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Pretty much every Necron list I see (especially the ones they claim to be tournament competitive) include a C'tan (and nearly always it's the Deciever). Personally I don't like the models so I've tended to avoid taking them. Am I gimping myself?

My lists tend to be destroyer heavy, but I'm playing around with variations at the moment.

Yeah I know I could just wait for the new codex, but I find that I need to play an army to keep motivated to paint it, and I'd like to get this army done by end of summer.

Well, they are the single best unit in the ENTIRE game.

but it boils down to how you wish to play. Ctan are nice for murdering super deathstar units that would otherwise murder everything.

They are recemended, but what really matters is what you want your army to be.

C'tan are great, but if you take them then they are a huge point sink and they really hurt your Phase Out. You can do well enough without them, compensate with Wraiths, Destroyers, etc.

Necrons were my first army when I started playing 40k right after the codex came out in 2002.

Destroyer wings are my favorite too, the firepower they have mixed with the mobility they are capable of works well with how I play.

I always thought 300 points was a pretty heavy cost for one unit that could be targeted normally and was slow as hell(which I thought would cripple the d-wing idea) but if your opponent fields any type of CC they will make themselves up in no time. Once I started fielding him though I saw his point wasnt to get into CC, it was to keep people from getting into cc with the rest of your stuff. If he runs defense for your warriors(which are going to be your slowest unit by far, fixed only with a lord w/ veil or a monoliths portal) people will be terrified to come near you.

the reason people pick the deceiver over the nightbringer imo is that hes cheaper, about the same in cc(the 1 str and 1 attack make almost no difference and 1 one extra int is helpful when your playing the 70% of people that play marines) and has some irritations that make him amazingly effective(pulling out of cc in the opponents turn is a great irritant)

The c'tan, like the Monolith, is a distraction unit. The smart player will try to avoid contact with them and go straight towards phasing you out while most other players will try to take them out thinking that they pretty much win the game if they succeed. Obviously these units are nothing to laugh at but the Deciever can tie up those pesky cc units aka death company while you trudge forward to claim objectives. C'tan are not for low points games, maybe in 2,000+pt games or apocalypse but that's pretty much their purpose is intimidation and support.

With poison out there the MC are becoming worse and worse. Deciever is nice, but not required. He just deals with certain units well.

Isn't the deal of Phase-out to have a kind of a "Less is More" type deal? I wouldn't want my opponent going for all my warriors, and just ignoring my destroyers...

But anyway, Deciever could be used to murder things like TH/SS termies, and other nasty power fist wielding maniacs.

But for other posion wielding morons use the time honoured method of the fear instilling MASS NECRON CHARGE !

The deceiver's great, just make sure he stays away from nemesis force weapons, the legendary toughness 8 star-god doesnt have eternal warrior....

First tourny i ever went to I took Necrons, it was 2350 and i took a night bring, some dude charged me with 10 TH/SS termis and a chapeter master....his face fell fast when i killed em all with no saves. The next game was agaisnt guard and he shot the NB first turn, who blew up killing half of my immortals. So Ctan are good just be careful

C'tan are useful for necrons because they are able to ignore 2+ saves and FNP, both things we struggle against.

The other reason they are useful and you will see them in almost every tournament lists is due to the fact that once your reach 2000 points, there is not a lot of good units to spend your points on. For wraith ring its 3 'liths and 9 wraiths + a destroyer lord, you could take a unit of immortals, or you could take the deceiver. For destroyer wing it is usually 2-3 liths and then as many destroyers as you can pack in. The C'tan is usually there as a way to 'convince' people not to try to get into charge range of him.

Oh and the reason I say monoliths is because they are really good with both wraith ring, destroyers and c'tan because they can act as mobile blos cover, which is huge for necrons. They wont kill much, but they can save your life against a multitude of different opponents (watch out for bubble wrapped broadsides though... they hurt)

The Crusader Of 42 wrote:Well, they are the single best unit in the ENTIRE game.

How about no? There's nothing wrong with the C'tan, but I'm having a hard time seeing how they're the "best" unit in the entire game.

cheers for the advice

Defiler37 wrote:The deceiver's great, just make sure he stays away from nemesis force weapons, the legendary toughness 8 star-god doesnt have eternal warrior....

On the flip side, in most scenarios those nemesis Force Weapons are STR4 and can't hurt the star god. And if they activate Hammerhand to make it hurt him, they can't activate the Force Weapon.

this is mainly why

you MUST take 360 base points, then it is either 300 or 380 points for a ctan

that is either 660 or 740 points already.

and obviously because c'tan are super slow :(

C'tan are important for stopping annoyances like flying demon princes, flying Tryants, and other fast moving 2+ save models. Land Raiders full of Termis too. It's entirely possible for a single flying monstrous creature (or Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf) to clean up your whole army unit by unit if the terrain is sufficiently dense, and Necrons have few replies other than a lurking star god.

Destroyer fire on such targets isn't so efficient, and substantial terrain placement would make it hard to draw los. Heavy Destroyers are too easy to shoot down. Monoliths are unlikely to do enough wounds in time, and not much else in your army can handle such a threat in melee unless you are running 9 Wraiths or the All Construct army.

Whether or not you are gimping yourself is largely up to you. I play necrons myself and will usually field the deceiver in games 1750 and higher. The reason being is that he offers something almost none of our codex has and that is a counter assault unit. That tied with proper use of his powers will make him a unit the opponent will want to ignore, but if used right will need a response.

The deceiver shouldn't really be going out and trying to be the almighty indestructible god the fluff says. If he goes out in the open he will die. his power lies in using his rules to make up the points and using him as a deterrent for your opponents getting too close to your necrons soft crunchy combat center.

I will normally tuck him away out of line of sight of my opponents guns as much as possible until my opponents inevitable assault units begin their draw, keeping him near models that don't have the level of maneuverability your jetbikes will. usually this is my warriors or immortals. Careful use of his abilities will usually allow me to feel he's earned his keep on the field and then some.

just like any unit some games he shines and some he does little more than look around at the wonderful indigenous life that the current planet my metal boys are conquering has to offer. No doubt planning a new recipe.

Ultimately I feel the reason he and or a monolith for that matter are often worth taking are not for their innate ability to kill things themselves, but their rules allowing to let your necrons do what they do for that much longer.

On the flip side, in most scenarios those nemesis Force Weapons are STR4 and can't hurt the star god. And if they activate Hammerhand to make it hurt him, they can't activate the Force Weapon

Nemesis force weapons are definitely a concern...

1. Might of Titan
2. Every gk squad usually includes DemonHammers, sometimes master crafted.
3. Attached independent characters have hammerhand also
4. Dreadknights assaulting across 18"
5. Psyker Mastery level 2 & 3

However, I'd still feel pretty confident about slamming the nightbringer into an average GK squad.
The GK are going to want to assault your whole army anyway.

Dash's Wraithwing list is one of the most creative and impressive uses of the necron army I've seen, but I wonder how effective it would be without the deceiver, with a 2nd destroyer lord w/warscythe and resorb; and another 130ish points of dudes. I mean, this whole no c'tan convo might just be irrelevant in a few months.

Remember, that residual 130 points can't buy more Wraiths, Destroyers, or Scarabs. All it can buy are Immortals, Pariahs, Flayed Ones, and Warriors.

I don't think ~5 Immortals and a D.Lord will prove better than the Deciever.

True.

But a few pariahs might not be bad; might as well use 'em while you can, if the rumors are true.

C'tan are one of the only real answers that can be used to reliably counter assault death stars which could single hand idly roll up a necron list. There are a few things they cannot hold up against, but not much.

I like the deceiver and agree with most points above. However, I find it difficult to field him below 2000pt. My style of play is to be as bold and aggressive as possible with 2 monoliths, to provide enough fear and confusion so that the enemy forgets about the destroyers. Then I recycle warriors and even destroyers for the WBB rerolls. My army is led by a destroyer lord with scythe, orb, shifter, who seems to perform very well in place of the deceiver. I also tend to take somewhat beefed up warrior squads (12/13 at 1850 and more at higher point values) for durability. With such an army, the Deceiver would be nice for the reasons others pointed out, but he is not a must.

If there were no poison weapons and he could get eternal warrior and jumppack flight of some sort, then he would be fielded far more often. Otherwise his performance is very uneven and largely dependent on terrain and enemy build.

Why a star god that levitates does not move like a jetbike and does not have eternal warrior is only intelligible to the deep minds at GW rules team.

K total noob question but havent played in at least 8 months.

Whats the deal with poisoned weapons?

And nightbringer cant be instakilled right so why can the Deciever?

Neither have eternal warrior, so both can be instakilled by force weapons if they can actually wound the model.

Poison ignores toughness so wounds on x+ (x is usually 4 it seems).

Both are the bane of C'tans existance.

Ah k. Well if they have below a certain Strength they cant even wound the model though correct, im assuming thats what was being discussed before, and with poison well how many wounds can a unit inflict, are they also unsavable or can you use armour or inv? Wouldnt a unit that deals maybe one wound or something with poison just get crapped on by the c'tan next turn?
I know with orcs i think the painboys and grotsnick are the only one with poisened weapons

Waaagh Junkie wrote:K total noob question but havent played in at least 8 months.

Whats the deal with poisoned weapons?

And nightbringer cant be instakilled right so why can the Deciever?

Poison weapons wound on a flat roll regardless of toughness value. For example, the banewolf cannon wounds on 2+ regardless of toughness. DE have a ton of poison weapons which I think wound on flat 4+. So, on a Deceiver at T8, these weapons are equivalent to dark lances. Except he has dozens of shots from them when he takes 3 venoms on a 1850 pt game. So, 3 venoms will kill a deceiver in one round of firing.

Basically what Necrontyr said. The only time it is a big worry is when you are playing dark eldar, then almost every unit is carrying a poison weapon. 1 round of shooting is easily enough to kill a deciever/nightbringer

Jebus alright thanks boys. Ill keep an eye out for that, guess itll only be for a little while anyways, new codex is comin out pretty soon(I freakin hope so!!)

tiekwando wrote:Basically what Necrontyr said. The only time it is a big worry is when you are playing dark eldar, then almost every unit is carrying a poison weapon. 1 round of shooting is easily enough to kill a deciever/nightbringer

True, but DE are now numerous because they got their fresh new codex. Out of about a dozen regulars at my local game pit, 4 (four) have and regularly play DE!

Wasn't arguing that trust me!

Actually its why I think C'tan (well necrons in general) do not work until a bit higher points level so that you can field a monolith or two to block los.