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Made in us
World-Weary Pathfinder






I remember reading some where that the healing goddess of the Eldar was held captive by Nurgle. He experimented with different decaying effects and disease's on her to see how long it would take for her to adjust or heal the effect. The only reason though I'm saying this is I read it awhile ago... I'm trying to remember the goddess name at the least. Though I would love if anyone knows of this fluff context and were I had read it. I think it was ether the 4th Edition Eldar codex or perhaps Slaves to Darkness... Anyway... Any help from Eldar Hardliners on this mystery would be much appreciated, as well as any information you know on this goddess as well...

If you can help thank you!

-Sincerely Viri
   
Made in pl
Kelne





Warsaw, Poland

Isha, the mother Goddess.

But the story is spread by only 1 minor craftworld.
   
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Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Its in the Chaos Daemons codex. As Alkasyn said, her name is Isha and the whole story is folklore from one minor craftworld, there is no credible evidence that its true.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/06 08:12:59


   
Made in us
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I think its kind of funny when I have an issue Gore you seem to have answers for me. Though, I'm glad you could tell me were this fluff was cause I tend to read a lot of chaos fluff but I favor the Slaanesh study then Khorne around Eldar history along with the laughing god and the likes of the Dark Eldar as you know of your post on my DE list. I think the only thing you and I differ on Gore is the chaos read which is funny.

Though thank you both for letting me know of her name I found her on http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Isha finally so this will help me a bit in my direction with a DIY I plan around her. I'm just trying to gather as much information as I can before I proceed into things, so its good that you both were critical in your posts on what was said when and if its a story or a myth what not.

-Sincerely Viri
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Viridian wrote: I think its kind of funny when I have an issue Gore you seem to have answers for me. Though, I'm glad you could tell me were this fluff was cause I tend to read a lot of chaos fluff but I favor the Slaanesh study then Khorne around Eldar history along with the laughing god and the likes of the Dark Eldar as you know of your post on my DE list. I think the only thing you and I differ on Gore is the chaos read which is funny.

Great minds think alike

Annoyingly, the only information on this "legend" anywhere (afaik) is the paragraph in the Daemons book. Hopefully it will get expanded on in the next Eldar codex.
   
Made in pl
Kelne





Warsaw, Poland

Viridian wrote: I think its kind of funny when I have an issue Gore you seem to have answers for me. Though, I'm glad you could tell me were this fluff was cause I tend to read a lot of chaos fluff but I favor the Slaanesh study then Khorne around Eldar history along with the laughing god and the likes of the Dark Eldar as you know of your post on my DE list. I think the only thing you and I differ on Gore is the chaos read which is funny.

Though thank you both for letting me know of her name I found her on http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Isha finally so this will help me a bit in my direction with a DIY I plan around her. I'm just trying to gather as much information as I can before I proceed into things, so its good that you both were critical in your posts on what was said when and if its a story or a myth what not.

-Sincerely Viri


Not to Necro, but additional information on the Goddess is avialable in High Elves fluff from Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The Eldar and Elves share certain mythology traits.
   
Made in se
Wicked Warp Spider






Ios

Lexicanum is a good site for a quick lookup.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Isha

Isha is central to Eldar, as she is their creator. Cegorach and Khanie are important gods, but they did not partake in the race's creation.

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
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Executing Exarch




Alkasyn wrote:Not to Necro, but additional information on the Goddess is avialable in High Elves fluff from Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The Eldar and Elves share certain mythology traits.


Yes and no. The WFB elves and the 40K eldar share names and roles for their deities, but that's where the similarities end. The elven pantheon is alive and well, while the eldar pantheon is largely destroyed, with Khaine shattered across the craftworlds. Additionally, as of yet there's been no mention of elven corrolaries for Cegorach (the Harlequins' Laughing God).
   
Made in se
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Ios

Add to it that Khaine in fantasy is all about Dark Elves, whereas in 40K the Dark Eldar have turned their back on Khaine.

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
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Junior Officer with Laspistol




Perth/Glasgow

In fantsy the Dark elves worship Khaine with some Slaanesh on the side,
The High ELves still worship Khaine but have learned moderation

Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing 
   
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Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Mahtamori wrote:Add to it that Khaine in fantasy is all about Dark Elves, whereas in 40K the Dark Eldar have turned their back on Khaine.

Not true, Khaine is still very popular with DE, he's the only one of the Eldar gods that they acknowlage alongside the dark muses. DE see all the eldar gods as being weak (since Slaanesh killed them) but they respect Khaine for stepping up and beating the hell out of him (even if he did eventually loose).

   
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Ios

Gorechild wrote:
Mahtamori wrote:Add to it that Khaine in fantasy is all about Dark Elves, whereas in 40K the Dark Eldar have turned their back on Khaine.

Not true, Khaine is still very popular with DE, he's the only one of the Eldar gods that they acknowlage alongside the dark muses. DE see all the eldar gods as being weak (since Slaanesh killed them) but they respect Khaine for stepping up and beating the hell out of him (even if he did eventually loose).

Maybe I have it the other way around. I've been trying to find the reference for where the Dark Eldar turned their back on Khaine, but it's not like I have a lot of material, or even good directions, to go through here at work. At the very least his entirety was manifested among the Craftworld Eldar exclusively, so there's no doubt which Eldar faction is loyal to him.

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:In fantsy the Dark elves worship Khaine with some Slaanesh on the side,
The High ELves still worship Khaine but have learned moderation


The dark elf background has changed slightly. Now the dark elves worship a number of elven gods who collectively represent the darker sides of the elven psyche. The Brides of Khaine are merely the most prominent (by far) cult, and Malekith has declared himself to be the avatar of Khaine. Instead of a single cult that serves Slaanesh, the various cults that wholeheartedly embrace the darker elven gods are referred to as the Cults of Pleasure.


Slaanesh still gets hir due (as Slaanesh embraces all forms of excess, which is essentially what the cults are), but only in an indirect fashion.
   
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Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






North of your position

DE dont worship them cus they see all Eldar gods as dead. There are a few alive though...

   
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Wait a second, if Khaine is shattered, storyline wise would it be possible that Isha, or someone else, could unite the pieces to make khaine return? Possibly to our world instead of the warp? O_o
   
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Executing Exarch




Amanax wrote:Wait a second, if Khaine is shattered, storyline wise would it be possible that Isha, or someone else, could unite the pieces to make khaine return? Possibly to our world instead of the warp? O_o


Khaine is actually currently in the physical universe. The Avatar has on occasion literally been referred to as a daemon of the material world. But he's scattered across all of the different craftworlds in order to protect himself from Khorne and Slaanesh.

In order to reunite his shards, you'd first have to convince all of the craftworlds to give them up. And then you'd have to do something about the possibility that Slaanesh would merely pick up where s/he left off.
   
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Eumerin wrote:
Amanax wrote:Wait a second, if Khaine is shattered, storyline wise would it be possible that Isha, or someone else, could unite the pieces to make khaine return? Possibly to our world instead of the warp? O_o


Khaine is actually currently in the physical universe. The Avatar has on occasion literally been referred to as a daemon of the material world. But he's scattered across all of the different craftworlds in order to protect himself from Khorne and Slaanesh.

In order to reunite his shards, you'd first have to convince all of the craftworlds to give them up. And then you'd have to do something about the possibility that Slaanesh would merely pick up where s/he left off.


Exactly! And as far as convincing the craftworlds to give up their shards... In the time of the Rhana Dandra you tell me a better time? On top of that, Slaanesh can't physically manifest in the material realm (Or so it's believed) so at that point... Khaine would literally be a full powered god in this world, and there wouldn't be much that could be done to stop him that I can think of. o_O

Crazy stuff right there. >_>
   
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Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Amanax wrote:Wait a second, if Khaine is shattered, storyline wise would it be possible that Isha, or someone else, could unite the pieces to make khaine return?

Maybe...If she wasn't dead
Remember that only 1 minor craftworld think that she might have survived because of an ancient tale, it's hardly concrete evidence that she wasn't slaughtered along with the others.

   
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Small Wyrm of Slaanesh





Unfortunately a complete Khaine may be impossible as I believe there is a story within Codex: Daemons that mentions the infiltration of a greater Slaanesh daemon into a craftworld (cannot remember the name) and opens the craftworld to the slaughter of the awaiting daemons. It mentions in the story that the daemon possesses the inert Avatar of Khaine. I don't have my codex at hand but I am 95% sure on the fluff but whether the Avatar of Khaine could support the possession of greater daemon indefinitely or leave permanent damage to the shard of Khaine (seeing as Slaanesh was not able to corrupt the shards as far as we know) is unknown.

"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." - Jack Handey 
   
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Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Several craftworlds have been destroyed as well, so their Avatars have most likely been lost along with them.

   
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Bleh. True.

It was just fun to think about for a moment
   
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Executing Exarch




Amanax wrote:On top of that, Slaanesh can't physically manifest in the material realm


And yet that doesn't seem to help the Dark Eldar much...




   
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Eumerin wrote:
Amanax wrote:On top of that, Slaanesh can't physically manifest in the material realm


And yet that doesn't seem to help the Dark Eldar much...






That's because they're scared of Slaanesh eating their souls >_>
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Amanax wrote:That's because they're scared of Slaanesh eating their souls >_>


What does being scared have to do with having your soul sucked out?

You argued that Slaanesh wouldn't be able to devour the soul of a reconstituted Khaine because he'd be in the physical realm. Being in the physical realm doesn't stop Dark Eldar from getting their souls devoured. Ergo, being in the physical realm wouldn't help Khaine either.
   
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Ios

When an Eldar dies, his soul is released out of the bounds of the physical realm. Typically, the Eldar soul will seek the souls patron entity (which in case of Harlequins is Cegorach and in case of Exoidites is the homeworld's gaia equivalent). For Craftworld and Dark Eldar, this means the soul is free pickings for Slaanesh. This is why Dark Eldar sacrifice to protect their own soul, and why Craftworld Eldar carry stones to keep their souls in the physical realm.
Sort of.

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
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Well For the most part when a Dark Eldar dies his soul is released and then Slaanesh will consume it, though some might find away around this considering how killing and being sadistic improves there health( pg. 7 DE 5th under portrait) Though dying actually I think believe they are consumed by Slaanesh. There are still etche's of Dark Eldar who worship Slaanesh but very very very lightly there is the novel Crimson Tear's which I'm reading right now that apparently has a Dark Eldar Slaaneshi Pirate Prince named Kaharhaedros but he actually dies trying to make a new Dark Eldar city.

Mahtamori wrote:Craftworld Eldar carry stones to keep their souls in the physical realm. Sort of.


Well with carrying Spirit Stone's you have to mention Mahtamori about the Infinity Circuit(pg. 14 Eldar 4th) with death and how Spirit Stone's are transferred to the Circuit as a preserving after life to avoid Slaanesh's grasp. With Exodites its a bit different and deals more with the world spirit. They are taken below the earth and there spirit stone is broken on the world spirit altar.(pg. 14 Eldar 4th)

Though my own current focus is Isha and anything related to her from this minor maiden world. Does anyone know were this world is by name or location?

-Sincerely Viri

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/18 23:39:17


 
   
Made in us
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Mahtamori wrote:When an Eldar dies, his soul is released out of the bounds of the physical realm. Typically, the Eldar soul will seek the souls patron entity (which in case of Harlequins is Cegorach and in case of Exoidites is the homeworld's gaia equivalent). For Craftworld and Dark Eldar, this means the soul is free pickings for Slaanesh. This is why Dark Eldar sacrifice to protect their own soul, and why Craftworld Eldar carry stones to keep their souls in the physical realm.
Sort of.


Where to start... Dark Eldar have their soul gradually torn away by Slaanesh while they're still alive. Their perpetual sacrifices are an attempt to keep enough soul on hand to avoid getting sucked completely dry. Staying within the webway slows the process down (which is why the Dark Eldar remain in Commoragh except for very brief trips out to conduct raids), as do performances by the Harlequins.

Once a dark eldar dies, the process is dramatically sped up and a dead dark eldar has roughly 24 hours before the damage inflicted on his soul becomes irreversible.

Craftworld eldar follow the Path system to avoid catastrophe while living, and use soulstones to protect themselves when they die. The soulstones are then placed into a craftworld's infinity circuit.

A World Spirit is somewhat similar to an Infinity Circuit, though the details are quite vague. While still living, Exodites embrace a more laborious lifestyle than the other eldar cultures do in order to keep Slaanesh away.

Pretty much any and all "information" regarding how Harlequins do it (and I've seen just about everything - ranging from soul binding to demonic possession) is blatant misinformation from who knows where. GW hasn't provided any information on what exactly it is that the Harlequins do - except to indicate in some texts that most Harlequin souls are shielded by Cegorach.
   
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Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Amanax wrote:
Eumerin wrote:
Amanax wrote:On top of that, Slaanesh can't physically manifest in the material realm


And yet that doesn't seem to help the Dark Eldar much...




That's because they're scared of Slaanesh eating their souls >_>


Not strictly true, most Dark Eldar don't even except that they do all their messed up sadistic evil stuff to stave off Slaanesh any more, and just think they do it because they want to. DE are beyond the point of caring, they can basically become immortal if they get in with a good Kabul and can do whatever sick messed up stuff they want and it makes them physically more healthy. They have nothing to fear from slaanesh because they don't have to die, just doing what they want to do (and have become very good at doing) basically makes them immortal.


Eumerin wrote:Pretty much any and all "information" regarding how Harlequins do it (and I've seen just about everything - ranging from soul binding to demonic possession) is blatant misinformation from who knows where. GW hasn't provided any information on what exactly it is that the Harlequins do - except to indicate in some texts that most Harlequin souls are shielded by Cegorach.

As far as I know, Quins are fairly similar to the craftworld Eldar. They have a restrained life dancing about the webway and guarding the black library with occasional trips to the dark city or a craftworld. They don't indulge in the insane blood orgys of the Dark Eldar, so Slaanesh cannot feed off of them whilst alive (as with CWE). The only difference is that when a Quin dies, their soul is snatched and protected from Slaanesh by Cegorach, rather than going into a soul stone.

   
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Gorechild wrote:As far as I know, Quins are fairly similar to the craftworld Eldar. They have a restrained life dancing about the webway and guarding the black library with occasional trips to the dark city or a craftworld. They don't indulge in the insane blood orgys of the Dark Eldar, so Slaanesh cannot feed off of them whilst alive (as with CWE). The only difference is that when a Quin dies, their soul is snatched and protected from Slaanesh by Cegorach, rather than going into a soul stone.


That pretty much matches up with what's been published. Gav Thorpe has hinted that there's more to it, and that there's a reason why eldar aren't lining up for a soulstone-free life. But he hasn't provided any further details and he's only an official GW guy when he's writing Black Library novels these days.

Unfortunately, the rumors are another matter entirely, and it appears that a number of them have been started and quickly snowballed out of control. iirc, Lexicanum had (and may still have) false information claiming that part of the process of becoming a harlequin involved voluntarily allowing yourself to be possessed so that the daemon could be exorcised out of you, and that solitaires were eldar with whom the exorcism hadn't been entirely successful. Or something along those lines. It's been a while since I saw it last.
   
 
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