying a Daemon Prince, Nurglings and Plaguebearers, Plague Zombies--everything that makes me think Nurgle!". The same can, of course, be done for the other three Powers. Discourage mixing and matching the Four Powers by having a kind of 'synergy' with all facets of your list being mono-God giving a bonus.
You can, of course, for Khorne and Black Legion have some more 'elite' Guard equivalents mixed in, alongside of mutants and the rabble scum that normally follow these kinds of things.
Step 2) Chaos Space Marines receives a facelift. Red Corsairs, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and the Fallen from the Dark Angels all come into play here. This book will focus on the less-Power oriented Renegades.
Here you would have: Formations like the Blood Pact as your 'core' of the force. Allow for an upgrade to have an Aspiring Champion CSM leading the group and you've got a fairly fluffy unit here.
HQ choice could be either a Guard styled leader or SM leader, with the list resembling the fantastic "Tyrant's Legion" list from IA9.
I'm not really sure what to call this book. I'd go with something like "Broken Loyalties" probably.
Mr Morden wrote:I would also like a addiitonal IG codex "Regiments of Renown" that would allow the proper creation of the cool regiments like Catachan,Tanith with all their special rules and fluff.
I hate to break this to you, but the 'special rules and fluff' for these regiments really doesn't translate well to the tabletop. The Catachans and Tanith, specifically, are famed for their stealth assaults and ambushes. To accurately represent this, you'd have to get a special rule saying you get to club your opponent over the head when his head is turned.
The 'best fit' for these guys is, and always really will be, a one-off Veteran unit upgrade.
And a proper Adeptus Mechanicus Codex would be awesome - maybe Forge world will fill in the gap in a forthcoming IA book as even I am getting bored with repeated Space Marine Codexes.
According to Forge World, they're not even sure how to do Adeptus Mechanicus to 'make everyone happy'. People have built it up over and over and over in their mind. There's no way it will please everyone.
I'll assume the part about "repeated Space Marine Codices" wasn't dealing with Forge World. IA9+10 are the first time they've done 'exclusively' Marine books.
Oh and Sisters of Battle, Demiurge, Pirate and Mercenaries one -with Eldar Corsairs, Kroot warbands, Freeboterz, Human mercs, etc.
Sisters of Battle are in the pipe. Demiurg are supposedly going to be done as part of the Tau, which isn't a surprise since they've been in the Tau's background for awhile.
Eldar Corsairs are getting an army list in IA11.
Kroot Warbands are kinda/sorta doable, Freebooterz as well.
Human mercs are something that are much like the Tanith+Catachans: something not really suited for the tabletop by and large as their own force.
They'd be something more like a special unit for Guard/Inquisition.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/02 01:03:02
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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Drop the redundant space marines codices, update all the current ones, then add an AdMech Dex. Simple enough...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/02 01:05:02
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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im2randomghgh wrote:Drop the redundant space marines codices, update all the current ones, then add an AdMech Dex. Simple enough...
No, it's really not. Because what do you get that makes AdMech 'unique' and warranting their own book?
The answer is basically nothing. You'd end up with either a Guard/ SM hybrid book with lots of armoured vehicles and high saves all around or something that is just too confusing to the average player.
AdMech, at this point in time, is best left to the realm of 'counts as' or until they're fleshed out better in terms of their basic line infantry.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/02 01:09:12
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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Kanluwen wrote:im2randomghgh wrote:Drop the redundant space marines codices, update all the current ones, then add an AdMech Dex. Simple enough...
No, it's really not. Because what do you get that makes AdMech 'unique' and warranting their own book?
The answer is basically nothing. You'd end up with either a Guard/ SM hybrid book with lots of armoured vehicles and high saves all around or something that is just too confusing to the average player.
AdMech, at this point in time, is best left to the realm of 'counts as' or until they're fleshed out better in terms of their basic line infantry.
Gun servitors, praetorians, skitarii, electro priests and knights.
Crazy-ass Magos as HQ.
Makes sense to me...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/02 01:14:14
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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im2randomghgh wrote:Kanluwen wrote:im2randomghgh wrote:Drop the redundant space marines codices, update all the current ones, then add an AdMech Dex. Simple enough...
No, it's really not. Because what do you get that makes AdMech 'unique' and warranting their own book?
The answer is basically nothing. You'd end up with either a Guard/ SM hybrid book with lots of armoured vehicles and high saves all around or something that is just too confusing to the average player.
AdMech, at this point in time, is best left to the realm of 'counts as' or until they're fleshed out better in terms of their basic line infantry.
Gun servitors, praetorians, skitarii, electro priests and knights.
Crazy-ass Magos as HQ.
Makes sense to me...
Considering there's absolutely no standardization amongst what "Skitarii" are, it's really not a 'making sense' issue.
It's a "Where the heck do we start from?" issue.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/02 01:24:13
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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No standardization you say? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Skitarii Although to be fair, most of it sounds like conventional Imperial Guard, while the Praetorians just sound like de-furred space Orangutans (Jokaero). If there was an AdMech Codex it would have to focus alot more on the Tech Priests themselves, who's descriptions are more suited to a Tabletop RPG rather than a Tabletop Wargame. The only way to field an actual, fluffy AdMech force would be to go Apoc and use Titans (Titan Legions), but that basically means you can pick whatever you want from any codex.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/02 01:24:49
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/02 01:33:19
Subject: Should Traitor Guard get their own codex?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Haven't we done this before?
Although to be fair, most of it sounds like conventional Imperial Guard, while the Praetorians just sound like de-furred space Orangutans (Jokaero).
Which again makes me ask: what makes it special or unique?
If there was an AdMech Codex it would have to focus alot more on the Tech Priests themselves, who's descriptions are more suited to a Tabletop RPG rather than a Tabletop Wargame. The only way to field an actual, fluffy AdMech force would be to go Apoc and use Titans (Titan Legions), but that basically means you can pick whatever you want from any codex.
This is also ignoring that AdMech forces very rarely deploy entirely on their own.
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
AdMech and Inquisition would have been perfect as part of a larger "Protectors of Man" book. Guard, Codex(read: Ultramarines and their Successors) Marines, and those two would have made for a fantastic book.
But no. Everyone wants everything as stand-alone or it has to have its own book.
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