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The books that got announced look alright, although none I'm particular interested in.

Disappointed there was absolutely nothing for the Leagues of Votann, Warhammer Crime series, or The Old World.

Yeah, I was expecting the LoV book to be shown off. Was the ork warboss the only model revealed? I know it was a BL reveal but the article last week said "Minitaure reveals" :/

Da new novel.

Theres another BL thing in February right?
Maybe more sensible as to what is coming post heresy then as we’ve got the final part coming around then right?

I think all of this stuff previewed is for the BL day in February.

Ah ok. I thought we might see more reveals for 2024 in Feb as well..

Good to hear from the interview that the Morvenn Vahl book is going to show that the Ministorum does as much messed-up gak as the Night Lords, but is it bad that I'm more looking forward to that little book of saints from the special edition than the novel itself?

Here’s the synopsis for the leaked brettonia book;

This is from the website:
A Warhammer: The Old World Novel
The son of Baron Lothar Aquilena is taken captive in the Land of the Dead. Despite the bitter divide between Duke Carrard of Quenelles and the Baron, they form an uneasy alliance, mounting a treacherous expedition into the cursed realm.
READ IT BECAUSE
It’s a tale of chivalry coming before personal rivalries as noble knights attempt to rescue a nobleman's kidnapped son from the clutches of the undead.
THE STORY
When the son of Baron Lothar Aquilena of the Border Princes is taken captive, he calls in a debt of honour owed to him by Duke Carrard of Quenelles once his brother-in-arms and now his bitter rival.
This uneasy alliance of warrior knights mounts a dangerous expedition into the lifeless desolation beyond the badlands to a forgotten realm cursed to know neither water nor shade. The baron's son is held captive in the Land of the Dead, and the kings and queens of old do not rest easy in their tombs.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Da new novel.

Cool! I can't wait to read it... in a year or two when the less-unreasonably-priced paperback is available.

Make sure you get that paperback before it shoots up in price.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
If harlequins get a new book, it better be written in play/screenplay format.

I see what you did there...

Nothing tickled my fancy but it was a variety of offerings. Ahriman is quite a cool character, I guess.

Had hoped John would do the final Covenant book, oh well.

From the new reveals I want to check Ufthak (I love Brutal Kunnin' and its shorts)/Eidolon (one of my favourite HH era characters)/Ahriman (read all the others, and while they were not my favourite books I want to see how it ends)/Morvenn (out of curiosity) ones.

Lion and SoB paperbacks https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/17/sunday-preview-kill-team-warhammer-underworlds-and-tyranids/

Official announcement

Gorgeous artwork and McNeil is generally well up there in quality by BL standards. Bit disappointed (though hardly surprised) that this Bretonnia seems to be the same comedically grimdark meme society it turned into by the end of WHF's lifecycle, even if the implication is that some of the characters are railing against that.

Definitely on my to read list.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
Gorgeous artwork and McNeil is generally well up there in quality by BL standards. Bit disappointed (though hardly surprised) that this Bretonnia seems to be the same comedically grimdark meme society it turned into by the end of WHF's lifecycle, even if the implication is that some of the characters are railing against that.

I don't know too much about Bretonnia lore, what sort of thing was there that made them a "comedically grimdark meme society"?

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
Gorgeous artwork and McNeil is generally well up there in quality by BL standards. Bit disappointed (though hardly surprised) that this Bretonnia seems to be the same comedically grimdark meme society it turned into by the end of WHF's lifecycle, even if the implication is that some of the characters are railing against that.

I don't know too much about Bretonnia lore, what sort of thing was there that made them a "comedically grimdark meme society"?

I'm probably prone to overstating it because of how much I disliked it but there was a tangible shift in the tone of Bretonnian society between the 5th Edition army book and the 6th/7th Edition one.

The former (penned by Nigel Stillman) is often characterised as being a romanticised idea of a feudal culture, with noble, devout knights and a loyal peasantry who relied on the nobility for protection from the horrors of the Old World. It was somewhat symbiotic as a society; the peasantry needing protection and leadership and the nobility needing the support and resources to be able to essentially exist only for warfare. The commoners were obviously relatively 'poor' but there was a means of advancement by being taken into a knight's service as a man at arms, the most successful becoming squires/yeomen and in some cases even being allowed to become Knights Errant, either as a reward for some exceptional feat or as an emergency situation when an isolated community/castle lost its knight and there was no immediate successor to take up the mantle and the settlement would essentially vote for the 'best' young common villager to be given a task of Errantry which, if successful would elevate them to full knighthood. It's been argued that it's too 'nice' and romanticised; something I reject as there were multiple stories in the book itself that showcased examples of where the nobility were indifferent, cruel or corrupt (to the extent of instigating an outright civil war and fraudulently claim to be a Grail Knight and the kingship).

The latter book just took all of that and dialled it up to an unreasonable extent in my opinion. All the knights became arrogant, vain imbeciles who treat the peasanty as property. The peasants themselves became universally inbred morons who live in such abject poverty that there wasn't a hint of credibility as to how that society even functioned economically and the glass ceiling between peasant and noble became made of adamantium. There was no social advancement possible and the disproportion of wealth is extreme to the point of ridiculous. And the whole thing is played for laughs. It's practically a Monty Python sketch as a faction identity (nothing against Monty Python sketches in general btw...). Perhaps ironically the best comparison I can make is the AoS lore for Flesh Eater Courts in terms how there's a comedic element to it; the distinction for me being that with the ghouls there's at least a tragically dark humour to it and their collective delusion is pitched to be as horrifying as it is quite enjoyable to play with as a faction concept. The 6th Ed Bretonnia wasn't tragic, it was just utterly reductive and the faction exists now in popular consciousness as little more than 'their peasants are so poor lolz, for ze Lady!'.

Sorry for a mild rant. They were my introduction to the hobby in 5th and my first army. The tonal shift pretty much annoyed me to the extent that I didn't touch them again (that and I didn't like the models in 6th).

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
Gorgeous artwork and McNeil is generally well up there in quality by BL standards. Bit disappointed (though hardly surprised) that this Bretonnia seems to be the same comedically grimdark meme society it turned into by the end of WHF's lifecycle, even if the implication is that some of the characters are railing against that.

I don't know too much about Bretonnia lore, what sort of thing was there that made them a "comedically grimdark meme society"?

I'm probably prone to overstating it because of how much I disliked it but there was a tangible shift in the tone of Bretonnian society between the 5th Edition army book and the 6th/7th Edition one.

The former (penned by Nigel Stillman) is often characterised as being a romanticised idea of a feudal culture, with noble, devout knights and a loyal peasantry who relied on the nobility for protection from the horrors of the Old World. It was somewhat symbiotic as a society; the peasantry needing protection and leadership and the nobility needing the support and resources to be able to essentially exist only for warfare. The commoners were obviously relatively 'poor' but there was a means of advancement by being taken into a knight's service as a man at arms, the most successful becoming squires/yeomen and in some cases even being allowed to become Knights Errant, either as a reward for some exceptional feat or as an emergency situation when an isolated community/castle lost its knight and there was no immediate successor to take up the mantle and the settlement would essentially vote for the 'best' young common villager to be given a task of Errantry which, if successful would elevate them to full knighthood. It's been argued that it's too 'nice' and romanticised; something I reject as there were multiple stories in the book itself that showcased examples of where the nobility were indifferent, cruel or corrupt (to the extent of instigating an outright civil war and fraudulently claim to be a Grail Knight and the kingship).

The latter book just took all of that and dialled it up to an unreasonable extent in my opinion. All the knights became arrogant, vain imbeciles who treat the peasanty as property. The peasants themselves became universally inbred morons who live in such abject poverty that there wasn't a hint of credibility as to how that society even functioned economically and the glass ceiling between peasant and noble became made of adamantium. There was no social advancement possible and the disproportion of wealth is extreme to the point of ridiculous. And the whole thing is played for laughs. It's practically a Monty Python sketch as a faction identity (nothing against Monty Python sketches in general btw...). Perhaps ironically the best comparison I can make is the AoS lore for Flesh Eater Courts in terms how there's a comedic element to it; the distinction for me being that with the ghouls there's at least a tragically dark humour to it and their collective delusion is pitched to be as horrifying as it is quite enjoyable to play with as a faction concept. The 6th Ed Bretonnia wasn't tragic, it was just utterly reductive and the faction exists now in popular consciousness as little more than 'their peasants are so poor lolz, for ze Lady!'.

Sorry for a mild rant. They were my introduction to the hobby in 5th and my first army. The tonal shift pretty much annoyed me to the extent that I didn't touch them again (that and I didn't like the models in 6th).

Looking into it there does seem to be quite a difference in tone between those editions, although it also sort of sounds like 5th edition and earlier was when their lore hadn't really been fully established as being its own unique thing quite yet, with them being very similar to the Empire before then.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
Gorgeous artwork and McNeil is generally well up there in quality by BL standards. Bit disappointed (though hardly surprised) that this Bretonnia seems to be the same comedically grimdark meme society it turned into by the end of WHF's lifecycle, even if the implication is that some of the characters are railing against that.

I don't know too much about Bretonnia lore, what sort of thing was there that made them a "comedically grimdark meme society"?

Spoiler:

I'm probably prone to overstating it because of how much I disliked it but there was a tangible shift in the tone of Bretonnian society between the 5th Edition army book and the 6th/7th Edition one.

The former (penned by Nigel Stillman) is often characterised as being a romanticised idea of a feudal culture, with noble, devout knights and a loyal peasantry who relied on the nobility for protection from the horrors of the Old World. It was somewhat symbiotic as a society; the peasantry needing protection and leadership and the nobility needing the support and resources to be able to essentially exist only for warfare. The commoners were obviously relatively 'poor' but there was a means of advancement by being taken into a knight's service as a man at arms, the most successful becoming squires/yeomen and in some cases even being allowed to become Knights Errant, either as a reward for some exceptional feat or as an emergency situation when an isolated community/castle lost its knight and there was no immediate successor to take up the mantle and the settlement would essentially vote for the 'best' young common villager to be given a task of Errantry which, if successful would elevate them to full knighthood. It's been argued that it's too 'nice' and romanticised; something I reject as there were multiple stories in the book itself that showcased examples of where the nobility were indifferent, cruel or corrupt (to the extent of instigating an outright civil war and fraudulently claim to be a Grail Knight and the kingship).

The latter book just took all of that and dialled it up to an unreasonable extent in my opinion. All the knights became arrogant, vain imbeciles who treat the peasanty as property. The peasants themselves became universally inbred morons who live in such abject poverty that there wasn't a hint of credibility as to how that society even functioned economically and the glass ceiling between peasant and noble became made of adamantium. There was no social advancement possible and the disproportion of wealth is extreme to the point of ridiculous. And the whole thing is played for laughs. It's practically a Monty Python sketch as a faction identity (nothing against Monty Python sketches in general btw...). Perhaps ironically the best comparison I can make is the AoS lore for Flesh Eater Courts in terms how there's a comedic element to it; the distinction for me being that with the ghouls there's at least a tragically dark humour to it and their collective delusion is pitched to be as horrifying as it is quite enjoyable to play with as a faction concept. The 6th Ed Bretonnia wasn't tragic, it was just utterly reductive and the faction exists now in popular consciousness as little more than 'their peasants are so poor lolz, for ze Lady!'.

Sorry for a mild rant. They were my introduction to the hobby in 5th and my first army. The tonal shift pretty much annoyed me to the extent that I didn't touch them again (that and I didn't like the models in 6th).

Looking into it there does seem to be quite a difference in tone between those editions, although it also sort of sounds like 5th edition and earlier was when their lore hadn't really been fully established as being its own unique thing quite yet, with them being very similar to the Empire before then.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that as such; 4th Edition going into 5th was, I would say, where the lore really crystalized into the WH Fantasy world most people became familiar with. The aesthetic and tone might have gotten a bit broodier as time went on but the key aspects and events of the setting certainly didn't change dramatically from 5th onwards (even if they were padded out) until the build up to the End Times. Ogre Kingdoms were added as a faction but didn't really tread on any existing lore and sometimes odd things occurred and later got outright retconned (hi Eltharion, hi Kouran...) but I wouldn't agree that by the point 5th Edition appeared (with that Bretonnia book alongside) that the lore wasn't fully fleshed out to a larger degree.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
I'm not sure I'd agree with that as such; 4th Edition going into 5th was, I would say, where the lore really crystalized into the WH Fantasy world most people became familiar with. The aesthetic and tone might have gotten a bit broodier as time went on but the key aspects and events of the setting certainly didn't change dramatically from 5th onwards (even if they were padded out) until the build up to the End Times. Ogre Kingdoms were added as a faction but didn't really tread on any existing lore and sometimes odd things occurred and later got outright retconned (hi Eltharion, hi Kouran...) but I wouldn't agree that by the point 5th Edition appeared (with that Bretonnia book alongside) that the lore wasn't fully fleshed out to a larger degree.

The tacking on of an 'Everchosen of Chaos' was a big retcon. Having Morkar killed by Sigmar and not Aenarion (Sigmar kept getting more things added to his resume; started out just being a guy that killed some orcs, by the end he'd thoroughly duffed up every major bad guy in the setting). Asavar bloody Kul.

And another update on the second wave of MTO Ghost novels:

Hello,

We’re getting in touch today to let you know there has been a delay in sending out your books as we have had to recreate your order for you.

You can rest assured these are secure, and you will receive a separate email to confirm a new order number from us by the end of next week.

Many thanks for your patience on this, and our apologies for the inconvenience.

Kind Regards,

The Warhammer Webstore Team

Lords of the Lance pre-order https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/06/saturday-pre-orders-warhammer-the-old-world/

Has this been mentioned?

End and the Death Part 3 (presumably of 6 at this point) Jan 30.

https://www.amazon.com/End-Death-Horus-Heresy-Siege/dp/1804074888/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=end+and+the+death&qid=1704569947&sr=8-5

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

End and the Death Part 3 (presumably of 6 at this point) Jan 30.

C'mon Kid, they said it is a final part. They would not lie, right...right?

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

End and the Death Part 3 (presumably of 6 at this point) Jan 30.

C'mon Kid, they said it is a final part. They would not lie, right...right?

Epilogue after?

It is the only time they’ve said final part to be fair.
The key thing is Abnett said after the announcement of 3 how he ended up writing three books worth so they split it in 3.
So I’d hope that’s the case.

I’m in the final hour of Vol 1 right now, and where it seems to be ending this part, I can’t even see what’s gonna be in the 18 hours of Vol 2, let alone a whole third one?!?

I dunno why I’m surprised it’s almost out. I guess I figured they’d drag out the last book for another few months

We already knew it was end of Jan back at the start of December.
It’s the only reason I started Vol1 as I thought that’d be around the right amount of time to listen through 1&2