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Hi all,

I am wondering if it is posible for a space marine to also be an inquisator. I am not asking if has been done befor. I am just wondering if it goes against any fluf. I am sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I didn't know weather to put it in fiction or here.

Thanks

Technically, the first generation Inquisitors were Space Marines, or implied to be, but after that, no. Inquisitors are humans, who receive significantly more training, have much higher standards for recruits, and end up with more authority than Astartes can be trusted with, hence even the lowest Inquisitor having the de jure authority to have chapters put to the sword if they deem it necessary, even if they lack the internal clout to not have such an order immediately countermanded by their peers should it have been given in error.

I don't think so..

Space Marines are mind wiped, genetically altered super space warriors with simplistic interior drive mechanisms. High tactical and physical prowess.

Inquisitors are highly trained, intelligent, well studied diplomats with combat training. They have to know everything about evil (Xenos, Heretics, Daemonkind) to be able to fight it, which puts them much more on the brink of failure than marines. Which is why their training is dependent more on mental and spiritual prowess than physical combat ability.

Inquisitors can wear power armor...thats about as close as you'll get.

So its not posible to have an "inquisator chapter master" is it then?

Well, where you could with it instead of the chapter master being an inquisitor is instead correlate something with the section of the =][= you speak of.

Obviously there are militant sections of each part.
Malleus>Grey Knights
Hereticus>Sisters of Battle
Xenos>Deathwatch

Chapter Master could have come out of one of these...

seanzor wrote:Well, where you could with it instead of the chapter master being an inquisitor is instead correlate something with the section of the =][= you speak of.

Obviously there are militant sections of each part.
Malleus>Grey Knights
Hereticus>Sisters of Battle
Xenos>Deathwatch

Chapter Master could have come out of one of these...

as mentioned in countless other threads, the sisters arent part of the inquisition or even in a close relationship with it. its one of the militant arms of the church. nevertheless the inquisitor has the option to aquire their aid if need be, and the case at hand is, well, heretical.

seanzor wrote:Space Marines are mind wiped, genetically altered super space warriors with simplistic interior drive mechanisms. High tactical and physical prowess.

Fixed that for you.

Inquisitors are highly trained, intelligent, well studied diplomats with combat training. They have to know everything about evil (Xenos, Heretics, Daemonkind) to be able to fight it, which puts them much more on the brink of failure than marines. Which is why their training is dependent more on mental and spiritual prowess than physical combat ability.

Inquisitors can wear power armor...thats about as close as you'll get.

If they get to the point of Inquisitor, they've already proven their resilience, as the whole "exposed to the truth, or perhaps more accurately the details of Chaos" happens when they're an agent or interrogator for an Inquisitor, so those who break do so long before they can be nominated for full Inquisitorship. Space Marines just take children with glandular problems and drug them, while jamming assorted extraneous or redundant organs and mutagens into them, with the only test being whether or not they happen to randomly survive the operations.


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tarnish wrote:

seanzor wrote:Well, where you could with it instead of the chapter master being an inquisitor is instead correlate something with the section of the =][= you speak of.

Obviously there are militant sections of each part.
Malleus>Grey Knights
Hereticus>Sisters of Battle
Xenos>Deathwatch

Chapter Master could have come out of one of these...

as mentioned in countless other threads, the sisters arent part of the inquisition or even in a close relationship with it. its one of the militant arms of the church. nevertheless the inquisitor has the option to aquire their aid if need be, and the case at hand is, well, heretical.

The SoB are considered the militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus, which maintains relatively close ties to the ecclesiarchy, since their domains more or less overlap. They're not subordinate to the extent that the Grey Knights are, and don't have the same formal ties that those who volunteered or were sentenced to serve on the Deathwatch do, but they're still an Inquisitorial asset when it comes down to it.

I'm not sure why, though, since the Inquisition should have it's legions of Stormtroopers available, and could certainly afford to outfit them in better than carapace if it felt the need for power armored shock troops...

No, they only let megalomaniacal humans do it

Armadeus wrote:So its not posible to have an "inquisator chapter master" is it then?

Not possible. You could have a chapter like the exorcists, or red hunters, that works very closely with the inquisition.

ph34r wrote:

Armadeus wrote:So its not posible to have an "inquisator chapter master" is it then?

Not possible. You could have a chapter like the exorcists, or red hunters, that works very closely with the inquisition.

Thats basicly the idea for my chapter, but it declared itself an army of the inquasition, and its chapter master is both a space marine and an inquisator. It would also have inquisators in chapter command (but only the chapter master is both space marine AND inquisator, the others are just inquisators).

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

seanzor wrote:Space Marines are mind wiped, genetically altered super space warriors with simplistic interior drive mechanisms. High tactical and physical prowess.

Fixed that for you.

No need. Space Marines have extreme tactical prowess, and they're sometimes mind-wiped upon induction. This view you have of Space Marines being useless is very radical, and not actually backed up by your single example, which is Calgar on Macragge.

The only ones who are mind-wiped as general practice are Grey Knights, although they're a much better example of what Space Marines should be in concept, being subordinate to the Inquisition as opposed to effectively being a rogue nation that answers to no one. Further, the rest of the Marines take all their knowledge from a book written ten thousand years prior, by a man who both neither saw many battles nor needed any sort of skill to win said battles, due to overwhelming numbers of power armored shock troops, and who wrote said book with the explicit intention of hamstringing them so they would no longer be a threat to Imperial Authority.

True, it's annoying to have such vagueness about important things like this. The Astartes are technically only allies to the Imperium, as they have no real commander in chief, not even the High Lords. They stick around because they're loyal to humanity, nothing else. I guess many in high command are fearful for what happens when Space Marines decide they want to go off by themselves, as they're damn difficult to put down, having their own ships and being largely scattered across a vast galaxy. Even the Inquisition are 'fearful' for what happens when Astartes go rouge, which is another reason why they don't try to subvert them, other than a base conflict of purpose, methods and morals.

I don't understand this thing about Guilliman though. Now, don't get me wrong, he's my least favorite Primarch because he's so bland, but there's no evidence to suggest that he just stayed behind and watched. The Space Marines faced many enemies that were powerful and numerous, and the Marines were even then low in numbers per each expedition. Everything we know about him so far has pointed to him as being a masterful tactician. Take Calth, he managed to survive against the Word Bearers, despite being horrendously outnumbered.
The Codex Astartes, was, correctly stated, written to make the Space Marines a force that wouldn't pose such a huge threat to The Imperium if they went rouge. Now, they still do, but no where near as much as during the Heresy, but just because the Codex had that over-riding purpose, it doesn't mean the whole thing was useless. In reality, it has made The Space Marines a more effective force in todays Imperium.
I get annoyed at how GW can say that Space Marines are the ultimate fighting force, the only thing keeping The Imperium from falling, whilst saying they are ridiculously low in number for the huge number of conflicts that require their attention. They're the ultimate fighting force when they actually get stuck in, but even if they are all mobilized all the time, there's only perhaps only about 5000 planets out of the millions in The Imperium which could actually have an Astartes presence on them, probably even less.

That's because the Space Marines are only shock troops. The vast majority of Imperial conflicts are fought by the Imperial Guard. It just seems disproportionate because they've had so much coverage.

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant to add. The Marines don't fight in every conflict because they can't, despite how GW paints the picture.

Back on-topic, I would say the best bet is to have a Chapter Master that's either a Deathwatch veteran, or leader of a Chapter that's close to The Inquisition, like the Red Hunters. It would make for an interesting and original concept though.

There's a bit in The Siege of Vraks (I think part 3) where it talks about the Inquisitor Lord that takes over the campaign standing a head taller than the Space Marines in his command. I thought that was really odd. Either Forge World was implying that he had received modifications on par or better than Space Marine geneseed, or they just forgot that Marines are supposed to be like eight feet tall.

iproxtaco wrote:Yeah, that's kinda what I meant to add. The Marines don't fight in every conflict because they can't, despite how GW paints the picture.

Back on-topic, I would say the best bet is to have a Chapter Master that's either a Deathwatch veteran, or leader of a Chapter that's close to The Inquisition, like the Red Hunters. It would make for an interesting and original concept though.

So its not activly iligal? Because if not it would make for a realy cool backstory. (Again, sorry about spelling.)

No it's not illegal, it depends whether you want to go for a completely original concept, with the Chapter Master being an Inquisitor and the Chapter being very close to The Inquisition, or if you want to go for a safer, more fluff oriented concept, in which the Chapter is very close to the Inquisiton where the many members of the Chapter are Deathwatch veterans or something similar to it.

Bludbaff wrote:There's a bit in The Siege of Vraks (I think part 3) where it talks about the Inquisitor Lord that takes over the campaign standing a head taller than the Space Marines in his command. I thought that was really odd. Either Forge World was implying that he had received modifications on par or better than Space Marine geneseed, or they just forgot that Marines are supposed to be like eight feet tall.

He had received modifications, but he was also wearing Terminator armor and a beast of a man to begin with.

Catachans, in the fluff, are about the same size as an Astartes Scout before he's fully modified et al. This isn't really new.

Last I heard, Catachans are supposed to be short and stocky...

Hadn't heard that. Have heard that they're fairly tall, but muscular.

Is kind of why they're called "Baby Ogryns".

No, thats their abominable body odour that gets them that nickname.

Kanluwen wrote:Hadn't heard that. Have heard that they're fairly tall, but muscular.

Is kind of why they're called "Baby Ogryns".

They are supposed to be as tall as, if not taller than, Ciaphas Cain, who was over two meters tall (IE, close to seven feet).

iproxtaco wrote:No need. Space Marines have extreme tactical prowess

Which is why they always make dumb tactical decisions, amirite?

iproxtaco wrote:I get annoyed at how GW can say that Space Marines are the ultimate fighting force, the only thing keeping The Imperium from falling

That's because they aren't. They never were. In fact, Space Marines are more a danger to humanity than a boon.

From one of the Ultramarines novels, The Killing Ground, I think, the GKs are effectively Inquisitors, giving Urinal Vagtris and his buddie the official Chaos Free certification.

As far as the question, I agree that this could only happen with Ordos Xenos, Deathwatch. A SM is permanently attached, his tactical prowess in annihilating xenos scum is so great that the Inq consults with him more, and more, and more over the centurys. Over time the depth and breadth of knowledge about xenos extermination expands far beyond combat tactics and strategy and he is noticeably more skilled than the Inqs he reports to in other areas, investigation, research, etc.

*Edited for great grammar justice*

Even that is exceedingly unlikely. Deathwatch Marines are not actually notably good at investigation and etc (they're worse than the basic adept or arbites as far as things of lore, research, investigation, etc, and those are quite common amongst the Imperium, often quite a damn bit smarter than the average Astartes as well), they're basically the power armored fist (a power fist, as it were ) of the Ordo Xenos. And even they tend to go back to their chapters after their stint of service.

The Ordo Xenos IS a bit more subtle than the Hereticus or Malleus factions, though, so it is possible. Just unlikely.





I think I'm gonna blame this thread on this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpecialSnowflakeSyndrome

tarnish wrote:

seanzor wrote:Well, where you could with it instead of the chapter master being an inquisitor is instead correlate something with the section of the =][= you speak of.

Obviously there are militant sections of each part.
Malleus>Grey Knights
Hereticus>Sisters of Battle
Xenos>Deathwatch

Chapter Master could have come out of one of these...

as mentioned in countless other threads, the sisters arent part of the inquisition or even in a close relationship with it. its one of the militant arms of the church. nevertheless the inquisitor has the option to aquire their aid if need be, and the case at hand is, well, heretical.

I disagree that they aren't in a close relationship with them, the Witchhuners codex makes it pretty clear that the SoB and Ordo Hereticus duties frequently overlap and they work hand in hand on a regular basis.

But more on topic: No, you can't be a SM and Inquisitor at the same time. SM Chapters acting as Ordo Militants for Inquisition orders or working with Inquisitors still aren't formally part of the Inquisition nor are its members Inquisitors.

Melissia wrote:Even that is exceedingly unlikely. Deathwatch Marines are not actually notably good at investigation and etc (they're worse than the basic adept or arbites as far as things of lore, research, investigation, etc, and those are quite common amongst the Imperium, often quite a damn bit smarter than the average Astartes as well), they're basically the power armored fist (a power fist, as it were ) of the Ordo Xenos. And even they tend to go back to their chapters after their stint of service.

The Ordo Xenos IS a bit more subtle than the Hereticus or Malleus factions, though, so it is possible. Just unlikely.

This is kind of a fallacy. Deathwatch, while not "notably good at investigation and the like" also aren't meant to be "investigators" in the same sense that Arbites or the Inquisitiorial Adepts are. Nor are Grey Knights or Sisters of Battle for that matter.

They are all, effectively, the 'troubleshooters' of the Inquisitorial Ordos that employ them.

Their job is to, once the Inquisition identifies a problem, shoot it.

Of course, the Deathwatch also has a secondary role that neither the Sisters or Grey Knights have in that they also recover Xenos tech and/or live Xenos for further study.
The Grey Knights don't have this role likely because capturing Daemons is a stupid risk and they have no real 'tech', while the Sisters of Battle will occasionally take prisoners and interrogate them before forcing them to repent.

You just repeated what i said


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Harriticus wrote:I disagree that they aren't in a close relationship with them, the Witchhuners codex makes it pretty clear that the SoB and Ordo Hereticus duties frequently overlap and they work hand in hand on a regular basis.

Not really. C:WH itself focuses on the actions of the Sisters as a body independent of the Inquisition.

The Sisters are, and have always been, primarily the army of the Ecclesiarchy.

Melissia wrote:You just repeated what i said

Not really.

Your statement was that "Space Marines are actually not notably good at investigation and etc(they're worse than the basic adept or arbites as far as things of lore, research, investigation, etc, and those are quite common amongst the Imperium, often quite a damn bit smarter than the average Astartes as well)".

That's not necessarily true. We've never really seen them used in an investigative role. It may not be because of them being "notably not good" at it, and may simply be because there's a perception by the Inquisition of Astartes being unable to do the role except in special circumstances.

For example:
I'd rather let an Astartes of the Dark Angels or Raven Guard Chapters run a covert operation than a Thorian Inquisitor, but I wouldn't have a Space Wolf or Black Templar run the same covert operation.

The "average Astartes" is more intelligent than your basic adept or arbites. It's part of the genetic enhancement package. None of them are big dumb brutes. The problem is simply that they apply their intelligence differently in many cases, and that to say "average Astartes" is covering every single Chapter.
Not every Chapter are close combat obsessed killers. Many are very tactically aware as was evidenced by the Raven Guard plotting out the Raid on Kastorel-Novem.