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Hi, i'm a necron player, and m regular opponent is a Dark Eldar player. a CC oriented one. As you can guess i don't win very often. i've won once because of his absolute fail rolls for reserves, and i was able to surround both his portals (he very rarely uses these anymore, mainly focuses on raiders) and shoot down the army as they slowly advanced on me.
I need help to defeat him.
I can pull from basically any selection in the necron list:
120 warriors
2 monoliths
10 destroyers
2 heavy destroyers
30 scarabs
1 (3 if i try) wraiths
6 paraiahs
nightbringer
lords enough to fill both slots, on destroyer body and on foot.

EDIT: Spelling

Hug your monoliths. the only thing in a DE army that can hurt them effectively are wyche haywire grenades.

Not to sound discouraging, but you are going to have a very hard time keeping up with any other codex in the game. I’m not going to say you’re a poor player, or you need to trash your army. But DE is a brand new 5th ed codex, with all sorts of bells and whistles.

Ok now to be constructive. As huckleberry said, your monoliths are going to be a very good unit to max out. I would pack in the destroyers, not heavy but the fast attack ones use there str 6 fire power and speed to your advantage and take out the low AV transports. Kill off all the witches -they are prob your worst threat.

New necron codex is coming soon, from what I hear. And its going to be mean…hold out till it gets here and rule the table. Its good to see a loyal necron player

Hückleberry wrote:Hug your monoliths. the only thing in a DE army that can hurt them effectively are wyche haywire grenades.

sad to say wyches are his main squad

You need to take away his alpha strike.

That means if he wins initiative, you need to keep your units far enough away that you can't get assaulted or you should come in from reserve via the Monoliths.

There's little in the DE 'dex that can take out a Monolith, so use them to break line of site to your troops and to block their advance.

If you get first turn: Take his Raiders down. Anything with S4 can do this with luck, and anything S6 or higher can do it pretty reliably. On foot, DE are tissue paper and you have those horrible gauss cannons.

Also remember since his raiders are open topped they can be wrecked with a glance. Remove his mobility and you have a good chance.

Necron Gauss rule does a LOT of Damage to Raiders and Ravagers on account of the Open Topped Rule.

Spam Warriors is my advice.

Bloodhorror wrote:Necron Gauss rule does a LOT of Damage to Raiders and Ravagers on account of the Open Topped Rule.

Spam Warriors is my advice.

The gauss rule means nothing to raiders and venoms, they are already AV 10 so str4 will glance on a 6 always.

Exergy wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:Necron Gauss rule does a LOT of Damage to Raiders and Ravagers on account of the Open Topped Rule.

Spam Warriors is my advice.

The gauss rule means nothing to raiders and venoms, they are already AV 10 so str4 will glance on a 6 always.

His point, I believe is that those glances will wreck them on a 6(-2 for glance, +1 for open topped = -1), rather than the usual inability to wreck from glances, ie a return to the 4th edition era of glancing wrecks when fighting open topped vehicles.

I am truly sad to say its hard to avoid his alpha stike without screwing myself over. did you know he can get around 30" charge range? plus the 12" deployment means he can almost always charge me unless i can shoot down his raiders and venom. i know they are tissue paper on foot. i almost always go full cheese against him when i have the chance, 10 destroyers and 2 monoliths, as well as 40 warriors and a lord with res. most of the time i drop a mono for lower point value games. i have to get rid of his wyches.

Sorry to say but most of these posts haven't been particularly helpful, not that im not grateful to all of you who are trying. every time ive done what you guys have mentioned in the posts, and have only won by chance. i was more hoping for cheese i could use against the dark eldar.

Thanks all for trying

When 5th came out my local group realized that going first wasn't always the best anymore. Last turn objective grabbing played a big roll in some games.

Sadly with the codex books we've seen lately, alpha strike is more and more important so we appear to be back to the first die roll for deployment/going first being the most important roll of the game. And some characters modifying that roll doesn't help.

For Necrons vs. DE, consider min/maxing squads. You will loose some but hopefully the rest can shoot up their assaulting guys.

You always have the reserve play to cut down on his alpha strikes. Note which ones contain his wych cults and he is going to have a tough time getting them in contact with your monoliths. Back edge deployment of your warriors should do a number on his alpha strike assaults as he is going to be in rapid fire range if he 30" assaults anything.
One volley from 3 to 5 destroyers should be able to guarantee a raider death so unless his whole army is wyches, you should be able to drop 2 or even 3 raiders.

Two monoliths should be able to make him have to manuever to get at your warriors enough so you should be able to guarantee at least one teleport & rapid fire strike on any one unit he fields.

Also look at DashofPeppers wraith-strike list it is intruging as a necron assault army should be. I think it will help you come up with some ideas on how to deal with him.

I haven't touched necrons in a while but as a Dark Eldar player I can tell you what I don't want to see.

Take you minimal squads of warriors behind 1 monolith. Deep strike the other one as close to the mass of raiders/venoms that you can. The d6 shots at everthing can wreck open-topped raiders - and the DE do not have a reliable way to shoot or assault the monolith and wreck it - they can assault with haywire grenades but can almost never wreck the monolith that way.

Destroyers can be nasty - but you have to use you monoliths to block off return fire - position you monoliths so that your destroyers can only see 1 or 2 DE units - you do not want to get into a shooting match with DE. If his main squads are wyches - dedicate everything to shooting thier raiders down - ignore everything else. The easiest way to kill wyches is by wounds from a vehicle exlposion.

Having said all this, I think you're screwed. DE have a hard time with armor and excel at killing troops - at best you can have 3 pieces of armor. Don't take it hard - its the way the armies match up for each other. I've made a very good player in my area sell is Bugs because DE own bugs. Almost every army has a counter - want to see DE cry, watch them face a full Mech IG list - 12-15 vehicles is almost impossible to DE to face, depending on the points lever and mission.

Get cheesier.

Borrow a third Monolith (or perhaps you've found reason to get a third yourself!) and max destroyers. Avoid all CC units (Flayed ones, wraiths) because they are going to get punked out.

It's time to cut the high, stinky, cheddar!

Higher point cost games will make his 5th edition point costs less noticible (you'll have lots on the board too).

Then... soak your dice in pigs blood, and pray to the chaos god of your choice as follows; chalk circle in your driveway, and a naked dance with lots of wiggly arms and chanting (make the words up).

Repeat until contact is made with a higher Daemonic power. For extra daemon goodness substitute plastic dice for actual bones, and pigs blood for blood of an adult virgin (you can pick them up at your FLGS)... I suggest Slaneesh, damnation by snu snu is better than tending a bloodcrusher pen in Khorne's realm for all eternity. That's GOT to be an interesting smell.

/tangent

As a former necron Player and a current DE player here is what I would do.

take 2 units of Scarabs, maybe 3 or 4 models strong each, place those at the edge of your deployment zone so they are his charge target.

Take a fully maxed out unit of destroyers, put them back in a corner out of charge range.

Shame you don't have immortals, those would be perfect.

Set it up for him to charge the scarabs, by all accounts a 10 man unit of wyches should wipe it out in one turn, have warriors positioned behind scarabs about 12 inches or so, but colose enough that you will be able to move forward in your following turn, the rapid fire them to death.

Use the destoryers to drop other close threats then move on to units further away.

use a monolith to block off sections of the table from him getting around you and flanking you. Let them assault the monolith if they want, so long as it sets ups up your shooting, it does not matter if it gets blown up or not. its a decoy against DE and if it can tie them up or draw into a favorable shooting phase for you, it works.

basicly everything you are doing sholud be to set up your next shooting pahse. DE are very fragile and do not handle being shot at on foot very well, it at all. If they are not assaulting.

good idea gar, but i think i may reduce it to one squad and then just spread it out across my deployment zone so he has to assault them, or sit and shoot and therefore get shot at, for a turn. thanks.

and i am pulling all the cheese i can at the moment

HQ

Deciever

Troop

Warriorx10
Warriorx10

Fast
Destroyerx5
Destroyerx5
Destroyerx5

Heavey
Monolith
Monolith
Monolith

I don't have my Necron codex with me so this is just bare bones. I used variations of this list to much success in 4th and 5th edition in bigger games. In 1500 I drop the Monoliths and add 1 Hvy Destroyer for all comers but you may want to swap him for more warriors vs DE. Use the Decievers ability to change deployment to avoid the DE from outflanking. Don't let the deciever get shot up by poison he needs to be in cc you don't get any save at all from his cc attacks. Monoliths have a 24in kill zone stay within it with your warriors and use the telleport to keep them coming back.

Any points I haven't used in 2500pts fill with warriors. Hope this helps

I'm gonna have to agree with Cottonjaw on that ritual, being a Dark Eldar player myself I fear it like I fear S6 Spam.

As said, Destroyers will shine vs DE because they cannot be insta killed by lances (T5 right?). Along with putting out a volly of Raider/Venom/any other vehicle killing shots.

Grab one or two lords with a warsythe (Spell check) and run them with a destroyer body along with your destroyers to wreck wyches, or with your warriors so they are very hard to kill and not a prime target for a charge.

The deceivers a a huge waste vs the amount of sheer poisoned fire you will encounter.

Min your warriors and reserve them, be careful of where they come because DE can reach them with ease no matter where they are on the table with their sheer speed and range. (12" movement shoot 12 poisoned shots at 36").

Monoliths are a must, if you face a bad DE player, they will try and kill them, smile as they fail if they do not have wyches with haywires, and if they do, those wyches should be hitting your destroyers, so it's really a win win for you.

By the way, slk28850, deployment won't matter vs a shooty DE list, we will hit you no matter where you deploy, however we can't Outflank so don't worry about that.

revackey wrote:I'm gonna have to agree with Cottonjaw on that ritual, being a Dark Eldar player myself I fear it like I fear S6 Spam.

As said, Destroyers will shine vs DE because they cannot be insta killed by lances (T5 right?). Along with putting out a volly of Raider/Venom/any other vehicle killing shots.

Grab one or two lords with a warsythe (Spell check) and run them with a destroyer body along with your destroyers to wreck wyches, or with your warriors so they are very hard to kill and not a prime target for a charge.

The deceivers a a huge waste vs the amount of sheer poisoned fire you will encounter.

Min your warriors and reserve them, be careful of where they come because DE can reach them with ease no matter where they are on the table with their sheer speed and range. (12" movement shoot 12 poisoned shots at 36").

Monoliths are a must, if you face a bad DE player, they will try and kill them, smile as they fail if they do not have wyches with haywires, and if they do, those wyches should be hitting your destroyers, so it's really a win win for you.

By the way, slk28850, deployment won't matter vs a shooty DE list, we will hit you no matter where you deploy, however we can't Outflank so don't worry about that.

I agree that poison sucks for Deceiver but he is still a better HQ then a lord with warscythe. Against DE the Deceiver is your only cc option that will stand up to the punishment they can dish out and if/when they do take him out his explosion will kill anyone who is left. The Deceiver will be a huge fire magnet when he's not in cc but the op said that it is a cc DE force so if you keep the Deceiver close to your warriors he'll see cc.

The other way to go is to spend as little points on HQ as possible and put in more warriors. I don't like this option because a few more warriors isn't going to make that big a difference.

Poor choice of words on my part. I meant getting flanked and you are right DE are very mobile but being able to redeploy is still a strong strategic ability because DE players aren't above being mislead by the ol bait and switch.

Lord with Scythe is good because it adds the ability to take a rez orb.

Plus, you shouldn't be able to get into close combat with the deceiver against DE, unless the person wants you to attack a unit, they should either be ignoring him or murdering him with poison since hes got a 4++.

He's expensive for only an ability to deploy, sure he's great vs most armies, but the C'Tan just don't shine vs DE.

Lastly, thats the point of a lord, put him with your warriors, and watch as wyches fall. It makes the warriors a less "Tasty" unit. If I saw the Deceiver chilling over by a group of warriors he'd be dead by next turn., you can't target the Lord.

Vs CC DE the redeployment is a pain, but it will only delay the inevitable, and for the deceiver's points I can't see it working.

revackey wrote: If I saw the Deceiver chilling over by a group of warriors he'd be dead by next turn., you can't target the Lord.

Vs CC DE the redeployment is a pain, but it will only delay the inevitable, and for the deceiver's points I can't see it working.

Any time you spend shooting the Deceiver you're not shooting the Destroyers so that is a win. I will concede that he is weaker against poison but if I were going to a tournament Deceiver is going to do better then a lord no matter how he is kitted out.

I realize he will do better than a lord in TAC, but he is looking for anti dark eldar tactics, not TAC lists.

I went on Vassal quick and did about 10 rolls of 2 venoms (24 shots) on the deceiver. It appears he would be dead in one turn of just two vehicles shooting (everywhere from 3 to 8 unsaved wounds.). That isn't going to take a heavy burden off my shooting either, so there's still plenty to go around.

He plays a mostly combat oriented force.

10 kabalites (not sure what their equipped with) In raider with the re-roll to hit ability.
10 Whyches (generally equipped with either 2 hydra gauntlets if a guantlet and a razor flail, and always have haywire grenades) In raider with shock prow
5 Trueborn (shardcarbine, 2 splinter cannons, not sure what the other two have) IN venom with splinter cannon upgrade (this unit can dish out 33 poison shots a turn :( )
-5 scourges (2 haywire blaster and 3 shardcarbines (i think), mainly to wreck my monos)
5 incubi (usually runs them in a squad of 4, the klaivex ususally has a bloodstone and the onslaught power) in a venom
Archon (goes with the incubi, huskblade, soultrap, combat drugs, haywire grenades, shadow field, thinks thats it)
1 Ravager with dark lances
-Cronos, with all the upgrades
-Razorwing, have no idea what it has.


All raider's and venom's have flickerfield and night shield (5+ invul and minus 6" range for me), and dark lances.
items with a - at the beginning he doesn't have yet, but is already ordering them.

He currently has one venom, and will get another soon. Usually the archon and the incubi go in it, but sometimes they go in a raider. He has 2 raiders.



I can't get the deciever without ebay. Hes been removed from the shelves on my local gaming store (as has everything but the battleforece, the destroyer box and the monolith) and don't want to order him on the chance i will never use him ( i also hate metal models, i am potentilly throqing away my nightbringer and my pariahs)