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 warhead01 wrote:
I banged out my first Ork army list yesterday and am cleaning up my errors as I made several. Small oversites and whatnot.
What I am struggling with is Ork boys.
I feel like 9th doesn't want me to put Orks in my Ork army. An Ork player I know says it's Boys before toys again but I'm just not seeing it yet.
So my question is how few is too few when it comes to boys on foot? is 15 or 20 too few?
Are quad weapons worth putting in the Boys mobs? I stopped doing that in 5th.

Depends on what you are doing and what your meta is. In most tournament/competitive settings the old rule of boyz before toys is back in 100% force. This is because your opponents are spamming multi-dmg weapons with good AP which are universally wasted on shooting/hitting boys because a 6+ save and 1 wound doesn't care if its killed by a -2 or higher AP weapon with 2-6 dmg, dead is dead

if you are running Goffz than i highly recommend upgrading all your boys to Skarboyz and bringing Ghaz because of the force multiplier effect. 30 skarboys with Ghaz theoretically get around 25-26 dmg against Space Marines while 30 regular (non goff) boys with ghaz only get 16-17 dmg. And keep in mind that is theoretical dmg because its going to be a rare event when you A: get 30 boyz across the field without losing a single model and B: Are able to get all 30 into close combat.

With that in mind, the key to orkz right now...and has been for awhile actually, is target saturation. If you want to bring infantry, only bring infantry, if you want to bring vehicles than only bring vehicles. When you start mixing and matching you are shooting yourself in the foot because a lot of armies have enough secondary weapons that can really kill your list if given a priority target. For instance, an intercessor squad isn't going to be happy shooting at a vehicle, likewise the eradicator squad is going to be a bit pissed off if they have to unload their Melta weapons into the face of ork boyz as opposed to tanks/vehicles. So again, if you want to play infantry horde than 90 boyz is the minimum I would take. If you want to run vehicles than you should bring the BARE minimum for infantry requirements. so either 3x10 boyz or 3x10 grotz and everything else invested in Buggies, battlewagonz and whatever else you want to bring. And in my humble opinion, ALL weapon upgrades for the boyz are useless. 10pts for a single rokkit shot which will miss 1/3rd of the time is just wasted points in my opinion.



Honestly, I'm going to be going to a tournament soon where I bring 180 boyz to the table with Ghaz because Feth anti-vehicle weapons

SemperMortis wrote:

Spoiler:

 warhead01 wrote:
I banged out my first Ork army list yesterday and am cleaning up my errors as I made several. Small oversites and whatnot.
What I am struggling with is Ork boys.
I feel like 9th doesn't want me to put Orks in my Ork army. An Ork player I know says it's Boys before toys again but I'm just not seeing it yet.
So my question is how few is too few when it comes to boys on foot? is 15 or 20 too few?
Are quad weapons worth putting in the Boys mobs? I stopped doing that in 5th.

Depends on what you are doing and what your meta is. In most tournament/competitive settings the old rule of boyz before toys is back in 100% force. This is because your opponents are spamming multi-dmg weapons with good AP which are universally wasted on shooting/hitting boys because a 6+ save and 1 wound doesn't care if its killed by a -2 or higher AP weapon with 2-6 dmg, dead is dead

if you are running Goffz than i highly recommend upgrading all your boys to Skarboyz and bringing Ghaz because of the force multiplier effect. 30 skarboys with Ghaz theoretically get around 25-26 dmg against Space Marines while 30 regular (non goff) boys with ghaz only get 16-17 dmg. And keep in mind that is theoretical dmg because its going to be a rare event when you A: get 30 boyz across the field without losing a single model and B: Are able to get all 30 into close combat.

With that in mind, the key to orkz right now...and has been for awhile actually, is target saturation. If you want to bring infantry, only bring infantry, if you want to bring vehicles than only bring vehicles. When you start mixing and matching you are shooting yourself in the foot because a lot of armies have enough secondary weapons that can really kill your list if given a priority target. For instance, an intercessor squad isn't going to be happy shooting at a vehicle, likewise the eradicator squad is going to be a bit pissed off if they have to unload their Melta weapons into the face of ork boyz as opposed to tanks/vehicles. So again, if you want to play infantry horde than 90 boyz is the minimum I would take. If you want to run vehicles than you should bring the BARE minimum for infantry requirements. so either 3x10 boyz or 3x10 grotz and everything else invested in Buggies, battlewagonz and whatever else you want to bring. And in my humble opinion, ALL weapon upgrades for the boyz are useless. 10pts for a single rokkit shot which will miss 1/3rd of the time is just wasted points in my opinion.



Honestly, I'm going to be going to a tournament soon where I bring 180 boyz to the table with Ghaz because Feth anti-vehicle weapons

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I banged out my first Ork army list yesterday and am cleaning up my errors as I made several. Small oversites and whatnot.
What I am struggling with is Ork boys.
I feel like 9th doesn't want me to put Orks in my Ork army. An Ork player I know says it's Boys before toys again but I'm just not seeing it yet.
So my question is how few is too few when it comes to boys on foot? is 15 or 20 too few?
Are quad weapons worth putting in the Boys mobs? I stopped doing that in 5th.

Depends on what you are doing and what your meta is. In most tournament/competitive settings the old rule of boyz before toys is back in 100% force. This is because your opponents are spamming multi-dmg weapons with good AP which are universally wasted on shooting/hitting boys because a 6+ save and 1 wound doesn't care if its killed by a -2 or higher AP weapon with 2-6 dmg, dead is dead

if you are running Goffz than i highly recommend upgrading all your boys to Skarboyz and bringing Ghaz because of the force multiplier effect. 30 skarboys with Ghaz theoretically get around 25-26 dmg against Space Marines while 30 regular (non goff) boys with ghaz only get 16-17 dmg. And keep in mind that is theoretical dmg because its going to be a rare event when you A: get 30 boyz across the field without losing a single model and B: Are able to get all 30 into close combat.

With that in mind, the key to orkz right now...and has been for awhile actually, is target saturation. If you want to bring infantry, only bring infantry, if you want to bring vehicles than only bring vehicles. When you start mixing and matching you are shooting yourself in the foot because a lot of armies have enough secondary weapons that can really kill your list if given a priority target. For instance, an intercessor squad isn't going to be happy shooting at a vehicle, likewise the eradicator squad is going to be a bit pissed off if they have to unload their Melta weapons into the face of ork boyz as opposed to tanks/vehicles. So again, if you want to play infantry horde than 90 boyz is the minimum I would take. If you want to run vehicles than you should bring the BARE minimum for infantry requirements. so either 3x10 boyz or 3x10 grotz and everything else invested in Buggies, battlewagonz and whatever else you want to bring. And in my humble opinion, ALL weapon upgrades for the boyz are useless. 10pts for a single rokkit shot which will miss 1/3rd of the time is just wasted points in my opinion.



Honestly, I'm going to be going to a tournament soon where I bring 180 boyz to the table with Ghaz because Feth anti-vehicle weapons

That was actually very helpful! Have an exalt.
I don't exactly know about the meta, I don't think it really applies as such to my games. My usual skrumgrod is very competitive and constantly prepping to his next tournament but I'm playing more for fun and just trying to give him a run for his money, much as I have done over the last 20 years... The rest of the usual's are more of a fun games crowd not exactly competitive all the time.

I had been thinking more grots were needed but maybe I'm over thinking it.
Zoundz I miss the days where the biggest debate was shootas or choppas.

Wonderful point about multi damage weapons vs boys. hadn't thought about that. I knew it was a thing just hadn't been forward in my mind.

I don't care for special Characters, though I do have old Ghaz. Looks like Ghaz is only listed at 300 points but is that new Ghaz or Old Ghaz?

This is only source of info about how to play green tide I know...

https://www.goonhammer.com/tournament-report-labor-day-gt/

Interesting, I just realized what he was doing with those deathskulls msus.

Kombi rokkit and rokkit. You get one reroll to hit per MSU, which works out to an average of roughly one (slightly over one) rokkit hit per MSU squad.

Not sure about the value of that for 105 points.

I'd imagine that the units real value would come from objective holding, actions and being general pains in the backside. The special weapons and re-rolls just let them do a little more on the side as they go about their duties.

Well, compared to the damage output of skarboyz in CC, I would imagine that a rokkit would be a drop in the pan. It is weird to me based sheerly on the math and Ghaz that they're not more common.

With boys being so stupid expensive right now and being neutered relative to SM infantry it seems weird to spend 8 ppm for something that piddly.

I don't think a full strength skarboyz unit would get their full weight in combat ever, but it would help if each model was basically a nob in their own right instead of a french tickler.

I've always been skeptical of rokkits, let alone shoota boyz right now. In 5th they were mathematically ideal against tactical marines, now they just seem anemic and pathetic even without a -1 hit.

Troop choice marines have literally gotten better in every conceivable way since then, it's just hard not to see it as a case study in the balance of power.

The cover save change above anything else is really disturbing in the shooting phase. A +1 to 3+ effectively doubles their durability, and SM are purpose built for hugging cover.

 Tomsug wrote:
This is only source of info about how to play green tide I know...

https://www.goonhammer.com/tournament-report-labor-day-gt/

Well I' ve read it after alonger time again and this dude had a greentide and weirdboy improved to be warphead and in fact only think he cast is Psychic ritual.

No T1 Da Jumping boyz into the enemy. No boyz in telyport. In 5 consequent games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rokkits on boyz - I agree, it' s a waste of points. I played them for a few games and they do nothing for a lot of points.
There are Tankbusta bombs to play the lottery with the explosives and they are for free.

I'm not a fan of Da Jump in this edition. Boyz can reach the action without it and if the opponent is smart they won't really get a juicy spot to appear. I like putting meganobz to tellyporta instead. 2CPs instead of 75 points for a weirdboy sounds fair to me and 5 dudes have no problems to appear wherever they need to be.

I'm also not a fan of putting meganobz in trukks, or bonebreakas. If the vehicle is wrecked there are high chances to lose 1 or more models. I only accept 10 boyz + up to 5 meganobz in a BW as I can remove some boyz as casualties if the transport blows up. But only in lists that are based on armored stuff.

A couple of trukks in a greentide can only work on those tables that are extremely crowded with lots of tall and large pieces of terrain, like necromunda style cities, which is not what I typically play. Even then I'd rather tellyport the meganobz.

I agree about rokkits and kombi rokkits. Spare the points and try to fit an additional mek gun, buggy or bomb squigs for tankbustas, if you have them, instead.

 Blackie wrote:
... I like putting meganobz to tellyporta instead. 2CPs instead of 75 points for a weirdboy sounds fair to me and 5 dudes have no problems to appear wherever they need to be.

I'm also not a fan of putting meganobz in trukks, or bonebreakas. If the vehicle is wrecked there are high chances to lose 1 or more models. I only accept 10 boyz + up to 5 meganobz in a BW as I can remove some boyz as casualties if the transport blows up. But only in lists that are based on armored stuff.
....

I very much agree in most.

I'm not a fan of any type of DS of the CC units. Well, even the Evil Sunz have about 50% chance (correction 73%) to fail the charge and than what? Goffs worse. You need to drop 2 squads simultaneously to be pretty sure, one of them charge.



Transport have a chance to put the MANz in better position for charge, but the damage on them is definitely a big issue as you said.
What is important imho is to put just a small squad (3, max 4) in the simple trukk. Make them secondary target to kill. 5 MANz is primary target. Any CC version of Battlewagon is primary target. 3 MANz in Trukk are less juicy.

Plus Trukk give them some protection and can block the LOS

On other other hand, any vehicle in greentide list is “send the meltas there, because there is no other choice” target...

As can be seen above - one Weirdboy for 75 p in greentide list with pretty solid chance to control the centr of the field fot first 3 turns has a pretty solid chance to pass Psychic Ritual for 15VP

While I agree with a lot of what's being said here I just want to point out that Evil Sunz do not have a roughly 50% chance to fail the charge, those are more the odds for every other clan. Evil Sunz have a 73% chance of making the charge out of deepstrike (assuming optimal placement).

I personally run vehicle heavy lists and "da jump" is pretty solid then, but that's just for slingshotting grots up the board to be hidden around objectives etc.

 Tomsug wrote:


I'm not a fan of any type of DS of the CC units. Well, even the Evil Sunz have about 50% chance to fail the charge and than what? Goffs even worse. You need to drop 3 squads simultaneously to be pretty sure, one of them charge.

Are you including the charge-rerolls? Because with our unique ability to re-roll single dice if needed our chances are much better (if you re-roll any and all results of 3 or lower, it's around 75%). I hope that rule is not going to change.

Ahh, you' re right. 73%. Corrected and corrected to 2 squads required.

SemperMortis wrote:

Honestly, I'm going to be going to a tournament soon where I bring 180 boyz to the table with Ghaz because Feth anti-vehicle weapons

Prey you dont vs a Keepers list man, I played 180 boyz+Ghaz vs them - never again.

 Sluggaloo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Honestly, I'm going to be going to a tournament soon where I bring 180 boyz to the table with Ghaz because Feth anti-vehicle weapons

Prey you dont vs a Keepers list man, I played 180 boyz+Ghaz vs them - never again.

Out of interest is it a hard counter of sorts? If so why's that?

Well the 180 skarboy list is all in on melee, vs a bigger fish.

You've spent 6cp on getting strength 5 (useless vs keepers).

Let's start with deployment, the Keepers threat range is 14 inch move, d6 inch advance, then 2d6 charge, so easily 24 inches. If you deploy on the line you can expect 3 keepers in your face turn 1 if they get first turn, and if you go first you can... advance forward and give them an easier charge? Or maybe stay put and lose a turn? Lose/Lose.

Gazzy suddenly is really sad if he rolls a 1 or a 2 to hit (Keepers are -1 to hit in combat) add in a 4++ invuln onto a keeper and it isn't going down. They can smite into him and then attack - so that is 8 damage onto him at once.

Sylleske (named slaaneshi demon prince) has a million attacks, a million shots, and can fight (or was it shoot?) again after consolidating. Gross :(

So your best case scenario is you somehow charge down a keeper with all your goff buffs and outright kill it. And then you realise that they all get fights first (so you activate your charging unit, then they fight, then they can interrupt to fight with another Keeper, THEN you get to fight with a second unit, then they fight etc etc.

I managed to get first turn, and sacrificed a whole unit of 30 boys strung out infront of my army across the whole map as a receiving unit for all their chargers. Even with making all of my army charging into them turn 2, I got absolutely slaughtered.

It is the nature of a skew list, your victory conditions become skewed too. Your enemy either can't deal with you, in which case your board control gets an unsurmountable lead, or you get tabled.

Edit: Realising I sound overtly negative above, I still love orks and am having a lot of fun experimenting with them. I have had much better success with Deathskullz recently. The mix of obsec on sneaky Kommandos/Stormboys, Hyper efficient murder blenders like the Warboss on Bike and Deffdreads and scrapjets, Hyper efficient shooting in the Dragstas, infruriating cheap trucks filled with grots where if you get lucky on the 6++ invuln/ramshackle roll it can be a pain, Smasha guns holding the backline and screening out enemy scramblers. And don't get me started with the burnabommer ... that thing is the most fun I've had in 40k straight up.

I'm also going to experiment with some evil sunz kustom stompa build, giving them rerolls with Visions from the Smoke is TIGHT.

#WaaaghLyf

Edited: So sorry for all the spelling, on phone.

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Well the 180 skarboy list is all in on melee, vs a bigger fish.

You've spent 6cp on getting strength 5 (useless vs keepers).

Let's start with deployment, the Keepers threat range is 14 inch move, d6 inch advance, then 2d6 charge, so easily 24 inches. If you deploy on the line you can expect 3 keepers in your face turn 1 if they get first turn, and if you go first you can... advance forward and give them an easier charge? Or maybe stay put and lose a turn? Lose/Lose.

Gazzy suddenly is really sad if he rolls a 1 or a 2 to hit (Keepers are -1 to hit in combat) add in a 4++ invuln onto a keeper and it isn't going down. They can smite into him and then attack - so that is 8 damage onto him at once.

Sylleske (named slaaneshi demon prince) has a million attacks, a million shots, and can fight (or was it shoot?) again after consolidating. Gross :(

So your best case scenario is you somehow charge down a keeper with all your goff buffs and outright kill it. And then you realise that they all get fights first (so you activate your charging unit, then they fight, then they can interrupt to fight with another Keeper, THEN you get to fight with a second unit, then they fight etc etc.

I managed to get first turn, and sacrificed a whole unit of 30 boys strung out infront of my army across the whole map as a receiving unit for all their chargers. Even with making all of my army charging into them turn 2, I got absolutely slaughtered.

It is the nature of a skew list, your victory conditions become skewed too. Your enemy either can't deal with you, in which case your board control gets an unsurmountable lead, or you get tabled.

Edit: Realising I sound overtly negative above, I still love orks and am having a lot of fun experimenting with them. I have had much better success with Deathskullz recently. The mix of obsec on sneaky Kommandos/Stormboys, Hyper efficient murder blenders like the Warboss on Bike and Deffdreads and scrapjets, Hyper efficient shooting in the Dragstas, infruriating cheap trucks filled with grots where if you get lucky on the 6++ invuln/ramshackle roll it can be a pain, Smasha guns holding the backline and screening out enemy scramblers. And don't get me started with the burnabommer ... that thing is the most fun I've had in 40k straight up.

I'm also going to experiment with some evil sunz kustom stompa build, giving them rerolls with Visions from the Smoke is TIGHT.

#WaaaghLyf

Edited: So sorry for all the spelling, on phone.

A regular Keeper is T7 with 16 wounds. At full strength it gets 10 attacks hitting on 2s for 8.3 hits. It wounds on 3s with its Claw and 2s for its sword and is rerolling 1s. so basically 7-8 wounds. So assuming the higher end of 8, that leaves 21 boyz and a nob. Those 21 Skarboyz (doesn't matter except the goff klan trait) get 2 attacks base, +1 for over 20, +1 for choppaz and likely +1 for ghaz. So 105 attacks hitting on 4s because of the rule. Thats 61 hits (exploding 6s), wounding on 5s means 20 ish wounds. The normal keepers only get a 5+ invuln save so 13-14 wounds go through, the nob swings with 5 Saw attacks which still hit on 4s because you cant stack - to hit modifiers, so 2.5 hits, wounds on 3s so 1.6ish wounds for 1 unsaved wound and 2dmg on average so you just killed the Keeper if you are lucky, if not its down to 1 wound. So you sacrificed 64pts of boyz and killed or just about killed a seeker in 1 turn.

Don't get me wrong, those are all planet bowling ball numbers without any game shenanigans happening, but the point is goff boyz can and will make their points back vs. a keeper on average.

That special character you mentioned is basically just a Keeper with a different weapons, the whip is deadly against orkz, especially if its aura effects itself as well. But its going to average 16 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s and wounding on 4s (3s if its aura works on itself). No armor save, so yeah that will mess you up, but still leaves you with at least 15ish boyz alive and the fight twice strat will help alleviate some of these problems. Also, it appears not to have the -1 to hit aura

You're gonna have a really hard time actually fitting all of those models in melee. But you are right, you can, and will severely wound/kill a keeper - on the one turn you're able to charge. That is best case scenario though. They still have Shalaxi, Sylleske, two other Keepers and likely some fiends (which are no joke vs boys).

You will be taking a lot, a lot of damage on their turn from just their psychic phase alone (and from shooting if you count Sylleske and any Keepers with whips). Pavane as a power is insane vs you (roll a doce for each model in enemy unit, on a 6 deal a mortal wound), so assuming you'll start a fight phase with a full squad of boys will not always be the case.

If you are in melee still at any point and haven't charged them - you're going to be losing a lot of boys as all of their units will fight first. This is the rule that really makes the match up such an uphill battle.

It's definitely not unwinnable, but it is a very difficult match up, and will likely hinge on if Ghazzy is able to kill a Keeper in one fight phase.

If I had brought three weird boys, it would likely have been a very different game, but we had both gone into the game not knowing each others lists. So yeah - maybe there is design space left to allow for a weird boy blob moving up the board screened by Gazzy.

 Sluggaloo wrote:
You're gonna have a really hard time actually fitting all of those models in melee. But you are right, you can, and will severely wound/kill a keeper - on the one turn you're able to charge. That is best case scenario though. They still have Shalaxi, Sylleske, two other Keepers and likely some fiends (which are no joke vs boys).

You will be taking a lot, a lot of damage on their turn from just their psychic phase alone (and from shooting if you count Sylleske and any Keepers with whips). Pavane as a power is insane vs you (roll a doce for each model in enemy unit, on a 6 deal a mortal wound), so assuming you'll start a fight phase with a full squad of boys will not always be the case.

If you are in melee still at any point and haven't charged them - you're going to be losing a lot of boys as all of their units will fight first. This is the rule that really makes the match up such an uphill battle.

It's definitely not unwinnable, but it is a very difficult match up, and will likely hinge on if Ghazzy is able to kill a Keeper in one fight phase.

If I had brought three weird boys, it would likely have been a very different game, but we had both gone into the game not knowing each others lists. So yeah - maybe there is design space left to allow for a weird boy blob moving up the board screened by Gazzy.

A trick with that might be to position your models in such a way as to allow Ghaz to heroically intervene. I believe that the Keepers are unable to hit ghaz if they did not charge him, so if he heroically intervenes because he is surrounded by boyz then he gets to fight for free without being targeted and Ghaz gets 5 attacks hitting on 3s (rerolling 1s) and wounding on 2s. If he gets the average rolls he should be dealing 8ish dmg to a keeper as well at full strength.

*** Side note, but Ghaz is a 300pt fething model, he deserves at the least 2 more attacks base. In fact, I would argue a Keeper is at the least AS good as Ghaz and they are significantly cheaper than him.

They changed Heroic Intervention this edition, now if you heroically intervene into combat with people that charged you the chargers will now be able to target you even if they didn't declare your H.I. unit as charge targets.

+1 On Gazzy being way too pricy, give the man some more attacks - or at least a special profile for dealing with hordes (some form of sweeping attacks). Remember, the painboy is mandatory for him, along with the CP cost I volved in keeping him healed. The cost is real.

 Sluggaloo wrote:
They changed Heroic Intervention this edition, now if you heroically intervene into combat with people that charged you the chargers will now be able to target you even if they didn't declare your H.I. unit as charge targets.

+1 On Gazzy being way too pricy, give the man some more attacks - or at least a special profile for dealing with hordes (some form of sweeping attacks). Remember, the painboy is mandatory for him, along with the CP cost I volved in keeping him healed. The cost is real.

I'm convinced GW massively over-estimated (Seems like a trend with orkz) how good he would be for us and how effective that 4 wounds per phase thing really is, and really, the saddest part is he only gets 5 attacks to start with. 5! I get it though, we can't have Ghaz with more attacks than a Primaris Captain, that would be absurd.

Willing to bet they thought the wound shenanigans meant 3 rounds to kill him.
GW has proven in the past they dont know their own rules that well. Several times.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Willing to bet they thought the wound shenanigans meant 3 rounds to kill him.
GW has proven in the past they dont know their own rules that well. Several times.

Yeah it was rather telling that the first time I ever played against an Ork list with Ghaz in it, I killed him turn 1. Shooting phase I hit him with lots of dakka, charge phase I hit him with a pair Scrapjetz using the 3D6 strat on one of them so 2 D3 mortal wounds on a roll of 4+ and D3 mortal wounds on 2+. In the assault phase I managed to get 4 more dmg on him from the scrapjets, poof, 300pt ghaz dead in 1 turn basically from 1 strat and 2 scrapjets. Didn't even really provide much of a distraction Carnifex since I didn't even dedicate his points cost to killing him in 1 turn.

Ghaz needs buffs if he is going to stay competitive, at the moment hes only good because hes part of a skew list that ignores most of our opponents weapons/units.

Hey guys. im trying to figure out how proper threat saturation works for orks, so i tried to put together a Bad Moon list. Not that i have much knowledge about Bad Moon, but i was thinking about a Bad Moonz Mech list. I also made a Goff Mekboss buzzgob list. I also intend to put down some Deffskulls lists but for now i wanted to try bad moon as i rarely ever run that klan.

I wish i had buggies but i dont really have any of worth. Would you guys be friends and maybe review if you think they could, may be work? I think ive gotten the hang on making infantry lists, but im very bad at making Ork Mech lists. I know buggies lists are amazing but im really lacking buggies, so i will have to do with what i have.


Am i understanding it correctly with this list? That you dont mix and match infantry and mechs. Furthermore could this list work in a semi competitive way? I had a list where i changed a gorkanaut for the morkanaut simply because it has more shots with its deffstorm mega shoota, and then one dakkajet became a burna bomma for suicide missions. The biggest issue i have with the list is me, missing out on 2 unit slots in the spearhead department. So i guess it makes more sense to ditch maybe a kannon wagon to not waste 3 CP or how ever much it is to run a spearhead detatchment.

The warboss will be in a trukk along side the boyz, and he will have 2 different flamethrowers essentially, the scorcha and his dunderbuss.Will his 3d6 flamethrower total shots work? I have no idea but it will be fun to try out.


The Goff List:


I want to tellyport the gorkanaut, and run up the field with deffdreads and mega dreads, while keeping Buzzgob buffing the Morkanaut. My biggest issue with the list is im not having the 2 boyz groups in trukks i feel.
Hopefully the Burna bomma can lay waste to some light infantry and make some way before my heavy hitters arrive, and then of course, it will suicide itself.

What do you guys feel otherwise?

The way i see heavy mech lists, i have a hard time seeing it work properly for orks because our units arent duable, but maybe you guys know how to put them together better than me? Admittedly i wanted to try a goff mech list simply because of Buzzgob.I wanted to really try and buff some units with his abilities, as hitting on 3s with sparkly bitz in the shooting phase sounded amazing with a morkanaut.

Well, none of the lists benefits from Bad Moon / Goff so much. Both can benefit from Deathskulls pretty well.

First list - nice shooting. You need however some CC to punch a space on the objectives. Skip the useless kombiweapons and give the nobz double killsaw. This could help little bit.

Maybe put some 3-4MANZ squads in on trukk at least.

Dakkajet is pretty suboptimal right now. Take two wazbooms or Bommers or combination of this instead.

Skip the wrecking ball, useless.

Da Boomer is wors than kannonwagon. Either skip the Gunwagon at all, or change it to ZagZap - I use it due the Jidmah' s tip for about a month and hey man, that' s the gun orks need.

In final you could have a list, that can stay back first 2 turn and shoot down anything that moves and than rush forward to collect the points.


Second list
I'm sceptical about abilitity of deffdreads to march over the field. All my list based on “march over the field” worked more like “die in the middle”.
However 3-4KMB deathskull deffdreads can be very solid choice for cheap money.

I play planes a lot and it is hard to play them right. These are my notes for playing them right:
1. They are primary target. Burna bommer is 100% number 1 target. So if go second, he is dead. Only protection is the lack pf longrange anti tank.
2. Because of 1. deploy them as far as possible and use two at least. One will survive.
3. It is pretty often better do not drop the bommer. Opponent is usually scared like a hell from him so let him waste his shooting on plane above his head with 50% chance to explode and keep your wazboom this way alive. Because that actually can kill some hard models behind the lines.
4. And that is the point. That is why take Jets. To kill LOS ignoring or super range bastards in his own deploy.
5. One Bommer can kill just low number 3W elites (melta bastards) or a lot of cheap stuff.. damaged models usually heal/repair himself before you can shoot them again.
6. Take two wazbooms. That van do a hell damage. It' s in fact 6 smashgunz in opponents deploy.
7. Or take 4 bommers. That is minimum 6-9 MW to same spot. That can kill the army.

Or skip the flyiers at all, like I 'm dooing right now. Their downside is, that you basicly give the enemy target he can shoot at. Because they will be close. If you combine it with the army that moves to the center and want to be close, than perfect! If you have a shooting army camping first turn in the back, that you give a juicy targets to those enemy gunz, that would stay silent in without your jets and do you 0 damage...

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, none of the lists benefits from Bad Moon / Goff so much. Both can benefit from Deathskulls pretty well.

First list - nice shooting. You need however some CC to punch a space on the objectives. Skip the useless kombiweapons and give the nobz double killsaw. This could help little bit.

Maybe put some 3-4MANZ squads in on trukk at least.

Dakkajet is pretty suboptimal right now. Take two wazbooms or Bommers or combination of this instead.

Skip the wrecking ball, useless.

Da Boomer is wors than kannonwagon. Either skip the Gunwagon at all, or change it to ZagZap - I use it due the Jidmah' s tip for about a month and hey man, that' s the gun orks need.

In final you could have a list, that can stay back first 2 turn and shoot down anything that moves and than rush forward to collect the points.


Second list
I'm sceptical about abilitity of deffdreads to march over the field. All my list based on “march over the field” worked more like “die in the middle”.
However 3-4KMB deathskull deffdreads can be very solid choice for cheap money.

I play planes a lot and it is hard to play them right. These are my notes for playing them right:
1. They are primary target. Burna bommer is 100% number 1 target. So if go second, he is dead. Only protection is the lack pf longrange anti tank.
2. Because of 1. deploy them as far as possible and use two at least. One will survive.
3. It is pretty often better do not drop the bommer. Opponent is usually scared like a hell from him so let him waste his shooting on plane above his head with 50% chance to explode and keep your wazboom this way alive. Because that actually can kill some hard models behind the lines.
4. And that is the point. That is why take Jets. To kill LOS ignoring or super range bastards in his own deploy.
5. One Bommer can kill just low number 3W elites (melta bastards) or a lot of cheap stuff.. damaged models usually heal/repair himself before you can shoot them again.
6. Take two wazbooms. That van do a hell damage. It' s in fact 6 smashgunz in opponents deploy.
7. Or take 4 bommers. That is minimum 6-9 MW to same spot. That can kill the army.

Or skip the flyiers at all, like I 'm dooing right now. Their downside is, that you basicly give the enemy target he can shoot at. Because they will be close. If you combine it with the army that moves to the center and want to be close, than perfect! If you have a shooting army camping first turn in the back, that you give a juicy targets to those enemy gunz, that would stay silent in without your jets and do you 0 damage...

Thanks for your reply.

About bad moon list:

I think i will try and ditch the Gunwagon then in return for something else, maybe more punchy stuff. I did change the Nobz to kombi weapon with rokkits by the last minute, otherwise they had powerklaws originally. Guess i will change it back. I dont have any Nobz with killsaws sadly so it will have to be killsaws. I thought the Dakkajets would be good with bad moonz as 6 supa shootas have 18 shots, which would be a decent potion of 1s to reroll, otherwise hitting on 4s if i go for the same target.

But you are right. the Kannonwagon dont actually have a ton of shots so they would be better with deathskulls. In fact only the dakkajets benefits from bad moonz. If i should make a proper bad moonz army it would have to be 2 dakkajets and 1 gorkanaut maybe, at least they would have a lot of shots to benefit from the culture. I was hoping the burna bommas would be less good than Dakkajets when you went bad moon. i guess maybe not. I only went for wrecking balls because i was down to 1980 or so points and i had nothing to put points on otherwise :/

In general about the wazbom blasta jets, i sadly dont have those models. Im not sure i want to pretend my burna bomma/dakka jets are wazboms beause they do look visibly different. So i would have to buy those models first. Dakkajets and burnabommas however, look alike i feel. But i do have a question. What do you mean 2 wazboms is the equivilent of 6 smasha guns in the enemys fields? I mean they both have 1 smasha gun, and then they have those wazbom mega kannons which closely resembles smasha guns. But you only your actual smasha guns get that +1 to hit after you've designated a target to be +1 to hit. Your mega kannons still hit on 5s. So ive been kind of afraid of buying the model in case it wouldnt be good enough.

About the Goff list:
I hear what you say. Deffdreads are probably going to die in the middle. But im not sure what my alternative is when i go for a mek list. Maybe just more trukk boyz up the field instead? I guess i kinda ended up making a thematic army too, as i wanted units that benefits from Mekboss buzzgobs shinanigans ability to give +1 to hit. at least the morkanaut will stay, and i want the mega dreads to stay too, but maybe thats all i needed.

Thanks for your reply anyway, its been insightful

1. Dakkajet - I used Bad Moon Dakkajet in 8th in pair with Wazboom. In 8th. There was always some GEQ to kill. Now, I don' t see a lot of targets for Dakkajet. 6/-1/1 is a not big deal..

Anyway Burnabommer shooting is pure trash. His point is in bombing (almost twice via strategem)

2. Wazboom - yeah, you' re right, it' s not exactly 3 SMG = 1 Wazboom, but deathskull wazboom benefit from clan rerolls, which shift it to be let' s say equal.....

3. General list building - your list should have a layers.

Look at my list I play right know:


Layer 1 are Battlewagons. Two of them shoot over the field and all of them goes slightly forward to be n1 target for charge. BW with deffrola with MANz on board goes a lot forward, gunwagon with boyz and Megamek one step behind and the last is Kannonwagon.

Layer 2 - Buggies stay in back and snipe whaever cross the half of the field and I play WWSWF on buggies.

Layer 3 are the MANz and megaboss and grots / boyz inside the transport. Have you shoot down the BW? You have obsec troops on objective now...

So opponent have to choose what to kill. More dangerous and WWSWF buggies that are too far, or BW MANz driving to objectives and shooting him of the board? This is another layer.

Bw with manz and watboss and sometimes even gunwagon goes on one flank to objectives, do the primary attack on one objectives. This makes a big mess on one flank, a lot of units destroied on both sides. This is T1-T2 and sometimes even T3.

During T3 buggies starts the real attack. On the other flank targeting objectives on the othe half of the board incl opponent homes objective. With SJD and kommandos, easy to open another front far away.

So again the layers. If the opponent try to stop my wagons on one flank, he weaken his other flank. And he has no chance to move the units back, because my primary target are fast antitank units. So in T3 he has just anti infatry or slow units. Shield terminators? Well, in this scenario they mostly sitting on the objective attacked by my primary attack on begining and have no chance to do anything, because I moved all my remaing units away from them to control the rest of the field.

That is btw. the big adventage of Kannonwagon. He can move 12” no problem. That is a lot.

If he don't push all his units to againts my BW, Manz and warboss, fine. They continue the attack to sieze his own deploy objectives and the second attack goes the same way. I rotate the front 90degrees. Fast buggies just change the direction and scrapjets change their role from the horn of second attack to the defenders of the weaken flank by moving back and shooting down enemy units from my home and midfield objectives on their side.

Bull with horns. Enemy can choose, which one hits him.

Oh yes of course - there are just T6 multiwound models on the table T1 (except one grots behind LOSblock).

You can imagine, that such nice theory is very different in praxis


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wazboom model - you have all pieces you need. Cut, drill and magnetize:

Thanks for your input. Sadly my own two burna bommas (or actually they are dakka jets) were bought from ebay so i dont have any of the leftover parts. Im not too keen on ripping them apart either. I guess the next plane i buy will be a wazbom blasta jet then.

But your point about wazboms and Deathskulls, that makes sense. i forgot about that, so i guess it almost is like having 3 Mek gunz per Wazbom. But ill try and model my army lists around your tips, with layers and that.

I feel like you have a great list, but again, the problem lies in me not having buggies. I have 1 KBB, 1 dragsta, 1 scrapjet. I feel like making buggies work and making lists around buggies seem relatively easy, in theory (again, i havent tried them out because i dont have them, but when i do theory crafting i feel like making a buggies list is decently easy), but making a mech based army not based on buggies i somewhat fail at. I just feel like i run short on both firepower and durbility when i run after Morkanauts, gorkanauts, massed kannon fire from kannonwagons etc.

I can make infantry armies, like, my main army is a Goff army with 90 boyz and 5 Mek Guns that runs relatively well. But Actual Mech armies? Im not super good at putting that on the table. You know, for those times you are tired of running 90 boyz and wanna try something else.

Can you come up with 1 or 2 proper armies revolving around mechs that dont use buggies for orks? And the funny thing is, despite the Morkanaut is in the teal color in terms of usability, there arent actually any winning lists using them. Same for deff dreads.

But im not competitive, not yet. I have only played for 1 entire year next month so im still learning. So the lists im trying to make just need to be casual really, but still not trash so i try to do better. Your tips have been gold btw. thanks. I will try and use the idea of layers and saturation. At first half a year ago, i thought i understood saturation and not mixing infantry and mechs, but i guess i hadnt fully understood it. I think i understand it a little bit better now.

If you buy some stormboys, here's a really fun and competitive list using your models. (Sorry, it is Deathskulls, they are just That good for mech though) BTW those three dreads re a NIGHTMARE for your enemy. Dropping from the telly porta, 2cp ramming speed says hi.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Noticed you have 90 boys, run one of your big stompy morkanauts as a kustom stompa with this EvilSunz list . Pop 'More Dakka', Give the stompa full hit rerolls from your weirdboy and keep your weirdboy alive with his cybork body and the painboy (he will perils every other turn from all of those boys powering him up) Proper meme list.

Sluggaloo lists could work. First one could work better, second one could be super fun

Or you can try something like the following one. Actually, it isn' t a top tier list, but having 2 very heavy models able to do turn 1 charge gives you pretty solid chance to do hit. 2 motobosses, 2 squads of manz inside.

2 trukkboyz and lot of stormboyz and kommandos to do the mess around and morkanaut with the weirdboy like fire support.

I guess there is not enough dakka, maybe skip some stormboyz and take something else.... It' s just Saturday morning inspiration.....


Buggies needs to be in threes, or twos at least to work...

Or wait... another inspiration...

I guess there could be a way how to skew Liam Hacket list from Adeleide open this year to your models. Just switch the Scrapjets to Deffdreads and ad some another dakka. (Google the list)