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 Elbows wrote:
If the K31 is the Swiss rifle I'm thinking of, they used to be quite available in the US about 10-15 years back. However, they came with a caveat: you couldn't find the ammunition...ever...at all, lol.

I hope that's changed. I'd hate having a firearm I couldn't shoot routinely.

It's the old standard ammo, 7,5x 55 mm.
Phased out so there's that.

I think he meant the US. Not surprising since its basically a proprietary cartridge that was used only by the Swiss. The only way you could shoot a rifle like that is if you reloaded your own brass, and somehow actually managed to find some brass in the first place. You'd probably have to cast your own bullets as well.

Frankly, anybody who had one in the US would probably need to seriously consider rechambering it in something else. 7.62x54r, 308, or 30-06 would be much easier to acquire.

edit: so having done a quick look, there are people who sell 7.5x55 in the US, but its quite expensive and all surplus. Meaning that it would only get more expensive over time to shoot the rifle.

Ive got a K31, I picked it up when they were $90 Big5 specials about 15 years ago when the Swiss liquidated their old inventory, it was the first gun I ever bought. Now they're far more expensive and rare these days. Ammo can be found easily...if you buy online, no local place is ever gonna have it in stock and it's gonna be about a dollar per trigger pull. Good news is that the Swiss surplus stuff is all match grade quality ammo and Prvi Partisan does produce new ammo commercially, so there are options.

The K31's are asolutely fantastic bolt action rifles.

I guess I'm spoiled with 50 cent 7.62x54 ammo

 Grey Templar wrote:
I guess I'm spoiled with 50 cent 7.62x54 ammo

I need to get me something that shoots that one of these days.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Ive got a K31, I picked it up when they were $90 Big5 specials about 15 years ago when the Swiss liquidated their old inventory, it was the first gun I ever bought. Now they're far more expensive and rare these days. Ammo can be found easily...if you buy online, no local place is ever gonna have it in stock and it's gonna be about a dollar per trigger pull. Good news is that the Swiss surplus stuff is all match grade quality ammo and Prvi Partisan does produce new ammo commercially, so there are options.

The K31's are asolutely fantastic bolt action rifles.

This made me chuckle, because the $90 Big5 special was exactly where I had seen these when I was in Arizona maybe 2007-ish. Good to hear ammo can be had, if not...at "fun" levels of cheap.

 Elbows wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Ive got a K31, I picked it up when they were $90 Big5 specials about 15 years ago when the Swiss liquidated their old inventory, it was the first gun I ever bought. Now they're far more expensive and rare these days. Ammo can be found easily...if you buy online, no local place is ever gonna have it in stock and it's gonna be about a dollar per trigger pull. Good news is that the Swiss surplus stuff is all match grade quality ammo and Prvi Partisan does produce new ammo commercially, so there are options.

The K31's are asolutely fantastic bolt action rifles.

This made me chuckle, because the $90 Big5 special was exactly where I had seen these when I was in Arizona maybe 2007-ish. Good to hear ammo can be had, if not...at "fun" levels of cheap.

Did some digging, you can procure match made ammo for it from RUAG ammo tec. That said you can also rechamber it to hunting rifles, which is very liked here.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on mounting cameras to a firearm?

I'm thinking about the utility of a rail mounted camera. Reviewing range time could be interesting, CYA for legal issues, recording hunts, etc.

Anyone ever tried this? I've seen a couple interesting options, GoPros look too big, but stuff like the Tactacam Solo look neat.

This one came off a Messerschmidt, does that help?



As far as something like a rifle, dunno. A helmet cam might be a better option.

And as an update, I just bought a silly little thing for my AK.

Fireball anybody?

Wife test fired one of these a couple weekends ago, liked it. As a result, we ordered her one and a stack of extra magazines. Fired a couple hundred rounds through it Saturday. Ordered her a in-the-purse holster last night.

Templar, you'll be super popular at the range with that thing. Any genuine reason for it?

 CptJake wrote:

Spoiler:

Wife test fired one of these a couple weekends ago, liked it. As a result, we ordered her one and a stack of extra magazines. Fired a couple hundred rounds through it Saturday. Ordered her a in-the-purse holster last night.

Is that a PT111 G2? I have one and it looks identical, or very close.

It's a really nice 9mm, relatively accurate, reliable, cheap. I use it as my on conceal carry gun. My only complain is that the mags rattle inside the grip a little - I added a strip of tape to each side of the mag to fix that.

Yep, G2C. I haven't noticed the mag rattle yet, but haven't really looked for it yet either. I'll keep my eye/ear out for it.

I carry a Glock 26, wife likes it a lot, BUT is REALLY uncomfortable without the extra external thumb safety. Guy recommended the Taurus to her, we found a place that rented them, and now we own one.

Well it is definitely more than just eye candy. Very good recoil reduction with it.

 CptJake wrote:
I carry a Glock 26, wife likes it a lot, BUT is REALLY uncomfortable without the extra external thumb safety. Guy recommended the Taurus to her, we found a place that rented them, and now we own one.

I know exactly what you mean. When I was first shopping for a carry gun, I made a list of guns I was interested in looking at, and I had the expectation that I would get a Glock of some kind, probably a Glock 19 or 26. After test firing it I wound not liking the way it felt in my hand at all. The ergonomics just didn't work for me at all. I know they are great guns, crazy reliable, but the two Taurus pistols I own feel "right" when I hold them.

I’s got a question!

Watching a film, and the protagonist is mercury tipping his Freedom Seeds. Quick Google explains why.

But it got me thinking. When I was in the States, 25 years ago, my host family made their own bullets. Yet, watching The Walking Dead, that art seems lost until Eugene finds the relevant workshop.

What gives, Dakka? Is that based on state laws (WD is set in Georgia, I was in Maine)? Is it particularly unusual for a gun owner to do that, for cost or practical reasons? Or was their a change in the law?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is it because WD is written by a Brit, who may not have thought bullets could be manufactured in the home?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’s got a question!

Watching a film, and the protagonist is mercury tipping his Freedom Seeds. Quick Google explains why.

But it got me thinking. When I was in the States, 25 years ago, my host family made their own bullets. Yet, watching The Walking Dead, that art seems lost until Eugene finds the relevant workshop.

What gives, Dakka? Is that based on state laws (WD is set in Georgia, I was in Maine)? Is it particularly unusual for a gun owner to do that, for cost or practical reasons? Or was their a change in the law?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is it because WD is written by a Brit, who may not have thought bullets could be manufactured in the home?

You just need a mold and the proper lead (wheel balancing weights are a favorite strangely). Now this works with lower speed rounds the best. higher speed rounds and rifle rounds will lead foul your gun quickly without a coating on it. I am not sure about higher speed rifle rounds though. they may need to be coated/jacketed.

A friend had molds for .44 rounds and 44 / 45/70 rounds he would load.

Edit: give a gander:
https://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/
https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/guns/rifles/2007/09/cast-your-own-bullets

EDIT: this all assumes you meant physically molding the bullets. Just loading ammunition is common and easy. I did it in high school.

I only recall seeing the stampyclampy bit, where the pellet is squished into the casing after the powder.

They may have cast their own pellets, or the rounds were bought in kit form (perhaps as a safety precaution in case of theft? Was all kept in a strong room, that much I recall)

Just seems odd that The Walking Dead made such a big thing out of it?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I only recall seeing the stampyclampy bit, where the pellet is squished into the casing after the powder.

They may have cast their own pellets, or the rounds were bought in kit form (perhaps as a safety precaution in case of theft? Was all kept in a strong room, that much I recall)

Just seems odd that The Walking Dead made such a big thing out of it?

The problem would be the powder and primers. Black powder is not that hard. modern smokeless powder is a chemist's dream.

I have several buddies that reload. I typically save up my brass and give it to them. The gear isn't too expensive for some of the smaller/simpler set ups, and it isn't very complicated.

It’s extremely easy to reload brass and a lot of people do it for cost/precision reasons. These days the buy-in is a little more expensive than it used to be but if you shoot high volumes then it’s still economical.

Not sure what The Walking Dead’s take on it was but it’s a common prepper/survival trope.

Could it be because Walking Dead uses stuff like Assault Rifles, wheefed from Military units?

It shouldn't make any difference. The only stuff that's difficult or impossible to reload IIRC is rimfire rounds like .22LR (Because the primer is the base of the cartridge and can't be replaced) and steel cartridge rounds which are fairly uncommon compared to the more conventional brass that the military typically uses.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Could it be because Walking Dead uses stuff like Assault Rifles, wheefed from Military units?

Uses the same ammo as is commercially available so if they have, for example, an M16 it will be able to fire any 5.56/.223 ammo out there.

I have several hundred rounds of “military” 5.56, it’s easily found on sporting goods store shelves.

Again, "reloading" as its called., is not hard if you can get the ingredients. Even bullet moulding (primarily pistol caliber) is not especially difficult.

But actually manufacturing the components - especially the powder and primers - of modern firearms is the difficult part.

For fun, check this out. This is a Mark 7 attachment for Dillon reloaders. Its used by people who handload of lot of rounds for competition, for clubs, etc. Its fascinating how fast they run.



Here's the reloader without all the mark 7 crap on it. Just hand cranked, its still blindingly fast.*



*Me want. Every time me get ready to get something happens. car break down, airc conditioner, etc. Me sad...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Just seems odd that The Walking Dead made such a big thing out of it?

It's because a scarcity of ammo is a cheap way to create tension until you start asking yourself 'wouldn't they have run out of ammo entirely by now'? And suddenly, a wild source of ammo appears!

I'm not entirely sure that an ammo shortage in the Walking dead universe would happen all that quickly. I think around season 3 Kirkman estimated that 1 in 5000 people survived the initial zombie outbreak. Now, in the US there are 1.13 guns to every person, and something like 1100 active rounds per weapon in civilian hands at any given time. That's something like 4,400,000,000 live rounds in the US at the time of the outbreak. Even if you don't count the military taking out zombies, or that there are a number of people that reload or taught themselves to, and even if you assume 90% of that ammo was wasted or lost, that's still 80,000 rounds per survivor. That's enough to shoot every zombie more than 160 times.

Yep, it's just an extension of the false belief that we'll run out of everything in six months (despite 90% of the population disappearing...resulting in overwhelming surplus of almost every conceivable necessity - including ammo). But, ya know...zombie show?

The only downside is the inability to carry large amounts of ammo. I have perhaps 3-4K at the moment, but short of carrying it in a car, I wouldn't be able to throw it in a bag and run with it (that's 50-60 lbs. of ammo). So if you were forced to leave your own stash you would have to locate some others, but again - pretty easy pickin's in the free states.

It does depend on how fast the population disappears in a society ending event. If 90% of the population drops dead/undead more or less instantly then yeah we would end up with large amounts of surplus everything.

However if the die-off takes a little longer, say over a few weeks or months, then we'd burn through the stockpiled stuff much more quickly. This is enough time for true panic to set in, which means that people will begin fighting each other over food(which is something that will get burnt through very quickly). That fighting would eat into ammunition stores. There would still a good amount leftover, but it would be a precious thing.

But the real challenge wouldn't be the stuff existing, it would be tracking it down. All of the stores are going to be completely looted within the first week or so, so the real challenge would be hunting down where the stuff has been stashed. Plus you'd be rolling the dice on if you find matching calibers for the guns you have.

In the Walking Dead scenario, a lot of places that had ammo might be simply too overrun with zombies to safely acquire it, or so many that you'd use more ammo getting it than you'd get out of it. And a sensible prepper isn't going to put up a sign that says "Survival gear stored here!"


Those videos frazz posted are also high end super expensive reloading gear. Multi-stage units that assembly line the whole thing that cost a few grand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQNz2ie5H5U

Something like this is much cheaper. Its what I have. If I include the first batch of brass, powder, and the sawhorse I screwed the whole thing to, it ran me about $400.


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 simonr1978 wrote:
It shouldn't make any difference. The only stuff that's difficult or impossible to reload IIRC is rimfire rounds like .22LR (Because the primer is the base of the cartridge and can't be replaced) and steel cartridge rounds which are fairly uncommon compared to the more conventional brass that the military typically uses.

And lets be honest, .22LR is a very poor choice for killing zombies, or indeed anything much bigger than a rabbit. Its one step above a pellet gun.

The difference in power is massive between a 22lr and something like a 5.56, which is itself pretty weedy in comparison to a 7.62x39 or an actual rifle round like 30-06. 22lr is going to somewhere around 150 joules of muzzle energy. 5.56 has around 1800 joules. 7.62x39 is around 2000. 30-06 is going to be around 4000. All dependent on the specific firearm, powder load, and bullet specs of course, but thats the rough ballpark.

So even if you could reload 22lr, it would really just be a waste of energy. Not that its useless, but you'd be better off melting down the brass to try and make larger caliber casings.


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 simonr1978 wrote:
It shouldn't make any difference. The only stuff that's difficult or impossible to reload IIRC is rimfire rounds like .22LR (Because the primer is the base of the cartridge and can't be replaced) and steel cartridge rounds which are fairly uncommon compared to the more conventional brass that the military typically uses.

Steel cartridges are only difficult to reload because they are going to be Berdan primed. Which means that there are two offset flash holes in the bottom of the cartridge instead of 1 central hole, which is what all reloading dies are meant to accept.

Now I did see a cool video showing a proof of concept method of reloading steel cased ammo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwmmsZ-aX4g

It would need to take many months to kill it off, and even then stuff would still exist. I agree, smart people would be taking action to horde it. But considering our population of 320-340 million people, everything we produce is already months out in production. If we hit the breaks immediately *assuming people left their jobs when it all started*, we'd still have a good amount.

I just think it's often way too wildly exaggerated "oh I found five aspirin, yay!" kind of nonsense just to make the movie more convincing etc.