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KingDeath wrote:Can anyone tell me how a bunch of Black Templars with perhaps three to five dozen capital ship equivalents ( let's say roughly 2 battlebarges and 6 strikecruisers per chapter times 4-6 ) of varying sizes is going to conquer a territory the size of an imperial sector? I know, the Spacemarine spank is pretty strong with some people, but i have yet to see any even remotely beliefable reason why such a small number could conquer a planet, or in our case an empire with roughly a hundred populated planets and colonies ( the number comes from Imperial Armour III page 13, therefore the Tau Empire has roughly the size of the Sabbat sector ), without turning it into glass from orbit.

Exterminatus doesn't require a planet to be 'glassed'. The Imperium are not the Covenant.

Virus weaponry can kill off all the life on a planet and still leave it inhabitable.

So, to make it short. While Spacemarines are perfectly capable of suceeding in short battles against overwhelming odds they will suffer badly in wars of attrition, which every fight to actually conquer fortified territory will sooner or later become. I personaly think that to truly crush the nascent Tau Empire a crusade comparable with the Sabbat Crusade would be necessary. Both deal with with a territory of roughly comparable size against an enemy which is determined and technologaly equal, perhaps even superior in some cases ( warpmagic beyond that what the Imperium dares to field, technology beyond that what the Imperium can regularly field ).

It really won't be in all truths. To 'crush' the Tau Empire without damaging the worlds they inhabit is the issue.

The Sabbat Crusade was executed like it was because it was Imperial territory, with Imperial citizenry, with Imperial religious sites in the mix.

The Tau Empire has none of that. Virus bombing the worlds the Tau inhabit and then terraforming isn't a bad way for it to go.

iproxtaco wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Dont have exact numbers, but I was about 500 or so Space Marines, 2-3 Guard Regiments and 3 scout Titans. the exact quotes were in another thread but I can't find them.

That's... not much.

Were fought by just Dal'yth's forces, or did they receive reinforcements from another sept?

I recall a quote from this other thread that said the Crusade was slowed at Dal'yth by the 'full might of the Tau military'.

It was just the tau forces of Dal'yth, which is a first expansion world. By the wording the imperial forces didn't gain any ground on the planet during the whole crusade.

the crusade ground to a bloody stalemate as the formidable numbers and high technology of the Tau and their Kroot allies thwarted every attempt to capture the system. Many months of terrible fighting ensued with nothing gained on either side.

The lexicanum states that the following were present at dal'yth

Imperial Guard Regiments of the Damocles Crusade

* 17th Brimlock Dragoons Regiment
* 19th Brimlock Dragoons Regiment

Imperial Navy Ships

* Blade of Woe
* Dutchess McIntyre
* Honour of Damlass
* Lord Cedalion
* Niobe (Overlord class Battlecruiser)

Space Marines

* Iron Hands
* White Scars
* Scythes of the Emperor
* Ultramarines
* Black Templars

Rogue Traders

* Lucian Gerrit of the Arcadius3.b
o Oceanid (Rogue Trader Vessel)

So all that was basically forced into a stalemate in the battle for one of the Tau First Phase Expansion worlds, of which there are 5 other first phase worlds.

So in order to actually make headway at a reasonable pace, there would need to be twice the presence of the IOM per first phase planet alone, not including the tau homeworld or the 2nd phase and 3rd phase worlds.

That's a lot of resources when the imperium is already stretched thin. Committing to destroying the tau would retroactively cripple the IOM for at least a time, if not more, depending on how much was lost during the focused conquest of the tau.

Also, it is well know that tau spacecraft are, on average, better when dealing with space combat (but of course, broading actions? Screwed) than the IOM vessels.

So, could the IOM wipe the tau out?

Yea, they sure could, but at what cost?

Dal'yth is, IIRC, the least militarized the first founding worlds. Sa'cea or Vior'la would be able to handle a lot worse.

1hadhq wrote:

nomotog wrote:

Don't forget that the tau learned from the Damocles Gulf Crusade. They are not like the IoM who keep as static as they can. During the crusade the tau modernize a fighter/bomber so it can one shot a titan (I an slightly fuzzy on the exact details. I understand it took a lot of ships and planing, but only one actual shot). Their commanders have also gotten more cunning and ruthless. If the IoM sent out another crusade of the same size, it would not do nearly as well.

There as mistake about the IoM.
The tacticians of the IoM gathered enough data to know what the Tau are able to.
Titans, Flyers and Space marine armor collects a lot of battlefield data.
The tacticians are rarely shown in background, but they exist. Don't underestimate them.
Their department may hold a seat in a war council.

You see I did not know this. From the outside, the IoM looks kind of brain dead with the only people who think being the inquisitors. Still, the tau are advancing their tech quite fast. They are like a time bomb. Unless the IoM takes them out quick (Before they get full warp travel) then they won't be able to. Not that the tau will be able to take out the IoM then. More worlds more problems. The tau will get bugled down themselves.

Neither the Tau nor the IoM has time to wage a decisive battle in that sector, too many Nid incursions. Given that Macragge itself was invaded and that the IoM almost lost an 1/8th of their Empire, both factions have more pressing issues.

Although it is hinted that we will see the largest fight between the two in the Iron Hammer Campaign. Perhaps in the next Tau dex if the rumor of Cuddance writing it is true.

That would never happened, because GW would then ban the tau miniatures and their sales would go down. So...no...

But if the crusade would happened....Tau are strong, and they have lot of allies. But in the end this is 6000 SPACE MARINES...Tau couldn't handle less than 1000 Black Templars at Nimbosa, not to mention that 1 Guard Regiment hold them down that entire time...

In the end they would fall...but not without a fight ( Templar losses would be great, maybe even 40% ).

Brother Coa wrote:That would never happened, because GW would then ban the tau miniatures and their sales would go down. So...no...

But if the crusade would happened....Tau are strong, and they have lot of allies. But in the end this is 6000 SPACE MARINES...Tau couldn't handle less than 1000 Black Templars at Nimbosa, not to mention that 1 Guard Regiment hold them down that entire time...

In the end they would fall...but not without a fight ( Templar losses would be great, maybe even 40% ).

Actually, Brightsword invaded Nimbosa, killed every single living human on the planet, fortified it to the teeth, repelled the intitial invaders, then finally waged a ground war against Space Marines that resorted to playing an attrition battle, something they seldom do. After slaughtering a company of Space Marines and two regiments he was recalled for brutality and the IoM defeated the Tau.

BTs launching a campaign into Tau space unsupported would be eradicated down to the last in a couple of months. Tau have more Battlesuits than BTs have ground troops. The millions of FWs, Kroot, Vespid, Drones, etc would overwhelm a single Space Marine chapter. Even as legions they didn't launch campaigns that foolishly outnumbered.

I personally think the Tau empire, and entire species, would be about on-par with the black templars. As long as the BT don't have support from other assets I.E. titans and guard.

Also, I think the Tau, being dynamic as hell, would probably end up making weapons that are distinctively anti-marine I.E. every suit would have TL plasma, MP, and HWMT.

But then again, Grimaldus alone is as badass as chuck Norris...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:the only reason the Tau are still alive is because Hive Fleet Behemoth and Kraken were approaching and the Imperium needed to deal with the more present threat.


the Damocles Gulf Crusade would have eventually destroyed the Tau through attrition. the Tau don't have the population to fight a war of attrition with the IoM, indeed the concept is unknown to them.


the instant the Tau present a bigger threat then any other race in the sector, they will be destroyed. assuming the Nids don't eat them first.

Actually, the Damocles Gulf crusade expended nearly all of it's resources on Dal'yth prime, just to take a city, without managing to kill any civilians, losing titans, and then was confronted with a fleet several times it's size that could rip it to pieces but then signed an N.A.P. so that they could fight the bugs.

Guys, don't take this the wrong way. But why do you guys hate the Tau so much?

I know you may be thing why I would say such a thing, making me a hypocrite. But the thing is that I don't hate the Tau. I just wanted to open up a discussion on why the people think Tau are good guys. I simply find Tau to be a lesser evil, lesser than Imperium or Eldar but still an evil but not capital EVIL. And to discuss about new evidence for Tau malevolence not to troll Tau players

Though this is mostly because of GW making them mary-sue than anything else.

So why so much hate and why creating threads against the Tau that don't really serve a purpose?

Nerivant wrote:Dal'yth is, IIRC, the least militarized the first founding worlds. Sa'cea or Vior'la would be able to handle a lot worse.

Yeah, If the BT brought no titans, and had no means with which to level cities, the Sa'cea warriors alone would probably wipe out close to 1,000-if not many, many more. Defense in an urban zone with a world mostly devoted to military that specializes in urban combat can only end one way.

I do not hate Tau, I hate when people start talking about Tau like they are all children of Chuck Norris...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Actually, Brightsword invaded Nimbosa, killed every single living human on the planet, fortified it to the teeth, repelled the intitial invaders, then finally waged a ground war against Space Marines that resorted to playing an attrition battle, something they seldom do. After slaughtering a company of Space Marines and two regiments he was recalled for brutality and the IoM defeated the Tau.

BTs launching a campaign into Tau space unsupported would be eradicated down to the last in a couple of months. Tau have more Battlesuits than BTs have ground troops. The millions of FWs, Kroot, Vespid, Drones, etc would overwhelm a single Space Marine chapter. Even as legions they didn't launch campaigns that foolishly outnumbered.

Like this...

would this be a bad time for the Tau players to realize their next codex writer's initials are M.W?

So to add a few things to consider:

the crusade was set up with this in mind:


The size of the sent force was considered enough. Never meant to assail what was there.



Minor. Not standard sized or planned to deal with a empire. Minor.


the retreat of the Tau:


To rely upon tech is a weakness when tech fails.
The tau sent Kroot to stop the spearheads of the crusade from entering the star port, but those were no match for space marines.
Seems the training as a unit disables them to act as individual effectively when cut off.

the deathbringer, instrument of an inquisitor, a fate that Dalyth was spared :
A trillion murdercells quivered with hungry life,as if each and every one tasted the scent of their prey, far below.
The vessel of death, the exterminatus torpedo, waited held securely in a cantilevered launch cradle.
Wait..death was told. Wait and soon you shall feed...

An inquisitor planned it, but was stopped by higher authority and ignoring that, by force. But still this planet was endangered to be
virus-bombed....with everyone on it. Not only the Tau but also the crusade. Such is the way of the radical.

The imperial advance came to a halt when the firebrand cardinal left. The Brimlocks were used to the speeches and lost coherence with the other elements of the imperial forces when they stopped confuzzled.

Tau vs titans:
They ambushed a warhound early on, and that was the only loss. Afterwards the god-machines moved with infantry support to flush out spotters and dispatch suit-teams.
The Tau tried to use stealth suits and fusion blasters to disable the titans at short range.


It was new to both opponents:






Forces involved:

- 1 scythes of the emperor dread. 1 novamarines dread ( 1 dread confirmed disabled )
- rhinos,razorbacks, predators, whirlwinds. a few of each. ( 2 predators confirmed lost. )
- contributions of a dozen chapters. White scars, ultramarines, emperors scythes,iron hands, black templars, subjugators,aurora,novamarines, and more. 200 ~ 300 marines. ( ~ 25 confirmed dead )
- tac squads, assaultmarines devastators.
- Landspeeder squadrons ( 2 LS confirmed lost, crew saved )
- IN thunderbolts as ground support. ( 1 confirmed shot down )
- brimlock 2nd and 4th, rakarshans, stormtroopers, ( a company confirmed destroyed )
- mobile air defence companies ( hydras)
- thousands of guardsmen and hundreds of tanks.
- a warlord.
- 6 reavers, warhounds ( 1 warhound confirmed lost )
- nomad, nova-class frigate, WS
- oceanid, heavy cruiser, RT
- fairlight, cruiser,RT
- rosetta, cruiser,RT
- blade of woe, battlecruiser,IN
- fist of light, strike cruiser , IH
- destroyers and frigates,tenders,tankers,troop transports, IN
- toil of digamma, AM ( carring Legio thanataris)
- droppods (SM), dropships (IN) able to ferry squads, companies etc (1 dropship lost)

- Kroot ( several hundred blown apart in whirlwind salvos, dozens slain in CC, dozens frfsrf 'd, )
- knarlocs, great knarloc ( confirmed dead )
- stealth suits ( a hundred confirmed dead vs titans another hundred confirmed dead vs infantry, )
- suit teams ( heavies and standard pattern, scores of them. )
- skimmers, fishes, skyrays, etc
- fire warriors ( unknown death toll )
- flyers, ( 5+x shot down ) IN had air superiority established
- incoming fleet, (2 vessels and defense stations destroyed,)



the ad mech isn't as dumb as some want us to believe:

the Tau got their asses handed to them on a silver platter and were about to be force fed their own posteriors, but then the Crusade was told they had better things to do then punch a little upstart Xeno race.

Once again, with the exception of virusbombing the planets ( assuming the templars have enough of the Lifeeater and their fleet actually manages to deploy it's exterminatus class weapons ) what enables a few thousand Spacemarines to conquer an entire world? They lack numbers, they lack heavy support ( oh look, a few dozen landraiders and perhaps a few hundred Predators..against a world which can, if their production capabilities are similar to 2end WW earth, produce many thousands of tanks each year ), they lack aircraft and most important of all, they cannot replenish their numbers.
Marines can cripple a world, they can, if deployed properly, devastate the military infrastructure of a world but, thanks to their low numbers, they can never actually conquer it. That job falls to the massive numbers
of the Imperial Guard.

1000 BT to take out third sphere world... So what are they going to use for the other 30 some worlds (and some sources suggest closer to 100) and a lot of them much more heavyly defended than a border world.

Like i said. If they stripped all their chapter worlds of every fighting man and 'relocated' to Tau worlds they'd do it easily. 6000 Marines by them selves? not a hope.

Grey Templar wrote:the Tau got their asses handed to them on a silver platter and were about to be force fed their own posteriors, but then the Crusade was told they had better things to do then punch a little upstart Xeno race.

Last time i checked the Damocles fluff the crusade ended in a stalemate, with neither side actually managing to break trough.

Nerivant wrote:Dal'yth is, IIRC, the least militarized the first founding worlds. Sa'cea or Vior'la would be able to handle a lot worse.

And the Tau pulled a large amount of their entire Empire's defensive capabilities back to Dal'yth.

What's your point?

If the Imperium wanted to kill the Tau, damn the consequences, they'd do it.
You want a fun fact about the Imperium?

This is a bit from the Imperial Munitorum Manual by Graham McNeill, considered 100% canon, that details the supply usage by a single Cadian regiment during the 13th Black Crusade. It was from a turning point during the fighting on Cadia, and was from the fighting lasting a single week to hold a sector of a Kasr.

During the 91st Cadian's recent combat operations during the 13th Black Crusade, lasting a week, they expended 400,000 Lasgun Power Packs, 120,000 ration packs, over 3 million gallons of fuel, 13,300 pints of Type O Negative, and expended enough ordnance to level a continent.

If you really think the Tau can stand that can of knock-down, dragout fighting--Tau players you're delusional.

Brother Coa wrote:I do not hate Tau, I hate when people start talking about Tau like they are all children of Chuck Norris...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Actually, Brightsword invaded Nimbosa, killed every single living human on the planet, fortified it to the teeth, repelled the intitial invaders, then finally waged a ground war against Space Marines that resorted to playing an attrition battle, something they seldom do. After slaughtering a company of Space Marines and two regiments he was recalled for brutality and the IoM defeated the Tau.

BTs launching a campaign into Tau space unsupported would be eradicated down to the last in a couple of months. Tau have more Battlesuits than BTs have ground troops. The millions of FWs, Kroot, Vespid, Drones, etc would overwhelm a single Space Marine chapter. Even as legions they didn't launch campaigns that foolishly outnumbered.

Like this...

Still, 6000 men AREN'T going to destroy a species and conquer well over 100 worlds.

Movac wrote:If the Inquisition,Ultramarines and friends stopped being such a bunch of insufferable nerds and said "Oye Helbrecht, form the largest crusade the Imperium has seen in ten thousand years and go into the Eastern Fringe and "GET S*** DONE"...how long would it take them to completely wipe out the garbage that is the Tau Empire?

-They're already under attack by Orks and Tyranids.
-Massive BT Fleet based on fighting mobile warfare.
-6,000ish existing battle-brothers plus countless Neophyte meatshields.

My guess is that "Mission Accomplished" would be on the deck of the Eternal Crusader in a year or two.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to wipe out the garbage that is the Eye of Chaos? Perhaps the IoM are too weak and badly organised to do that.

1hadhq wrote:So to add a few things to consider:

the crusade was set up with this in mind:

Spoiler:

SS/P360:
When the tau were first encountered, by rogue traders, they were deemed a low level threat.
They were found only in small groups, coreward of the gulf, and usually acting as mercenaries or advisors to planetary governors who had...strayed, to a greater or lesser extent, from the rule of the Imperium. But that was uncovered as a ruse.

They were acting as fifth columnists, ifiltrating system after system in an effort to expand their sphere of influence. The crusade was raised to put that threat down.

Every shred of intelligence and analysis available to us indicated they could hold no more than a handful of worlds. When they were first catalogued, millenia ago, they were no more than over-evolved dromedaries with no technology more advanced than sharp sticks.

The size of the sent force was considered enough. Never meant to assail what was there.

Spoiler:

SS/P68:
In truth, the damocles gulf crusade was a relatively minor undertaking in the grand scheme of the IoM's wars...

Minor. Not standard sized or planned to deal with a empire. Minor.


the retreat of the Tau:

Spoiler:

The tau were disengaging across the entire city, the last of their units falling back on the star port to be evacuated by huge wallowing transports. The Tau were still mounting a defence, but it was poorly coordinated and piecemeal , and the crusade armies were pushing them back on every front. By all accounts, the enemys command and control network had collapsed, and the Tau leaders on the ground had proven ill-prepared to adapt.

To rely upon tech is a weakness when tech fails.
The tau sent Kroot to stop the spearheads of the crusade from entering the star port, but those were no match for space marines.
Seems the training as a unit disables them to act as individual effectively when cut off.

the deathbringer, instrument of an inquisitor, a fate that Dalyth was spared :
A trillion murdercells quivered with hungry life,as if each and every one tasted the scent of their prey, far below.
The vessel of death, the exterminatus torpedo, waited held securely in a cantilevered launch cradle.
Wait..death was told. Wait and soon you shall feed...

An inquisitor planned it, but was stopped by higher authority and ignoring that, by force. But still this planet was endangered to be
virus-bombed....with everyone on it. Not only the Tau but also the crusade. Such is the way of the radical.

The imperial advance came to a halt when the firebrand cardinal left. The Brimlocks were used to the speeches and lost coherence with the other elements of the imperial forces when they stopped confuzzled.

Tau vs titans:
They ambushed a warhound early on, and that was the only loss. Afterwards the god-machines moved with infantry support to flush out spotters and dispatch suit-teams.
The Tau tried to use stealth suits and fusion blasters to disable the titans at short range.

Spoiler:

Tau stealth siuts launched desperate and often suicidal attacks , leaping form high buildings in an effort to board the war-machines.
They swarmed titans and were brushed off when the titan walked through the next building...or stitched off by
friendly fire which cannot threaten a titan... the lack of anti-titan potential was obvious.
A 60 suits purple blood smeared in garish patterns across the upper hull of a titan as the only remainder of their existence...

The titans unleashed holy hell on every tau defence point they encountered, flattening structures hundreds of metres tall and striding through the high walkways, causing hundreds of defenders to plummet to their deaths below.

It was new to both opponents:

Spoiler:

SS/P27:
As the space marines pressed on, it became evident that their assault had achieved some measure of surprise.Either the Tau had not expected the space marines to defeat what forces had defended erinia beta, or they had fatally misunderstood the crusades capabilities.
SS/P271:
the manner of defence made it clear that the tau had not expected any enemy to ever penetrate so deep.
...the space marine were able to bypass strongpoints and render them entirely ineffectual.

Forces involved:

- 1 scythes of the emperor dread. 1 novamarines dread ( 1 dread confirmed disabled )
- rhinos,razorbacks, predators, whirlwinds. a few of each. ( 2 predators confirmed lost. )
- contributions of a dozen chapters. White scars, ultramarines, emperors scythes,iron hands, black templars, subjugators,aurora,novamarines, and more. 200 ~ 300 marines. ( ~ 25 confirmed dead )
- tac squads, assaultmarines devastators.
- Landspeeder squadrons ( 2 LS confirmed lost, crew saved )
- IN thunderbolts as ground support. ( 1 confirmed shot down )
- brimlock 2nd and 4th, rakarshans, stormtroopers, ( a company confirmed destroyed )
- mobile air defence companies ( hydras)
- thousands of guardsmen and hundreds of tanks.
- a warlord.
- 6 reavers, warhounds ( 1 warhound confirmed lost )
- nomad, nova-class frigate, WS
- oceanid, heavy cruiser, RT
- fairlight, cruiser,RT
- rosetta, cruiser,RT
- blade of woe, battlecruiser,IN
- fist of light, strike cruiser , IH
- destroyers and frigates,tenders,tankers,troop transports, IN
- toil of digamma, AM ( carring Legio thanataris)
- droppods (SM), dropships (IN) able to ferry squads, companies etc (1 dropship lost)

- Kroot ( several hundred blown apart in whirlwind salvos, dozens slain in CC, dozens frfsrf 'd, )
- knarlocs, great knarloc ( confirmed dead )
- stealth suits ( a hundred confirmed dead vs titans another hundred confirmed dead vs infantry, )
- suit teams ( heavies and standard pattern, scores of them. )
- skimmers, fishes, skyrays, etc
- fire warriors ( unknown death toll )
- flyers, ( 5+x shot down ) IN had air superiority established
- incoming fleet, (2 vessels and defense stations destroyed,)



the ad mech isn't as dumb as some want us to believe:

Spoiler:

SS/P363:
Ostensibly,the adepts of the machine god were tasked with fathoming the operation of the star ports anti-grav cradles, which would speed up the landing of and liftoff of the hundreds of troop transports that would be soon be in operation immeasurebly. It took the
tech priests less than an hour to master the anti-grav generators, and another for them to begin disassembling at least one for later study.

You forgot to mention the fact that all these Imperial losses were in a fight for a single city.

And that the Tau managed to kill any titans is props to them, considering they have no analogues. I bet this: http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=37&vmcchk=1 could kill SEVERAL titans.

KingDeath wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the Tau got their asses handed to them on a silver platter and were about to be force fed their own posteriors, but then the Crusade was told they had better things to do then punch a little upstart Xeno race.

Last time i checked the Damocles fluff the crusade ended in a stalemate, with neither side actually managing to break trough.

which means the Imperium was winning.

the Imperium takes the meaning of War of Attrition to a whole new level.



and Space marines don't fight a conventional war.

they would use Thunderhawks and Drop Pods to launch lightining strikes to weaken and disorganize the enemy.

knocking out Etherials, fuel depots, Factories, ammo dumps....

thats how Marines take planets against many times their number of foes.


and a new crusade wouldn't just be marines, there would be Guard too.

KingDeath wrote:Once again, with the exception of virusbombing the planets ( assuming the templars have enough of the Lifeeater and their fleet actually manages to deploy it's exterminatus class weapons )

Every Space Marine ship can feasibly deploy Exterminatus class weapons. And the Life Eater isn't the only virus the Imperium has. It's just the most effective.

And considering Battle Barges have cut their way through entire Tau fleets before, I'd say odds are pretty high that the Black Templars can manage it what with having the largest fleet of almost any single Space Marine Chapter.

what enables a few thousand Spacemarines to conquer an entire world? They lack numbers, they lack heavy support ( oh look, a few dozen landraiders and perhaps a few hundred Predators..against a world which can, if their production capabilities are similar to 2end WW earth, produce many thousands of tanks each year ), they lack aircraft and most important of all, they cannot replenish their numbers.

Who says the Marines lack aircraft? Thunderhawks are aircraft.

Oh, you mean fighter jets. Well the Tau don't have those either. Their craft are without exception all superheavies.
But I will point you to the Land Speeder Tempest. One man craft, equipped with Typhoon launchers and Assault Cannon.

Marines can cripple a world, they can, if deployed properly, devastate the military infrastructure of a world but, thanks to their low numbers, they can never actually conquer it. That job falls to the massive numbers
of the Imperial Guard.

It's not hard to conquer a world of corpses.

Space Marines CAN'T use exterminatus. Only Inquisitors, High-Lords, Primarchs, and the Emperor have the authority to do that. And Battle-Barges CAN'T cut through entire fleets of Tau ships. A single Tau Battleship of the Gal'Leath variety is equal to or greater than a Battle Barge.

Also, the DGC did NOT end on even terms. The Tau brought a MASSIVE fleet that completely outmanned/outgunned the Tau fleet. They agreed on peace because the Tau didn't want any more death, and the IoM wanted to squash some bugs.

Grey Templar wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the Tau got their asses handed to them on a silver platter and were about to be force fed their own posteriors, but then the Crusade was told they had better things to do then punch a little upstart Xeno race.

Last time i checked the Damocles fluff the crusade ended in a stalemate, with neither side actually managing to break trough.

which means the Imperium was winning.

What? Imperium attacks Dal'yth and then agree's to peace without actually concuring the world because they were winning? This sounds like space marines to you?

Kanluwen wrote:

Nerivant wrote:Dal'yth is, IIRC, the least militarized the first founding worlds. Sa'cea or Vior'la would be able to handle a lot worse.

And the Tau pulled a large amount of their entire Empire's defensive capabilities back to Dal'yth.

What's your point?

If the Imperium wanted to kill the Tau, damn the consequences, they'd do it.

Wanting, and being able to, are two different things.

im2randomghgh wrote:Space Marines CAN'T use exterminatus. Only Inquisitors, High-Lords, Primarchs, and the Emperor have the authority to do that. And Battle-Barges CAN'T cut through entire fleets of Tau ships. A single Tau Battleship of the Gal'Leath variety is equal to or greater than a Battle Barge.

The hell they can't. Space Marines commit Exterminatus quite often.

In terms of weaponry, maybe the Gal'Leath is equal to or greater than a Battle Barge. In terms of armor?

Hah.

Also, the DGC did NOT end on even terms. The Tau brought a MASSIVE fleet that completely outmanned/outgunned the Tau fleet. They agreed on peace because the Tau didn't want any more death, and the IoM wanted to squash some bugs.

The IoM didn't "want" to squash some bugs. The largest Hive Fleet to hit the Imperium was oncoming. Somehow some smurf hippies hanging around in the backyard just don't seem as critical compared to a race that has devoured entire star systems.

Brother Coa wrote:I do not hate Tau, I hate when people start talking about Tau like they are all children of Chuck Norris...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Actually, Brightsword invaded Nimbosa, killed every single living human on the planet, fortified it to the teeth, repelled the intitial invaders, then finally waged a ground war against Space Marines that resorted to playing an attrition battle, something they seldom do. After slaughtering a company of Space Marines and two regiments he was recalled for brutality and the IoM defeated the Tau.

BTs launching a campaign into Tau space unsupported would be eradicated down to the last in a couple of months. Tau have more Battlesuits than BTs have ground troops. The millions of FWs, Kroot, Vespid, Drones, etc would overwhelm a single Space Marine chapter. Even as legions they didn't launch campaigns that foolishly outnumbered.

Like this...

That's actually listed in the codex as the Koloth Gorge Massacre. There seems to be some kind of confusion or plot mess about it. Apparently the IoM sent two forces to take it back. the first was wiped out (No mention of if they are marines), brightsword was recalled, then the Marines where deployed. The codex stops talking after brightsword left though.

Really in general cannon is not consistent on how strong a fire warrior is (Example the video game fire warrior). Are they stronger then Marines or not. I honestly don't know what the answer is suppose to be. One quote talks about a tank with one hole in the front, one hole in the back, and one long blood stain after that. A weapon like (My guess is rail gun) that should kill a Marine right?

im2randomghgh wrote:
Still, 6000 men AREN'T going to destroy a species and conquer well over 100 worlds.

Do you know who Black Templars are?

Do you know why Space Marines are?

They would r*** Tau if they invade... To bad they have bigger threats to combat...

VoxDei wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the Tau got their asses handed to them on a silver platter and were about to be force fed their own posteriors, but then the Crusade was told they had better things to do then punch a little upstart Xeno race.

Last time i checked the Damocles fluff the crusade ended in a stalemate, with neither side actually managing to break trough.

which means the Imperium was winning.

What? Imperium attacks Dal'yth and then agrees to peace without actually conquering the world because they were winning? This sounds like space marines to you?

Despite people's insistence, Space Marines look at things in terms of 'The Big Picture'.

There's Chapters that would likely continue the fight, but most of them are pragmatists. They know it's better to leave and come back than to keep fighting.

Nerivant wrote:
Wanting, and being able to, are two different things.

Wanting, being able to, and having the motivation to do so are three different things.

Right now, the Tau Empire are in the pathway of several Ork Waaghs and a Tyranid Hive Fleet.

Getting stuck in serves no purpose when you can have a meatshield.