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I'm not sure who to vote for. My gut feeling is Orkeo but there isn't really enough evidence against him at the moment.

But, hey, what the hell (I shouldn't have been so gullible and changed my original vote).

Vote: Orkeosaurus

What exactly is it everyone wants me to talk about?

Seriously. I do try to contribute, but I tend to run out of observations to make rather quickly.

Vote Count 3.0 - "Lets put some wild guess's and slander out there"

0 - Manchu
0 - Lord of battles
0 - Arctik_Firangi
0 - Dastardly Dave
0 - Paul Atreides
0 - VikingScott
0 - Inquisitor_Syphonious
0 - Gathering Storm
2 - Orkeosaurus (Arctik_Firangi Gathering Storm)



Not Voting

Dastardly Dave
Orkeosaurus
Inquisitor_Syphonious
VikingScott
Manchu
Lord of battles
Paul Atreides


With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Countdown

I've notice that you've tried to contribute constructively but some of the times it has seemed like a form of mis-direction.

Aren't there only nine of us still alive, meaning 5 to lynch?

@GS - Yes. Fixed.

Gathering Storm wrote:I've notice that you've tried to contribute constructively but some of the times it has seemed like a form of mis-direction.

People keep saying this, but unless someone is holding out of me, we don't know which "direction" we're supposed to be going in the first place. I'm trying to throw stuff out there. Some of it might be wrong, but that's part of the process; it's supposed to be evaluated, I'm not posting with the intention of converting everyone to what I believe because I still don't have any idea who the damn sorcerer is.

On that note, it seems like GS, Manchu, AF, and I are doing most of the talking.

Manchu: I've been worried about you from the beginning. You can play scum in such a manner that's indistinguishable from town, in my experience. However, as far as I can tell you haven't done anything too suspicious in this game.

Arctik: You were a bit hostile towards me near the beginning, but that didn't actually seem suspicious, just an honest probe. But recently you've been excessively hostile. You say that you voted for me for not having talked enough, while simultaneously complaining about me having talked at all (because you say that I'm "misdirecting" people when I do so. Interestingly you also complained that GS was too easily convinced by my post, even though he now seems to have sided with you and your accusations of misdirection just as quickly).

I also notice that you didn't vote for any of the five people who are talking less than me. I don't know what it is you're trying to do, but it doesn't seem like it's "just trying to get me to talk". Especially when we're down to five to kill.

Vote: Arctik_Firangi

Until you can explain your inconsistency.

Note: I would ask that anyone considering a further vote against Arctik to think it through carefully, we're treading a thin line in any case.

Gathering Storm: no offense, but you seem like you're all over the place. We still have eight or nine days before a decision needs to be made (I'm pretty sure, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this), don't accidentally get someone lynched right at the beginning. Once again, it's only five to kill, which means it's probably only two or three town votes to kill.

Everyone else: I haven't seen much from you guys. If you have any comments on the current situation, I would ask that you share them.

General Note: to further vote for me at this point in time would seriously put me at risk, so I ask that you consider it carefully. Furthermore, if I'm lynched quickly, the last voter, second to last voter, or last two voters are likely to be scum.

Orkeosaurus wrote:General Note: to further vote for me at this point in time would seriously put me at risk, so I ask that you consider it carefully. Furthermore, if I'm lynched quickly, the last voter, second to last voter, or last two voters are likely to be scum.

This bears special emphasis. We're too early in the day and too late in the game for this kind of pile up. To even the odds, I'm following Orkeo's lead. vote: Arctik_Firangi

I'm not actually convinced at this point that either A_F or Orkeo is scum. But in the case that one or the other is, my vote is cast for the sake of balancing the threat. I'm more convinced that the truly quiet players are the suspicious ones.

Hmm... while I'm thankful for your support, I'm also a bit worried that this whole thing will slingshotting back and kill Arctik prematurely.

I would now ask that other players refrain from voting for either me or Arctik, at least until we have some more time to discuss things. Three votes is too liable to sink that person.

To clarify, I will immediately unvote A_F as soon as the vote count against Orkeo drops to one.

We have ten days here people. At this point in the game, Day can speed up way, way too fast for the good of Town.

Well I'm voting for Paul as I haven't seen him say anything for a while.

VOTE: Paul

VikingScott wrote:Well I'm voting for Paul as I haven't seen him say anything for a while.

VOTE: Paul

Hi Scott! It makes me warm and fuzzy inside to know you missed me.

Well, I have very little to add, but I'd like to ask you about something, Manchu. After I said I thought the lynch of fifty was fluke, you said that was a very suspicious thing to say, because that was handwaving away our only strong current lead. I admit now that your argument holds at least as much, if not more, water. But if you are right, if the scum players knew exactly what they were doing, where does that put us? Why is it a great lead?

It doesn't point to who the scum are. But it does give us a pretty definite idea of what they are capable of and sense of their target priority.

We should keep in mind that the investigative ability is more powerful for scum than for town because while we might have to investigate every other townie before turning up a scum, they already know who each other are and can just choose among us. This makes it even more dangerous for us to try and drop hints about having special powers.

Of course. I should have understood.

Manchu, I have to admit that I've never seen you attempt to assert just this much authority over a game of Mafia. As I've said before, I know you're a smart player, but you're usually more subtle with regard to metagame. That's a personal observation.

You seem to be quite defensive of Orkeo - you claim that you are being cautious but it just doesn't add up. If there was a mob-rush of Orkeo, your vote wouldn't make any difference. EDIT: You are in this together in 'warning' us against voting further for Orkeo and early lynching.

It's all too easy for you to use your trial-by-fire rhetoric. If I cast a vote, I don't have enough evidence to justify it. If you cast a vote, you're doing what you think is sensible - creating a bandwagon, playing defensively... It stinks to me.
If you are scum, then you are at no risk running bandwagons, or steering lynches as you see fit. You know who your allies are. That's what I felt yesterday when you so willingly switched your bandwagon to TherVadam at my request.

A random lynch early in the day is no different to any other random lynch - it is certainly no less dangerous than a desperate and especially random one late in the day phase, when scum can align to lynch as they see fit by ensuring that the vote fills out, at very little risk amidst the chaos. If it's in their favour it's better than a no-lynch, and scum have the advantage of knowing when to lynch or not to. Contrary to what Orkeosaurus has claimed, there is no discernable likelihood of anyone who votes at any time being scum. Orkeo's vote is locked in for now so if I'm lynched that that makes Manchu and Orkeo unlikely to be scum by that logic. I don't buy that for a second. Lynch votes by townies are essentially random and can occur at any time - in the hands of scum, votes are deliberately used tools.

Manchu - every vote you have placed has been confident and has served a justifiable purpose. That and the fact that you're an excellent manipulator constitutes why I think you're more dangerous than anything, and for now I feel I should focus on you.

Unvote: Orkeosaurus
Vote: Manchu

As good as my word, I unvote: Arctik_Firangi.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:You seem to be quite defensive of Orkeo - you claim that you are being cautious but it just doesn't add up.

Strange you didn't repay my strong defense of you with a vote against me. You must be pretty suspicious of Orkeo at this point. Or you just liked having someone stick up for you?

Arctik-Firangi wrote:Lynch votes by townies are essentially random and can occur at any time - in the hands of scum, votes are deliberately used tools.

This shows you've been reading my posts. But why don't you take it to the logical conclusion? Let me reiterate: at this point in the game, all scum need are two or three (depending on how many of them there are) townies to set up a bandwagon against and innocent so they can finish another of us early on. It becomes easier for them every turn.

Conversely, our advantage is that we have a little bit more of their pattern each turn. Our main disadvantage is mistrusting one another. And, of course, that mistrust is well-founded. I could care less if you pin a single vote on me. But if it becomes a pile-up, I'll fight. I'm not going to play the resigned martyr just because you post a wall of text. As I told TherVadam, that's how town loses. Speaking of which:

Acrtik_Firangi wrote:You know who your allies are. That's what I felt yesterday when you so willingly switched your bandwagon to TherVadam at my request.

Wow, that is amazing how eager you are to blame the lynch of an innocent that you started on me. I was totally open about the reasons I joined you. And yes, I did know who my allies were--namely, you, who I had staunchly defended. Nothing in your posts have made me seriously suspicious of you until I read this, followed immediately by your defense of early-day lynching. You've said my caution doesn't add up. Sadly, your zeal is starting to add up ominously.

Manchu wrote:As good as my word, I unvote: Arctik_Firangi.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:You seem to be quite defensive of Orkeo - you claim that you are being cautious but it just doesn't add up.

Strange you didn't repay my strong defense of you with a vote against me. You must be pretty suspicious of Orkeo at this point. Or you just liked having someone stick up for you?

Arctik-Firangi wrote:Lynch votes by townies are essentially random and can occur at any time - in the hands of scum, votes are deliberately used tools.

This shows you've been reading my posts. But why don't you take it to the logical conclusion? Let me reiterate: at this point in the game, all scum need are two or three (depending on how many of them there are) townies to set up a bandwagon against and innocent so they can finish another of us early on. It becomes easier for them every turn.

Feel free to vote for me. Your word is one thing, but you don't really prove anything one way or the other by keeping it. I owe you no allegiance, and you'll have to be more clear on what your 'strong defense' of me was if you insist on pushing the point. I've always made it clear that I don't trust you any more than the next man. What is your intention in trying to point out that I've been reading your posts? You would prefer that I follow a logical conclusion that rejects my own logic in preference of yours? I've already rejected your brandishing of Occam's Razor - it is not an authority, and nor are you.

Conversely, our advantage is that we have a little bit more of their pattern each turn. Our main disadvantage is mistrusting one another. And, of course, that mistrust is well-founded. I could care less if you pin a single vote on me. But if it becomes a pile-up, I'll fight. I'm not going to play the resigned martyr just because you post a wall of text. As I told TherVadam, that's how town loses. Speaking of which:

Acrtik_Firangi wrote:You know who your allies are. That's what I felt yesterday when you so willingly switched your bandwagon to TherVadam at my request.

Wow, that is amazing how eager you are to blame the lynch of an innocent that you started on me. I was totally open about the reasons I joined you. And yes, I did know who my allies were--namely, you, who I had staunchly defended. Nothing in your posts have made me seriously suspicious of you until I read this, followed immediately by your defense of early-day lynching. You've said my caution doesn't add up. Sadly, your zeal is starting to add up ominously.

This is a purely role-playing game. Every claim you make with regards to intent falls to the fact that you could easily play as if you were a townie - that's the point in essence. That's how you're supposed to play scum. I never blamed you for the lynch of TherVadam - I merely pointed out that you deliberately placed your vote but failed to offer a real explanation for it other than cheerful bandwagoning. Why take my statement so far out of context except in order to drop another little hint that I'm confronting your interests? You certainly attempted to counsel TherVadam, but what was the purpose in that situation when you intended to follow through in any case? A cause to claim that you are playing in the town's interests? Why would you need to make such a claim when your actions infer it?
Why appeal to an alliance between us? An alliance does not mean trust - in this case it merely means that we were both equally responsible for TherVadam's lynching.

I know you're a fighter. I've seen how you play when opposed. You don't have to tell me that, but feel free to warn the others. I foresee a lot of typing, but unfortunately our hours don't match up well... Nearly 1am here - Time for me to retire for night. Play smart, people. That includes the enemy.

What I really want to know is what form of evidence you expect to appear later in the day - as opposed to what we are aware of right now. There is more time for scum to build trust with the town players... but what else?

UNVOTE: Paul

Good to see you again and posting.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:A random lynch early in the day is no different to any other random lynch

No one is saying that it is. They're saying that players need time to determine who the scum is.

it is certainly no less dangerous than a desperate and especially random one late in the day phase, when scum can align to lynch as they see fit by ensuring that the vote fills out, at very little risk amidst the chaos. If it's in their favour it's better than a no-lynch, and scum have the advantage of knowing when to lynch or not to.

It's either random or it's not, it doesn't get "more random" just because time has passed. Scum can manipulate the voting process as easily near the beginning of the day as they can near the end, when no one is saying anything useful in either case.

Contrary to what Orkeosaurus has claimed, there is no discernable likelihood of anyone who votes at any time being scum. Orkeo's vote is locked in for now so if I'm lynched that that makes Manchu and Orkeo unlikely to be scum by that logic. I don't buy that for a second. Lynch votes by townies are essentially random and can occur at any time - in the hands of scum, votes are deliberately used tools.

I'm going to call bs on this. It most definitely is in the scum's favor to shut down the day early. As Manchu said "Scum prefer short, quiet days. The less time town has to deliberate, the better. Likewise, the less town deliberates during that time, the better. Therefore, scum would only get on a bandwagon earlier in the day."

Arctik_Firangi wrote:What I really want to know is what form of evidence you expect to appear later in the day - as opposed to what we are aware of right now. There is more time for scum to build trust with the town players... but what else?

Here's one piece of evidence for us to discuss:

What is it that you were previously saying constituted evidence against me, but that you could not reveal until a later date?

It's later now, and if you have any evidence, we want to hear it. A mistaken lynch today means the town is probably dead, it would take quite a stroke of luck to bring it back. We can't afford to get another innocent killed with the same "not talking enough", "talking too much and misleading people", "too quick to defend someone", "too quick to attack someone", "stalling instead of acting" gak that contradicts itself continuously and has gotten us nowhere so far.

Tell us what the evidence you have is. Maybe it will explain why you've suddenly become some sort of irrationalist, who claims that discussion will only serve to allow scum to trick people, and that we should all vote randomly.

I would like to hear evidence also. We need a scum lynch.

While my thread was mostly directed at Arctik, I would encourage any other players to comment on the current events themselves, either with relation to my post specifically, or any more general thoughts on our place in the game.

Following Orkeosaurus, I will reiterate my own call from yesterday that A_F reveal his "evidence" against him. Likewise, most of what you've said, I've also said.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that had wondered what had happened to A_F telling us his 'evidence'.

So c'mon, Arctik_Firangi, show us what you're evidence is.

Watcha got Firangi?

I'm minorly intrigued as well.

Did he mention more about it after page two? I swore he did, but I can't seem to find it.

Huh, absolutely no posts in almost two days?!

Do you think arctic is ill again? Maybe we should continue discussing like normal and then pester him when he shows up.

It's a problem when all the discussion is done by a few people. Means the game dies when they can't post.

To mix things up a little and get converstation started again. I shall do a vote.

VOTE: Artik_Firangi

I haven't seen any evidence against you or much that has been pressed to you. You seen a bit too clean. It occurs to me that someone who does most of the talking for town would be a good place to be for scum. It seems so for now anyway. This vote should maybe do something maybe probably not.

Discuss.

@Scott: I hope you are planning to take that vote off of A_F when he responds to the provocation, if he indeed does so. I know you must have read my analysis about this from before A_F's vote against me. So in the meantime, I vote: VikingScott.

Hang on. Let me go back and re-read.

Good idea Paul.

From what I can deduce (guess) the "evidence" is:
-something to do with Orkeosaurus' wolf name.
-something related to another comment or post Orkeo made.
-some information on a 'scum' agent/player

As to how relevant, useful or genuine this 'evidence' is, is anyone's guess.