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If the Inquisition,Ultramarines and friends stopped being such a bunch of insufferable nerds and said "Oye Helbrecht, form the largest crusade the Imperium has seen in ten thousand years and go into the Eastern Fringe and "GET S*** DONE"...how long would it take them to completely wipe out the garbage that is the Tau Empire?

-They're already under attack by Orks and Tyranids.
-Massive BT Fleet based on fighting mobile warfare.
-6,000ish existing battle-brothers plus countless Neophyte meatshields.

My guess is that "Mission Accomplished" would be on the deck of the Eternal Crusader in a year or two.

Less than a year. That's a whole six chapters worth of marines that are specialized in conquering large swathes of space, the Tau would have no chance.

Oh I forgot the Tau's marvelous Doctrine. They retreat and over-extend our resources. Fat lot of good that'll do against the Black Templars.

The BT are spread across the Imperium so it would take a while for them to get together.
It's also more than likely they would be joined by elements of other chapters.
So not that long...
Sicarius led a chapter sized force and could have gone further into Tau space but they were recalled.

purplefood wrote:The BT are spread across the Imperium so it would take a while for them to get together.
It's also more than likely they would be joined by elements of other chapters.
So not that long...
Sicarius led a chapter sized force and could have gone further into Tau space but they were recalled.

Of course, according to other version of the events, Tau merely pulled back after overextending their logistics and fortified their newly acquired worlds...

Any way, if the Templars actually gathered to unified force (highly unlikely, given how busy they are with heretics and Daemons etc), lots of other Imperial authorities would be extremely worried and would probably step in in some forceful fashion.

I think the fluff has it that there is simply too much going on atm and the Tau aren't much of a threat... yet. I think they took over a whole, what, 8 worlds from the Imperium!? They're a pain in the Ultramar, but with the Tyranids and other things happening elsewhere... well.

Backfire wrote:

Of course, according to other version of the events, Tau merely pulled back after overextending their logistics and fortified their newly acquired worlds...

Nothing plays more to the Guards tune than razing fortresses....
Tau still belief the IoM isn't that big, seen in "savage scars".
Overextending the logistics of a fleet based crusading force will not work. The BT fleet is selfsustaining.
Last time BT cared for Tau, Nimbosa was cleansed.

Backfire wrote:
Any way, if the Templars actually gathered to unified force (highly unlikely, given how busy they are with heretics and Daemons etc), lots of other Imperial authorities would be extremely worried and would probably step in in some forceful fashion.

Helbrecht seems busy with nids, as per codex Tyranids.

The only intercepting authority could be inquisiton ( ordo xenos, Kryptman ), as they kept the Tau as tools against the nids.
But if the tooll is malfunctioning.....

Well, the Tau remind me of Russians in the way that they force the enemy to over extend themselves just as the Russians did with Napoleon, Hitler, and i think there was someone in between those two.

But if the BT had Imperial Colonists and a few dozen Guard Regiments, well, Kalamari sounds delicious.

Movac wrote:If the Inquisition,Ultramarines and friends stopped being such a bunch of insufferable nerds and said "Oye Helbrecht, form the largest crusade the Imperium has seen in ten thousand years and go into the Eastern Fringe and "GET S*** DONE"...how long would it take them to completely wipe out the garbage that is the Tau Empire?

-They're already under attack by Orks and Tyranids.
-Massive BT Fleet based on fighting mobile warfare.
-6,000ish existing battle-brothers plus countless Neophyte meatshields.

My guess is that "Mission Accomplished" would be on the deck of the Eternal Crusader in a year or two.

Wouldn't be about two years just travel time. I was looking at the map the other day and the tau are really out there. You also have to start on the border worlds make sure the humans there aren't trading or talking with the tau. Then as you push the tau back, they no longer have to fight the tyranids or orks at their border you are fighting them. Then their is always the chance that some force will get mired down in a guerrilla warfare delaying the battle even more.

A full on invasion is a little harder then the IoM thinks. If I was to do it, I would use nothing but fleet battles. Blockade the tau worlds, destroy their trade routs and cut off commutation, make short raids to kill eternals, and then wait. With out constant contact with each other, the tau would fall apart.

OR, the BT could steam-roller over the Tau, it's a lot easier than you seem to think. The IoM launches crusades and invasions all the time, the Tau would be no different.

There would be freak warp storms that prevent the crusade from destroying the Tau, and fifteen years later, the Tau will have rebuilt the Webway.

Or something. In all seriousness, they'd go extinct for the Greater Good.

Quick question, how large was the Damocles Gulf Crusade, in terms of manpower?

Dozens of Battle-Barges with more than 6000 marines? Won't even have to bother landing, just burn everything from orbit.

nomotog wrote:

Movac wrote:If the Inquisition,Ultramarines and friends stopped being such a bunch of insufferable nerds and said "Oye Helbrecht, form the largest crusade the Imperium has seen in ten thousand years and go into the Eastern Fringe and "GET S*** DONE"...how long would it take them to completely wipe out the garbage that is the Tau Empire?

-They're already under attack by Orks and Tyranids.
-Massive BT Fleet based on fighting mobile warfare.
-6,000ish existing battle-brothers plus countless Neophyte meatshields.

My guess is that "Mission Accomplished" would be on the deck of the Eternal Crusader in a year or two.

Wouldn't be about two years just travel time. I was looking at the map the other day and the tau are really out there. You also have to start on the border worlds make sure the humans there aren't trading or talking with the tau. Then as you push the tau back, they no longer have to fight the tyranids or orks at their border you are fighting them. Then their is always the chance that some force will get mired down in a guerrilla warfare delaying the battle even more.

A full on invasion is a little harder then the IoM thinks. If I was to do it, I would use nothing but fleet battles. Blockade the tau worlds, destroy their trade routs and cut off commutation, make short raids to kill eternals, and then wait. With out constant contact with each other, the tau would fall apart.

http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html - This map?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html - This map?

The one from the rule book, but thanks for showing me this it is getting a book mark.

Nerivant wrote:There would be freak warp storms that prevent the crusade from destroying the Tau, and fifteen years later, the Tau will have rebuilt the Webway.

Or something. In all seriousness, they'd go extinct for the Greater Good.

Quick question, how large was the Damocles Gulf Crusade, in terms of manpower?

Dont have exact numbers, but I was about 500 or so Space Marines, 2-3 Guard Regiments and 3 scout Titans. the exact quotes were in another thread but I can't find them.

iproxtaco wrote:

Dont have exact numbers, but I was about 500 or so Space Marines, 2-3 Guard Regiments and 3 scout Titans. the exact quotes were in another thread but I can't find them.

That's... not much.

Were fought by just Dal'yth's forces, or did they receive reinforcements from another sept?

If the templars put their mind and full resources to it, they could pretty much beat anyone's face bar a full hive fleet or ork WAAGH without much support

Nerivant wrote:
Quick question, how large was the Damocles Gulf Crusade, in terms of manpower?

According to 3rd Ed Tau codex, about 5 companies of Marines from various Chapters, 19 regiments from IG, some Titans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:OR, the BT could steam-roller over the Tau, it's a lot easier than you seem to think. The IoM launches crusades and invasions all the time, the Tau would be no different.

Sure, but they don't all succeed...

I'm sure the other systems from which all those Black Templars would be recalled can hang in there just fine in the meantime. The other kindly SM chapters aren't really doing anything important and can pick up the slack!

"Sure guys, you've been holding back Waagh! Cornholla for the last 4 years, but go ahead to glass some lizard-goat's world from orbit, we'll be dandy! It's not like our hives and forges are important to the Imperium or anything. I think it's an open secret you guys just hung around for our fine beaches and comely wenches."

Also, gathering 6k space marines worth of crusading fleets is likely going to take a lot of time *time during which they'd not be defending imperial terroitory NOW attacking Tau, being effectively useless), given how far and wide they can be spread and the weird nature of Warp travel. Sure, they could all just head to Tau space...and arrive piecemeal and less than effective.

Not saying it wouldn't work...eventually. But I suggest reading the Taros Campaign in the IA books to see how wars of conquest can stall (sure, it's not GW canon-fluff, but it's remarkably well-written).

I think its common sense, that Imperium could destroy the Tau-Starempire whenever it would want. It just sees no priority in that. Even more than the Tau are now under Tyranid pressure, there would be not much gained to conquer these worlds just to defend it from Tyranids right after that.

Space marines in the IoM are basically equivalent for handful of cop patrols attempting to patrol entire CONUS. Sure, they could give up their chase for bank robbers and wanted fugitives and instead go and arrest some suspected petty thief in Arkansas, but it would seem like rather crappy prioritizing.

1hadhq wrote:

Of course, according to other version of the events, Tau merely pulled back after overextending their logistics and fortified their newly acquired worlds...

Nothing plays more to the Guards tune than razing fortresses....
Tau still belief the IoM isn't that big, seen in "savage scars".
Overextending the logistics of a fleet based crusading force will not work. The BT fleet is selfsustaining.
Last time BT cared for Tau, Nimbosa was cleansed.

How bad actually is Savage Scars,after all Andy Hoare(he's not a bad writer,but seriously he shouldn't write about Tau,much less about space combat(it contradicts every source in 40k) the Tau fanboi has written it?

I always wonder how bad would the Tau get stomped if the crusade the size of Sabbat's World crusade was led against them?

nomotog wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html - This map?

The one from the rule book, but thanks for showing me this it is getting a book mark.

Your welcome . Did you notice on the right side of the map- the tiny Tau empire and how it compares in size to the Imperium?

Nerivant wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Dont have exact numbers, but I was about 500 or so Space Marines, 2-3 Guard Regiments and 3 scout Titans. the exact quotes were in another thread but I can't find them.

That's... not much.

Were fought by just Dal'yth's forces, or did they receive reinforcements from another sept?

I recall a quote from this other thread that said the Crusade was slowed at Dal'yth by the 'full might of the Tau military'.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

nomotog wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html - This map?

The one from the rule book, but thanks for showing me this it is getting a book mark.

Your welcome . Did you notice on the right side of the map- the tiny Tau empire and how it compares in size to the Imperium?

It was funny. I was looking where the tau was on the book's map and I was thinking wow there are a lot of imperial worlds in tau space. Then I noticed that the empire was that little box next to where I thought it was. The hand wave given in the book, is that is is a very dense cluster. Still they are tiny.

iproxtaco wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Dont have exact numbers, but I was about 500 or so Space Marines, 2-3 Guard Regiments and 3 scout Titans. the exact quotes were in another thread but I can't find them.

That's... not much.

Were fought by just Dal'yth's forces, or did they receive reinforcements from another sept?

I recall a quote from this other thread that said the Crusade was slowed at Dal'yth by the 'full might of the Tau military'.

That's the vaguest thing I've heard in a long, long time.

My final estimate for this thread; a while.

Its vague I agree but what's your point?

Define a while. When I say "I'll do it in a while" I mean an hour.

iproxtaco wrote:Its vague I agree but what's your point?

Define a while. When I say "I'll do it in a while" I mean an hour.

I can't define "a while" until I know the definition of "full might."

If it meant "everything the Tau can muster, from every sept," then that crusade will wipe out the Tau in twenty minutes and be back in time for tea.

If it meant "everything the sept had at its disposal," then it could take a long, long time.

Tau have been difficult to conquer so far because of there density. Each world needs to be self sustaining, meaning every planet has its own complete army, making the job of pushing through the Tau empire slow, and taxing on resources.

The full might of the black templars could take just about anything out, so the point is a little redundant.

Mr Nobody wrote:Tau have been difficult to conquer so far because of there density. Each world needs to be self sustaining, meaning every planet has its own complete army, making the job of pushing through the Tau empire slow, and taxing on resources.

The full might of the black templars could take just about anything out, so the point is a little redundant.

They have been difficult because in the context the Imperium doesn't care about them,they're a small fish on the galactic scale.Damocles Crusade was also a sector level affair,not the indicator of the full might of the Imperium.

Nerivant wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Its vague I agree but what's your point?

Define a while. When I say "I'll do it in a while" I mean an hour.

I can't define "a while" until I know the definition of "full might."

If it meant "everything the Tau can muster, from every sept," then that crusade will wipe out the Tau in twenty minutes and be back in time for tea.

If it meant "everything the sept had at its disposal," then it could take a long, long time.

I really do need to find this thread as there was a similar debate. I'd take 'full might' as everything the Tau could muster but that's just an interpretation. As weak as the Tau may be compared to the Imperium, such a small Crusade would likely have been badly beaten if it was literally every soldier, vehicle, navy ship and auxiliary they had. If it took that much to halt the Crusade then the Tau are even weaker than I thought.