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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

WHFB getting destroyed could be the best thing that ever happened to it. 7th and 8th were disasters rules/model wise and it seems a lot of fans and GW themselves don't understand why.

A soft reboot could really tighten the setting up.

Video game devs universally do a better job of representing the Warhammer world, I often wish GW would sell WHFB to someone else, so they could do it proper justice.

If TOW fails, it's because GW learned absolutely nothing. The current rules design team is the biggest hurdle, they are incompetent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 02:03:59


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Have you seen what they pay their rules designer team?

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Have you seen what they pay their rules designer team?


Too much?

Seriously though, no I haven't.
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

It's shocking they're as functional as they are. Corporate ghouls.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Goose LeChance wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Have you seen what they pay their rules designer team?


Too much?

Seriously though, no I haven't.


Go check Dakka Discussions. (Very little)
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Goose LeChance wrote:
WHFB getting destroyed could be the best thing that ever happened to it. 7th and 8th were disasters rules/model wise and it seems a lot of fans and GW themselves don't understand why.

A soft reboot could really tighten the setting up.

Video game devs universally do a better job of representing the Warhammer world, I often wish GW would sell WHFB to someone else, so they could do it proper justice.

If TOW fails, it's because GW learned absolutely nothing. The current rules design team is the biggest hurdle, they are incompetent.


I wouldint call it a soft reboot

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





West Lafayette, IN

So we've bypassed any actual news and we're down to "Why WFB sucks and AOS rules", "Why AOS sucks and WFB rules", "BAAWWWWWWWWWWWW, My WaRmAsTeR!!!!!!!111!!!!@!!!", and "Actively work for garbage wages yet somehow is the company's fault"?

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in jp
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

 Just Tony wrote:
So we've bypassed any actual news and we're down to "Why WFB sucks and AOS rules", "Why AOS sucks and WFB rules", "BAAWWWWWWWWWWWW, My WaRmAsTeR!!!!!!!111!!!!@!!!", and "Actively work for garbage wages yet somehow is the company's fault"?


20 whole pages of bypassing, too!
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Just Tony wrote:
So we've bypassed any actual news and we're down to "Why WFB sucks and AOS rules", "Why AOS sucks and WFB rules", "BAAWWWWWWWWWWWW, My WaRmAsTeR!!!!!!!111!!!!@!!!", and "Actively work for garbage wages yet somehow is the company's fault"?


You must be new here. Welcome to every Dakka N&R thread ever to exist about a popular GW title/faction/whatever!
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot




UK

If you think £20k a year* is actually garbage wages in the UK boy do I have some shocking news for you.

*Especially during the time period he was working there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 06:37:55


 
   
Made in au
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller




Down Under

 Bosskelot wrote:
If you think £20k a year* is actually garbage wages in the UK boy do I have some shocking news for you.

*Especially during the time period he was working there.


What time frame was that? I am comparing it to $37,529 in Australian dollars and that is definitely not an amount many people would be looking for.
That said, niche role and as much plastic miniatures you can eat could do a lot to lure people in?

Glory is fleeting. Obscurity is forever.




 
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot




UK

Even now, £20k a year is still above minimum/living wage rates. I'm not saying it was an appropriate wage to be paying someone, but it's still higher than millions of workers in this country currently because neoliberal market capitalism and right wing governments fething suuuuuuck.
   
Made in es
Courageous Silver Helm





Someone with a job generating little value is logically going to get payed around minimum wage. Many many workers are in such situation.
Someone contributing to a company making millions and yearly record profits should get payed accordingly. Like this guy.
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







VBS wrote:
Someone with a job generating little value is logically going to get payed around minimum wage. Many many workers are in such situation.
Someone contributing to a company making millions and yearly record profits should get payed accordingly. Like this guy.


This sort of perception of labour is exactly why we are where we are. Turning 20 cents worth of pig slop into a 5€ burger isn't little value.

Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 lord_blackfang wrote:
VBS wrote:
Someone with a job generating little value is logically going to get payed around minimum wage. Many many workers are in such situation.
Someone contributing to a company making millions and yearly record profits should get payed accordingly. Like this guy.


This sort of perception of labour is exactly why we are where we are. Turning 20 cents worth of pig slop into a 5€ burger isn't little value.


To say that we as a society have an issue is understatement but this isn't the place for such a talk. Of course everyone thinks everyone should be the best and if not they are crap but if no one does the suck jobs no one cares about how can anyone do the great jobs ? That is often forgotten and we only value the winners and look down on the lower rungs even if they are needed even more than the winners for us all to survive and thrive.

That said and off topic, TOW I hope will be very cool and we have more exact info and they actually surprise me in a good way for once.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




VBS wrote:
Someone with a job generating little value is logically going to get payed around minimum wage. Many many workers are in such situation.
Someone contributing to a company making millions and yearly record profits should get payed accordingly. Like this guy.

Funny how without those min-wage workers the company generates ZERO value cause it's closed. As has been amply demonstrated in the States recenly, where the restaurant business is having hard time finding anyone to work, and profits plummet when no one is there to serve forth the eyelid-foreskin mince patties in sugarbuns.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Bosskelot wrote:
Even now, £20k a year is still above minimum/living wage rates. I'm not saying it was an appropriate wage to be paying someone, but it's still higher than millions of workers in this country currently because neoliberal market capitalism and right wing governments fething suuuuuuck.


A quick google says the median wage in the UK is roughly £30k, so 20k is a solid third less than the median. The median is usually a better measure of what your average employee should expect, if you're much below that then your company obviously doesn't value what you do very much and thinks you're easily replaceable.

I don't imagine they'd expect to get competent employees paying that little.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cronch wrote:
VBS wrote:
Someone with a job generating little value is logically going to get payed around minimum wage. Many many workers are in such situation.
Someone contributing to a company making millions and yearly record profits should get payed accordingly. Like this guy.

Funny how without those min-wage workers the company generates ZERO value cause it's closed. As has been amply demonstrated in the States recenly, where the restaurant business is having hard time finding anyone to work, and profits plummet when no one is there to serve forth the eyelid-foreskin mince patties in sugarbuns.


It'll be interesting to see if there's a shuffle around in years to come.

How much those low paying jobs pay isn't just related to how much we value people in those jobs, but also how many people are willing to take them. Maccas can afford to pay employees sweet f-a because if someone quits, they likely got 10 applications to replace them. If no one is willing to take those essential but low paid jobs the salary is going to have to go up.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 09:57:53


 
   
Made in es
Courageous Silver Helm





Cronch wrote:

Funny how without those min-wage workers the company generates ZERO value cause it's closed. As has been amply demonstrated in the States recenly, where the restaurant business is having hard time finding anyone to work, and profits plummet when no one is there to serve forth the eyelid-foreskin mince patties in sugarbuns.


What I wrote would be a "logical" situation, not reality. Hence the situation with the ex-gw rules designe (ie. not getting a more reasonable compensation for what the value generated).
Minimum wage jobs usually rely on a massive influx of people resigned to do such jobs because of low qualificiation/skill/labour market not designed to accomodate everyone. Always has been. If it is fair or not is up for debate but that's just how it goes.
The current situation, as the one you describe in the US (or many other countries for the matter), is not the way things usually work mainly due to stimmies, where people are no longer required to work minimum wage jobs in order to earn a minimum wage. Or if minimum wages are heavily increased by law (such as in this country), offers plummet for low level jobs due to the perceived value of the position (hire 2 to do the job of 3 is a classic). Remove the last year and a half and the situation would be exactly the same it's always been in the labour market.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 10:01:43


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





VBS wrote:
Cronch wrote:

Funny how without those min-wage workers the company generates ZERO value cause it's closed. As has been amply demonstrated in the States recenly, where the restaurant business is having hard time finding anyone to work, and profits plummet when no one is there to serve forth the eyelid-foreskin mince patties in sugarbuns.


What I wrote would be a "logical" situation, not reality. Hence the situation with the ex-gw rules designe (ie. not getting a more reasonable compensation for what the value generated).
Minimum wage jobs usually rely on a massive influx of people resigned to do such jobs because of low qualificiation/skill/labour market not designed to accomodate everyone. Always has been. If it is fair or not is up for debate but that's just how it goes.
The current situation, as the one you describe in the US (or many other countries for the matter), is not the way things usually work mainly due to stimmies, where people are no longer required to work minimum wage jobs in order to earn a minimum wage. Remove the last year and a half and the situation would be exactly the same it's always been in the labour market.


Another factor for people not coming back to work is they've realised their job is not stable. The traditional logic (which I think was always pretty questionable) was the business owner is the one taking all the risk while the employee gets a steady income which is likely going to be less. The pandemic showed that as an employee your income can be just as shaky, so people are less willing to work for someone else and more willing to take personal risks to start their own businesses or gamble on the stock markets.

But all this is pretty irrelevant to the discussion at hand, paying 20k pounds to a rules writer when the median wage is 30k demonstrates how little value the company places on that person. I'd be curious to know if that was person was genuinely in a position to effect the rules or just an easily replaceable grunt, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 10:05:44


 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:

If people dislike the idea of core troops in 40K and WHFB then nobody is stopping them to play other games instead. Core troops are a fundamental design of both games. The day you remove core troops is the day when your army stops looking like an army.


40k had no mandatory core units for two editions.


Presses x to doubt in regards to CSM in 8th and their CP needs.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'd be curious to know if that was person was genuinely in a position to effect the rules or just an easily replaceable grunt, though.

that person wrote/designed Silver Tower and Titanicus on his own (were he also once said that playtesting happened in private at home as he was not allowed to do it during his working hours), and wrote the updated rules for new version of BB

and GW thought of him as an easily replaceable grunt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Presses x to doubt in regards to CSM in 8th and their CP needs.

that some armies needed them to get it working because of other rules is true, but there was no rule that said you must take this one unit before you can take anything else

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 10:16:01


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in rs
Been Around the Block





Would anyone be so kind as to link the GW salary discussion here? I can't seem to find it on any other sub-forums.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





The current situation, as the one you describe in the US (or many other countries for the matter), is not the way things usually work mainly due to stimmies, where people are no longer required to work minimum wage jobs in order to earn a minimum wage.

Amazing how removing the threat of starvation to death results in levelling the playing field between the jobgivers and jobseekers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 10:27:40


 
   
Made in es
Courageous Silver Helm





Cronch wrote:

Amazing how removing the threat of starvation to death results in levelling the playing field between the jobgivers and jobseekers.


Excellent strawman.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Is it? The only reason people work is because they need money to live. The only reason people work low-paying trash jobs is because they have no other option to gain that money (legally, most people are unwilling to break the law). The employers are in a position where if they don't have employees, they just lose profits. If an employee has no job, their physical existence is essentially threatened. The system is inherently skewed towards the people with (surprise) the capital vs those who provide the labor.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 10:34:14


 
   
Made in es
Courageous Silver Helm





It is.


In any case, back on topic. When do people think TOW is going to be released?
I think July 2023 would be good timing, 40 years of the 1rst whfb edition!
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







You guys working to lock this thread? Take it elsewhere please.

   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 kodos wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'd be curious to know if that was person was genuinely in a position to effect the rules or just an easily replaceable grunt, though.

that person wrote/designed Silver Tower and Titanicus on his own (were he also once said that playtesting happened in private at home as he was not allowed to do it during his working hours), and wrote the updated rules for new version of BB

and GW thought of him as an easily replaceable grunt


Well, he might have been, it's really hard to gauge what someone's position really is without a lot of insight into the company. People will often have an overinflated view of their importance (not saying that's the case here, just talking generally).

It's the people that steer a project successfully that are worth a lot of money, then the senior editors and creative folk are also really important.

You can have a replaceable grunt doing the nitty gritty work of writing, playtesting and so on if there's an experienced non-replaceable person directing their actions and doing the final editing.

There are the employees that might be essential to the running of a company, and those people might work hard and put in a lot of effort and sometimes they might even be well educated, but also if they quit you could get a dozen other people to fill that role, then there's the employees that if they quit will completely derail the company.

EDIT: I finally found the thread and see we are talking about James Hewitt, one would assume he was pretty important given his name was often mentioned, but still hard to guess how replaceable he might have been. 20k definitely sounds too little to pay someone who is doing anything more than grunt work.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 10:59:45


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




then there's the employees that if they quit will completely derail the company.

Protip, it's never the overpaid Good Old Boys at the top. They're utterly replaceable because they clone them at the Business Boy Sunday Classes.

Anyway, Old World Good, core tax bad, game will disappoint people who want 1:1 copy of the old Warhammer Experience because you can't enter the same river twice and half the Experience is in your memories.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 11:05:16


 
   
Made in eg
[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


EDIT: I finally found the thread and see we are talking about James Hewitt, one would assume he was pretty important given his name was often mentioned, but still hard to guess how replaceable he might have been. 20k definitely sounds too little to pay someone who is doing anything more than grunt work.


I made more money than that as a temp 20 years ago. And I could be replaced with a phone call.

Granted people want to work for GW, it's like the movies, they'll work for nothing just to get a toe in. But as we've all seen writing fun, balanced, tests and proofread rules ain't like dusting crops kid.

You can be sure GW's accountants, lawyers, web designers and factory techs are properly paid, it's a shame their rules writers aren't held in the same esteem.

 
   
 
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