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Sometimes I wonder if we are overly critical of the figure's market in general. When manufacturers preview their stuff on Dakka it ranges from very positive to very negative, to me sometimes too negative. Is it just me? Also what crops up a lot is the old GW comparison "Oh its not up to their standard so its not much good" mindset, It does exist even on Dakka and leaves me totally baffled.I'm sure rival manufacturer' do not design a model and then sit around a table worrying if it is on a par with GW, yet many buyers seem to think the model has to. In recent months there have been some good looking vehicles and figures yet they still get negative comments for minor design areas, "I don't like that little bit at the front so I won't buy it". Recently someone previewed sci/fi corridors and one response was along the lines of "Oh the walls are not high enough so I won't buy them". Seriously? I'm all for manufacturer's previewing their new products for feedback but can't help wonder at their reactions to some of the very negative reviews people give them, they may feel that they cannot win and not bother releasing any. I'm not saying do not be critical but ask for more realistic reasoning; you are not going to like everything about a model.

"What's that bear doing under the tree Gerald?"

"Avert your eyes Mable."

I don't think this thread will end well, but yes. People are critical.

Well, unless said manufacturers are giving their products away, my guess is people have a right / should be critical about how they spend their resources.

The other point is that, if a manufacturer previews their products on a website like Dakka, some take it as an opportunity to request minor changes that will enhance their decision to purchase....so if you were ever going to critique a product, this would be the best time to do so.

The GW comparison comes from the fact that many will seek to use those new products in the game they play, for a lot of people, thats WH40K / fantasy.....so they will make a side by side comparison with the style of their chosen 40K faction (for example) and make statements based on their findings.

I once complained that I thought it was unfair of people to judge products intended for other games (for example Infinity) against it's potential use in 40K, people were basically stating that a miniature for Infinity was rubbish because it couldn't be used in 40K....this pi$$es me off no end.....but that's life

When people are paying premium prices for something, they have every right to be critical of it.

It's not like "beggars can't be choosers". We pay top dollar for GW products, so we have every right to expect top quality in EVERY aspect.

You think people who buy Bentley's buy them just for the name? No. They expect the BEST in automobiles for the money they are shelling out. Model soldiers are no different.
Especially when there are companies like Mantic or Perry Miniatures who are doing arguably better sculpts for MUCH less money.

If I'm going to spend good money on a product, your damn right I'm going to be critical of it if it doesnt meet my standards.

aerethan wrote:When people are paying premium prices for something, they have every right to be critical of it.

It's not like "beggars can't be choosers". We pay top dollar for GW products, so we have every right to expect top quality in EVERY aspect.

You think people who buy Bentley's buy them just for the name? No. They expect the BEST in automobiles for the money they are shelling out. Model soldiers are no different.
Especially when there are companies like Mantic or Perry Miniatures who are doing arguably better sculpts for MUCH less money.

True. However, Bentley buyers probably don't endlessly bash Chevy when they preview a new car. Nor do they criticize after market parts made for Fords because they don't fit a Bentley.

As a company, if you're going to post stuff on a forum, particularly a 40k centric forum, then you should expect people to be critical. You just have to have thicker skin and know your target audience.

If people are serious about criticism they give thought out reasons for why they think a piece isn't good. For example, the legs are too short, or the pose is unrealistic.

Often, however, someone just doesn't like a piece. The criticism then is merely an emotional reaction and useless to the company involved. They will never please all of the people all of the time as we have different tastes.

The important thing to remember is:

It's OK to not like things. Just don't be dick about the things you don't like.

This applies doubly to criticisms of individuals' work.

The internet amplifies the criticism. It raises opinions from "hmmm, that model seems kinda' bland, I don't think I'll buy it" to "Gawd, these guys suck, all of their work sucks, and they're extorting me for my rent money for a product that I refuse to walk away from!"

Pitchfork and torch-wielding mobs and public burnings ensue.

So, um, yes.

I think it's totally acceptable to say "I'm not buying that product because I don't like feature X".

If a company charges GW prices then they gotta produce quality similar to or better than GW or people aren't gonna be impressed. I agree, people comparing Mantic to GW in terms of quality is silly as Mantic charge a fraction of the the price.

Delephont wrote:
I once complained that I thought it was unfair of people to judge products intended for other games (for example Infinity) against it's potential use in 40K, people were basically stating that a miniature for Infinity was rubbish because it couldn't be used in 40K....this pi$$es me off no end.....but that's life

The weirdest part about this is that Infinity miniatures are miles above GW.

Da Boss wrote:I think it's totally acceptable to say "I'm not buying that product because I don't like feature X".

If a company charges GW prices then they gotta produce quality similar to or better than GW or people aren't gonna be impressed. I agree, people comparing Mantic to GW in terms of quality is silly as Mantic charge a fraction of the the price.

People can and will buy what they like, and leave the stuff they don't like. That's industry in operation.

What's sad is when people say, "product X is bad because I don't like it."

Delephont wrote:

I once complained that I thought it was unfair of people to judge products intended for other games (for example Infinity) against it's potential use in 40K, people were basically stating that a miniature for Infinity was rubbish because it couldn't be used in 40K....this pi$$es me off no end.....but that's life

Ill agree. Thee are far too many people who cant see anything but GW.

Akward unsociable nerds complain to much on the internet and act like entitled children

News at 11

I agree with poster above who said that we here on dakka are sometimes overtly critical and pitchfork wielding mobs ensue.
I also agree that we have a right to view the alotment of resources like cash in a critical fashio.
I do not agree that INFINITY minis are miles above GW. quite the opposite. they look kinda meh for my own taste.

Wargamers complain a lot, just as all customers do on the internet. We're not better, nor are we worse, than a lot of other forum groups I sometimes dip into.

sennacherib wrote:I do not agree that INFINITY minis are miles above GW. quite the opposite. they look kinda meh for my own taste.

Then you are not looking especially hard at them. Some of them are amazing. It is also eternally entertaining that a miniature line that professes to have a "manga aesthetic" provides fare less "super deformed" models than the majority of its scifi/fantasy competition

That being said, I do not think there is any miniatures company that consistently provides us models miles above its competition. All have their stinkers and their diamonds, and I for one do not believe that the ongoing move to CAD actually helps the quality of the figures. It certainly helps the detail, but you can only look at so many fluttering pieces of cloth or micro-sized ladder rungs before you realize that while that level of detail might be very impressive in a hand sculpt, it is far easier to do in with CAD and does not necessarily add to the aesthetic quality of the actual model. And then, suddenly, it just looks tacked on in the worst cases. You can have extremely high quality details on an extremely low quality miniature, which is why hand sculpting and metal casting will remain with us for a long time.

Kilkrazy wrote:

People can and will buy what they like, and leave the stuff they don't like. That's industry in operation.

What's sad is when people say, "product X is bad because I don't like it."

Exalt this and all that. We see it quite a lot here on Dakka, because by its very nature, wargaming and miniatures provokes some very partisan reactions. Sadly,as a community, I think we are guilty of equating our personal preferences as valid criticism far too often. It happens a lot in News and Rumours when companies release leaked or sneak previews (and GW is most definitely included in this). Some posters will post valid and well thought out criticism and indeed reasons why they don't like something but all too often there is a trend of posts saying 'I don't like it', 'Wow that's ugly' etc etc. Unfortunately, once it happens there is a bit of a snowball effect - once someone has called a model ugly or rubbish, its easy to jump on the bandwagon and throw abuse at the sculpt, sculptors and producing company. I guess it is easier than thinking out and typing a thought out response as to why it makes one feel that way.

Personally, if I don't like a model, I very rarely post to say that unless there is a good reason why I don't like it. Personal preference and my posting habits I suppose, but I don't think posting 'I don't like it' adds anything to the criticism or discussion of a model.

First of all, I'd say that positive comments that are just as brief ("omg I love it!"), are just as useless and add nothing to a discussion.

Second, if that's literally all you say then yeah I'd agree, but if you can elaborate and explain why you don't like a model then I'd say it's perfectly valid. If you can get away with posting mindless praise for something then surely I'd think valid criticism would be just as welcome.

My approach is that if I recognise that a company has limited resources and I'm subsequently not that impressed with a mini, I keep my thoughts to myself.

That said, how much resources can the Perry brothers have? And (in poor taste perhaps) they only have three arms between them. Yet consistent quality everytime.

At the end of the day, the quality of a mini is all down to talent, but I'm reluctant to be too critical of people having a go, particularly as I have no sculpting ability myself whatsover.

This is the fething internet. Everybody is to critical. I dont say i like it, but on every website there are haters and trolls. Sometimes i think the hate is justified, but sometimes people only see the downsides ( if you prefer metal over Finecast, you sir are a hater ).

Sometimes, Dakka takes the haet overboard.

But then again, that's just how we do. It's the internet, you're basically forced to have a positive/negative stance.

MrTau wrote:( if you prefer metal over Finecast, you sir are a hater ).

lmao, speaking of trolls...

Yes, I believe people are far too critical of the models. They are, with some exception, perfectly fine representations of what many of us see as the models, if not pictured. And, if not, there are many fine craftsmen out there who make great models form left-over parts.

...the models are fine representations of the models? I'm confused, lol.

Kilkrazy wrote:

The important thing to remember is:

It's OK to not like things. Just don't be dick about the things you don't like.

This applies doubly to criticisms of individuals' work.

Utterly right.

No I don't think people are too critical. But I do think people can be idiots about it, especially when someone else disagrees with their view. I appreciate well thought out positive and negative comments of any mini/artwork; they help the sculptor/artist and the company. Whereas 'I hate it' or 'I love it' are to the point but not helpful to anybody. Mainly the only things wrong with how much people criticize on forums is either not explaining enough or taking it too far and attacking the sculptor for being talentless or other people for having a different view.

Hi all.
Constructive critisism is ALWAYS useful.

EG
I am concerned about the pose , do the positions of the arms realy work work with the dynamic of the legs and trunk?

I find the amount of detail detracts from the product, would this be a case where 'less is more' applies?

So there is no such thing as too much constructive critisism.IMO.

But critisim based on personal preferences is less useful, and is best kept to a minimum.IMO.

There are so many overly critical people on this board, I'm sometimes shocked at how irrational some people are. Most of the criticism I've heard has been extremely irrational. The criticism is not inherently irrational, but when you consider that anyone can decide themselves wheter or not they want to buy the products, then the criticism is pretty irrational. Most of it is on the point of hysterics. Calm down, people! If GW is so evil, just don't buy their stuff! For example, I think Apple products are pretty darn sucky. My solution? Don't buy Apple sh*t. I don't first buy their products just to then go around on internet forums complaining and crying about how bad they are. That would have been irrational to the point where I would have considered my sanity to have been severely compromised.

I saw a signature saying something to the effect of "GW apologizers are stupid" or whatever. WHAT? We're not the ones who buy products we don't like. Seriously guys. If you don't have anything worse than this to complain about, then you don't have anything to complain about.

Anyway. I've bought some pretty messed up models at GW, but whenever I've brought models back to the store, no matter what reason, they've replaced the models without any hassle. I've even sometimes been allowed to replace it with a different kit. In my experience, GW has been one of the most service minded shops I've been to. This is both the Oslo store and the Amsterdam store.

Lanrak is pretty much on the money. Criticism that's constructive is useful, criticism that's just criticism is not.

Too often I see posts that say something along the lines of "That looks awful!"... and that's all they say. They never explain why they think how they think.

Non sensical criticism is worse and thats every bit as common. People really go reaching for a reason to hate things on this forum. When 50 people jumped on the "I don't like models that sit" bandwagon about a month ago it blew my mind.

I see this kind of winging as childish entitlement. Also, people who think they can take leave of all sense of politeness when they go on the internet.