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I think the little blurb about the parasite of Mortrex could be expanded up especially now that we have grey knights in the mix. Nids generally will rely on shaking and stunning vehicles as they draw close to get at the juicy bits. Unfortunately with fortitude that tactic is all but negated and hive tyrants just took another step back with reinforced aegis on top of psychic hoods making paroxism a more situational power on top of what (in my limited experience) is a relatively fragile platform considering the cost you're paying for it (240+ points and that's just for 1 effing guard and little extra bits).

Now the parasite will allow you to actually affect those GK vehicles and they run a strong risk of not only failing their power but injuring themselves further, while simultaneously having said parasite in a large unit of gargoyles and safe from all but really concentrated fire that probably wouldn't be entirely appropriate to shoot at gargoyles anyway.

I'll be happy to contribute more as I continue in my experimentation with the parasite

I'm having similar thoughts, and my FW warrior wings have arrived to facilitate my Parasite conversion (Ravener body). Should be interesting, at the very least.

I've tried the Parasite in two games with the thought they would improve the GK match up. I'm not impressed. We do have a problem with AV 13/14. I know that. Zoans are not totally reliable. Wecannot DS in pods against GK - warp quake. We need a HT with Hive Commander to get them early. So we wlk them. Not optimal in my mind.

At 1500 I'm struggling to find good AT and good cc against GK. It was easy to glance vehicles. Not so much with Fortitude. I have no room for T. Fexes and Trygons at 1500. So I'm using this:

==Gene Wars==

Tyranid Prime, Dual Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Regeneration 110
Tyranid Prime, Dual Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Regeneration 110

2 Hive Guard Brood 100
2 Hive Guard Brood 100
2 Venomthropes 110

4 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 4x Deathspitters, 4x Lashwhip and Bonesword, Toxin Sacs 220
4 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 4x Deathspitters, 4x Lashwhip and Bonesword, Toxin Sacs 220


7 Genestealer Brood, Toxin Sacs 119
7 Genestealer Brood, Toxin Sacs 119
7 Genestealer Brood, Toxin Sacs 119

21 Gargoyle Brood, Adrenal Glands; Toxin Sacs 168

---1495--->

It'sa decent enough all comers list but against the new codexes it is uphill. You really have to know how to deploy, when to 'go to ground', when to be aggressive. Little mistakes are costly. GK just fire away with their psycannons and Psyfillis dreads. They don't require the same level of expertise. DE pepper you with poison shots. Non-the-less I'm winning a few.

Personally I would never take nids anywhere below 1750, 1500 is just too restrictive for what could be brought to bare against them.

MrDrumMachine wrote:Personally I would never take nids anywhere below 1750, 1500 is just too restrictive for what could be brought to bare against them.

I am starting ti agree with this

Local tournaments and gaming is all 1500 points here on a 4'x4' board. Do you have any idea how over powered genestealers are when they are almost assured to be in combat the turn they come onto the board via outflank? Board size and point limits all have a big impact on what works and what doesn't and needs to be considered while building your list.

Heh, 4x4 skirmish games are just Stealerhammer. Throw in Ymgarls for a good chance at near 100% table coverage.

1500 on 6x4, however, is a nightmare.

Yes, 1750+ really starts to open up a few more possibilities. Really at 1500 you pretty much have to rely on stealers or tri terv list. I'm not keen on the tri Terv anymore - it's been failing me recently against a lot of the spammier new codex lists.

Swarmlord + genestealers (god I hate the SL so much) tends to be a good combo as well... swarmlord marches up the center wile genestealers outlfank and basically grantee where they want to come out. Your opponent will have to make the choice to stay in the center or go to the edges... both bad decisions.

Flaws in this tactic are few, but easily exploited. Tyrant and a swamlord, hive guard and then vanilla genestealers are a tactic I have seen people use and use successfully. Keeping the SL in cover is the most important part though...

Personally I would never take nids anywhere below 1750, 1500 is just too restrictive for what could be brought to bare against them.

Nidz hate low points games... in the same way eldar and CSM love low points games.

I do really good at 100 points with nids.

Yep, I do well with nids at any point size really. Only time I have ever lost with my nids was in a specific tournament scenario where I started 36 inches away against mech IG and they had space to back up. We did the math and on average with him not moving I was going to make it into assault on turn 5. So I don't really count that as a loss in the real sense.

If you want to learn how to beat grey knights? It is quite simple really. Proxy a GK army and play them two or three times, read the book. Each units weaknesses will become apparent quite quickly. I have a tyranid army in mind that I would bring against Grey Knights anyday. One thing you have to remember about grey knights. Their range is similar to ours. Their most potent weapons are range 24. That means that they have to be close. What do tyranids do well? Get close

Remember psychout grenades only work when the grey knight gets the charge. What will really mess up grey knights? Unit of hormagants with synapse neat by. Sure they all have power weapons but when your unit has a 6+ who cares? At that point they are marines with fewer dudes on the table.

Here are the armies I fear. Tau that go first(a Carbine markerlight army would shut down grey knights very VERY fast) , Horde orks, and Tyranids. Have not gotten a chance to play mechdar yet so I am looking forward to facing them but am kind of worried as that battle is all down to the dice(more so than usual)

Janthkin wrote:I'm having similar thoughts, and my FW warrior wings have arrived to facilitate my Parasite conversion (Ravener body). Should be interesting, at the very least.

Yeah, I bought those parts months ago but haven't assembled him yet. I also bought a Chapterhouse Alienid head to boot. Still, would you care to elaborate how the Parasite shuts down GK vehicles?

wyomingfox wrote:

Janthkin wrote:I'm having similar thoughts, and my FW warrior wings have arrived to facilitate my Parasite conversion (Ravener body). Should be interesting, at the very least.

Yeah, I bought those parts months ago but haven't assembled him yet. I also bought a Chapterhouse Alienid head to boot. Still, would you care to elaborate how the Parasite shuts down GK vehicles?

"Shuts down?" That might be stretching it too far. But I'm feeling the need for more Shadows in the Warp coverage (which will turn Cleansing Flame & Fortitude from almost-sure-things into 50/50 gambles, at best), and the Parasite offers the cheapest coverage I can add on an extremely mobile platform. A Prime is cheaper, but much slower. Flying Warriors are too easily killed by S8 autocannons, and I don't really like their battlefield role. The Parasite meshes well with the large squad(s) of gargoyles I already like to run, and brings some decent-strength rending along for the ride.

Janthkin wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

Janthkin wrote:I'm having similar thoughts, and my FW warrior wings have arrived to facilitate my Parasite conversion (Ravener body). Should be interesting, at the very least.

Yeah, I bought those parts months ago but haven't assembled him yet. I also bought a Chapterhouse Alienid head to boot. Still, would you care to elaborate how the Parasite shuts down GK vehicles?

"Shuts down?" That might be stretching it too far. But I'm feeling the need for more Shadows in the Warp coverage (which will turn Cleansing Flame & Fortitude from almost-sure-things into 50/50 gambles, at best), and the Parasite offers the cheapest coverage I can add on an extremely mobile platform. A Prime is cheaper, but much slower. Flying Warriors are too easily killed by S8 autocannons, and I don't really like their battlefield role. The Parasite meshes well with the large squad(s) of gargoyles I already like to run, and brings some decent-strength rending along for the ride.

I personally like that warriors are Instant deathed by str 8. In my list it makes the opponent have to think about who he is going to shoot at. The more they have to think the more likely they are going to make a mistake vrs no brainer target priority

Two x twein linked auto cannon. 2 shots, 12/9ths hit + 4/9ths on the re-roll or 16/9ths hit x2 so 32/9ths hit * 5/6 wounds so 80/27 wounds X .5(if you are not getting a cover save than you deserve to lose all the warriors in the world) so 40/27 or about 1 1/2 warriors. So two shooting will on average kill 3. I have no problem losing 3 warriors a turn to long range shooting like this. That is way less than I normally lose, and hey if they are shooting the warriors than they are ignoring the MC's. For warriors to work you just have to make your list work with them more so than the * no brainer* selections

Leth wrote:
I personally like that warriors are Instant deathed by str 8. In my list it makes the opponent have to think about who he is going to shoot at. The more they have to think the more likely they are going to make a mistake vrs no brainer target priority

Two x twein linked auto cannon. 2 shots, 12/9ths hit + 4/9ths on the re-roll or 16/9ths hit x2 so 32/9ths hit * 5/6 wounds so 80/27 wounds X .5(if you are not getting a cover save than you deserve to lose all the warriors in the world) so 40/27 or about 1 1/2 warriors. So two shooting will on average kill 3. I have no problem losing 3 warriors a turn to long range shooting like this. That is way less than I normally lose, and hey if they are shooting the warriors than they are ignoring the MC's. For warriors to work you just have to make your list work with them more so than the * no brainer* selections

I agree with the idea of target saturation but I would rather take raveners in my fast attack over shrikes because they're faster and cheaper and with rending claws are capable of catching things like those pesky eldar grav tanks and messing them up. Shrikes as a unit just get terribly expensive for what I consider a very mediocre return, I plan on testing them out more thoroughly to confirm, especially in comparison to raveners. On initial inspection shrikes seem like a unit to build an army around in order for them to work well at all.

Leth wrote:I personally like that warriors are Instant deathed by str 8. In my list it makes the opponent have to think about who he is going to shoot at. The more they have to think the more likely they are going to make a mistake vrs no brainer target priority

Two x twein linked auto cannon. 2 shots, 12/9ths hit + 4/9ths on the re-roll or 16/9ths hit x2 so 32/9ths hit * 5/6 wounds so 80/27 wounds X .5(if you are not getting a cover save than you deserve to lose all the warriors in the world) so 40/27 or about 1 1/2 warriors. So two shooting will on average kill 3. I have no problem losing 3 warriors a turn to long range shooting like this. That is way less than I normally lose, and hey if they are shooting the warriors than they are ignoring the MC's. For warriors to work you just have to make your list work with them more so than the * no brainer* selections

The problem is largely one of maintaining synapse & Shadows coverage.
-If you're using a lot of fast-moving bugs (e.g., gargoyles, raveners, or maybe hormagaunts), you'll need to keep synapse on them. You've only got a few options - you either need fast-moving synapse (Shrikes, the Parasite, a Flyrant), or you need large synapse bubbles (the Swarmlord, Tervigons casting Dominion). Given those options, I like the Parasite best - he can't be picked off by shooting (he's an IC, attached to a bunch of ablative gargoyles), and he has some interesting utility when multi-assaulting. Shrikes stand out as a great target for S8 shooting in such a scenario - they are expensive on a per-model basis, and removing the synapse from the front wave of assault decreases the threat. And I often can't stomach the price tag on the Flyrant; that's a LOT of points for 4 T6 wounds.

-If you want to move Shadows coverage around the board quickly, you've only got three options: Shrikes, the Parasite, and a Flyrant. As with Synapse coverage, the Parasite is the most survivable option, simply by virtue of his IC status. If your opponent is concerned about Shadows (because, for example, his whole army, including vehicles, is nothing but Psykers), then Shrikes are going to deserve their "Shoot me first!" sign, and he will happily spend a turn's worth of (multiple) Dreadnought fire shooting down 3 Shrikes.

Now, if your army doesn't include a bunch of gargoyles, or hormagaunts, you may not need fast-moving synapse. But even in my usual genestealer-heavy builds, I suspect I'm going to want more Shadows coverage, just to keep Cleansing Flame from auto-nuking my expensive bugs before they can even swing.

MrDrumMachine wrote:

Leth wrote:
I personally like that warriors are Instant deathed by str 8. In my list it makes the opponent have to think about who he is going to shoot at. The more they have to think the more likely they are going to make a mistake vrs no brainer target priority

Two x twein linked auto cannon. 2 shots, 12/9ths hit + 4/9ths on the re-roll or 16/9ths hit x2 so 32/9ths hit * 5/6 wounds so 80/27 wounds X .5(if you are not getting a cover save than you deserve to lose all the warriors in the world) so 40/27 or about 1 1/2 warriors. So two shooting will on average kill 3. I have no problem losing 3 warriors a turn to long range shooting like this. That is way less than I normally lose, and hey if they are shooting the warriors than they are ignoring the MC's. For warriors to work you just have to make your list work with them more so than the * no brainer* selections

I agree with the idea of target saturation but I would rather take raveners in my fast attack over shrikes because they're faster and cheaper and with rending claws are capable of catching things like those pesky eldar grav tanks and messing them up. Shrikes as a unit just get terribly expensive for what I consider a very mediocre return, I plan on testing them out more thoroughly to confirm, especially in comparison to raveners. On initial inspection shrikes seem like a unit to build an army around in order for them to work well at all.

Sorry I was talking about regular warriors -_-. Strikes are hit and miss with me. I think I could make them work and they fit the theme of my army, however points are already tight and I would have to drop something else that makes my army work to take them. It really is rough man. Just remember with the flyrant, he has rending, not ap3 or better so keep that in mind. He needs to do about

In my mind you don't need your synapse all over the place. Just where you are going to hit. Take advantage of precision strikes. Strike one part of his army hard and fast. Let everyone else use their powers, who cares their powers aren't doing anything to you.

Each psycannon(assuming no cover from rending) will put one wound on the hive tyrant. So it is a risk. However if you have the tyrant sit back and then fly/run(combined with tervigon giving it the ability to shoot the same turn it runs - see using paroxysm) then it will take the minimum amount of fire while still providing the support in combat with synapse. Then again at this point you could just tervigon Dominate as well.

Leth wrote:
Sorry I was talking about regular warriors -_-. Strikes are hit and miss with me. I think I could make them work and they fit the theme of my army, however points are already tight and I would have to drop something else that makes my army work to take them. It really is rough man. Just remember with the flyrant, he has rending, not ap3 or better so keep that in mind. He needs to do about

In my mind you don't need your synapse all over the place. Just where you are going to hit. Take advantage of precision strikes. Strike one part of his army hard and fast. Let everyone else use their powers, who cares their powers aren't doing anything to you.

Each psycannon(assuming no cover from rending) will put one wound on the hive tyrant. So it is a risk. However if you have the tyrant sit back and then fly/run(combined with tervigon giving it the ability to shoot the same turn it runs - see using paroxysm) then it will take the minimum amount of fire while still providing the support in combat with synapse. Then again at this point you could just tervigon Dominate as well.

My bad for misunderstanding what you were talking about, my head was in the fast synapse to keep up with fast units conversation. When you talk about the flyrant and having rending I'm going to assume you're talking about grey knight psycannons right? Also the argument for hidden synapse with parasite vs grey knights is more in the shadow of the warp aspect, not the synapse action. Also as far as durable fast synapse I don't think we can get better than the parasite because having 20-30 ablative wounds is a pretty big deal.

I've been contemplating Trygon Primes as a response to the new GKs. It's yet more synapse (and thus more survivable against force weapons than regular Trygons, thanks to SitW), as well as more shooting... any thoughts?

Gotta say, the GKs do seem designed to do a number on us -- all right, synapse helps, but I6 marines with force weapons just mess up almost anything we have; our cheap stuff dies before it can strike, our expensive stuff loses its armour save and gets instakilled... :(

As for the I6, nids could do an expensive gaunt mob with AG to at least strike at the same time. Well, it's something

mrwhoop wrote:As for the I6, nids could do an expensive gaunt mob with AG to at least strike at the same time. Well, it's something

I actually do this to contend against GK CC. I take 28 homagaunts in a brood fully upgraded, a 'nid power blob if you will. They skitter around the feet of my Trygon and Trygon Prime, and basically never draw any fire before its too late. I also use a Flyrant n the same build, so that Shadows is where it needs to be, and Broodlords to help with leadership. Its not a perfect plan, but i haven't lost to GK yet.

Leth are you trolling us or are you making warriors work? I have no luck with them. They eather get beaten by a dreadnought in close combat, get blasted by pie plates (your choise from vindicators to marbo) they alle just die quetly in the night.

I know that I have to sacrefy something, but warriors just never do anything for me. (I am of course asuming a meched up range doponent, since that is worst case scenario.)

Now that easter has been around perhaps I can pick up some cheap easter egs and try warriors in drop spores. It could work.

mrwhoop wrote:As for the I6, nids could do an expensive gaunt mob with AG to at least strike at the same time. Well, it's something

because lash whips disappeared from the codex?

Though... the issue isn't lash whips... it is that nothing can really take it that are commonly used. Tyranid prime and tyrant (why anyone would ever want to take a tyrant I am not sure) are the most namely ones. other units with lash whips tend to not live.

Well, there are a few things with that, as you said Prime and tyrant, his tyrant guard, warriors? and venomthrope I think is it. But that won't stop the whole unit. Not enough b2b for that. The more I try to play nids the more it feels incomplete. Like there's some magical way to play that wasn't in earlier editions.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:
Though... the issue isn't lash whips... it is that nothing can really take it that are commonly used. Tyranid prime and tyrant (why anyone would ever want to take a tyrant I am not sure) are the most namely ones. other units with lash whips tend to not live.

I take a tyrant with hive commander when I want to run a reserve-based list. Tyrant guard can get lash whips, though I haven't run them that way. I have run warriors with them.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:

mrwhoop wrote:As for the I6, nids could do an expensive gaunt mob with AG to at least strike at the same time. Well, it's something

because lash whips disappeared from the codex?

Though... the issue isn't lash whips... it is that nothing can really take it that are commonly used. Tyranid prime and tyrant (why anyone would ever want to take a tyrant I am not sure) are the most namely ones. other units with lash whips tend to not live.

Why not take a Tyrant?

wisdomseyes1 wrote:

mrwhoop wrote:As for the I6, nids could do an expensive gaunt mob with AG to at least strike at the same time. Well, it's something

because lash whips disappeared from the codex?

Though... the issue isn't lash whips... it is that nothing can really take it that are commonly used. Tyranid prime and tyrant (why anyone would ever want to take a tyrant I am not sure) are the most namely ones. other units with lash whips tend to not live.

Tyrants are becoming increasingly poor, I'll agree. The issues faced by Primes is speed, they are walking everywhere and 1 or 2 lash whips isn't going to win combats for you.

Well, there are a few things with that, as you said Prime and tyrant, his tyrant guard, warriors? and venomthrope I think is it. But that won't stop the whole unit. Not enough b2b for that. The more I try to play nids the more it feels incomplete. Like there's some magical way to play that wasn't in earlier editions.

Prime; Slow but cheap. You need an HQ, so why not? LW/BS or BS/BS is the question really.
Warriors; LW comes paired with a BS, and costs what, 15 points? Warriors and shrikes are poor units and will not be fielded often.
Venomthropes; Not combat beasts really. Not to mention issues with the Elite choices and the general unpopularity of them.
Tyrant; Crumby expect when....see below.

I take a tyrant with hive commander when I want to run a reserve-based list. Tyrant guard can get lash whips, though I haven't run them that way. I have run warriors with them.

This. A Tyrant is used in a handful of situations.

- Big games when you can afford the guard and want a deathstar-ish unit
- When you are going for max T6 saturation
- When you want to use Hive Commander or Old Adversary as an important core of your army.
- You want a fast synapse flyer

2 or 3 of the above must be met before you consider using a tyrant.

Overall I'm considering shelving my tyrants in games smaller then 2000 points, there just isn't room to fit them in, and they don't contribute enough, consistently, to warrant spending 250+ points on them. GKs were the final nail in the coffin as even my LW/BS Winged tyrant will strike AFTER halberd troops because of the way psyk-out grenades and the LW/BS interact.

As for the I6 troops themselves you will only see the halberds on the odd terminator squad and purifiers. For competitive lists you probably won't even SEE terminators, so that just leaves purifiers. Dealing with them is the real tricks it seems, but SitW + genestealers + FnP from a tervigon (to lessen cleansing flame damage) should see you through the worst of what they can put out with shooting being plan "b". Other then higher initiative/cleansing flame, they are basically just assault marines that cost 50% more points.

If a Harpy charges in at the same time, Halberds are I4. If you hit 'em with Paroxysm (does Aegis stuff prevent all effects of enemy powers or just direct damage stuff?) they need 5's to hit Gaunts.

Actually, I think this is worthy of mentioning in a wider context in the OP. I'd argue that the tactica could do with more general analysis, maybe even before the unit-by-unit consideration; it has to be driven home early that a Tyranid army does not deploy this unit to do this and that unit to do that, but rather it is a single predatory organism with different parts working together to bring down prey.

What, no frag grenades?

One can't help but notice that unlike almost every other race in Warhammer 40,000, the Tyranids do not have factories mass-producing assault grenades to help their shock troops negate cover. However, they are by no means helpless when faced with a capable unit defending a wall or ruin, so long as they make use of unit synergy. The larger creatures and mid-tier weapons can render cover useless to prey - or at least mitigate the damage it helps the prey mete out.

First up, we have Paroxysm. Who cares if you're striking at I1 and have T3 when the prey needs to roll a 5+ to hit you? You can halve Gaunt casualties and increase their accuracy by having a nearby Tyrant or Swarmlord cripple the defenders before you even charge. Very effective against pretty much all Infantry units, especially those lacking psychic support and relying on high WS.

Whilst we're at, we can halve casualties again - assuming we're facing few Power Weapons and suchlike - by a Tervigon casting Catalyst on a unit before it charges. Great against hordes and more common assault units relying on volume of attacks. Also handy against Grey Knights; whilst it's no help against their NFW attacks, it halves the damage inflicted by the Purifier unit's extremely dangerous anti-horde power. No help for dealing with units relying on Power Weapon strikes or similar, though.

Lash Whips are not massively common, and the line unit that can take them - Tyranid Warriors (and Shrikes) - are very fragile in a game full of S8 shooting and powerfists. However, they do make a Tyrant Guard unit extremely dangerous, and if given to a Tyranid Prime (or two) their benefits can be shared by a unit. Charging Carnifexes having I3 and counts-as-assault grenades on the charge isn't much to shout about; however, join them with a Prime or two and have the Primes lead the charge, and you've got a firststriking steamroller. You just cast Catalyst on them, you say? Even better.

One way to eliminate cover that's often overlooked is Pinning. If a unit goes to ground, then units charging them through cover don't suffer penalties. Particularly against low Ld troops, it's possible to have Biovores and various Barbed Strangler carriers force several pinning tests in one shooting phase. A massive entrenched Guard blob can be a scary prospect for a Hormagaunt unit to charge after Catalyst failed. But if they duck and cover, their Commissar cannot execute a Sergeant to get them up off their feet, and they can't issue an Order to Get Back In The Fight! until their turn.

Even against high Ld targets that are difficult to wound with Stranglers and Spore Mines, there's still scope for a large number of hits with enough AP to ignore armour to force a player to voluntarily go to ground. If you're pounding at a Marine unit with Warp Blasts to soften them up for a charge, always gasp at the number of dice you're handing over to take 5+ cover saves and ask your opponent if they want to G2G. This 'poker face' strategy works better if your Fleet assault unit is not close enough to immediately register as a threat, and Runs towards the target after your opponent decides to duck and cover. Hormagaunts work well at this, due to having reliably high Running distance (all you need is one of them within 10" of the target unit and you can probably get in there); you want your opponent to feel secure enough to put his head down and hope that everything works out.

On the subject of forcing the target unit to make bad long-term decisions, Devourers give a better chance than most of forcing a failed break test. If your Outflanking, winged or Fleet units are in position to charge a unit that's only just in cover, sending them running 2D6" away can leave them (1) outside of cover, and (2) having to take a rally check to avoid being wiped out automatically. By no means a guaranteed outcome, and possibly counter-productive if your goal is to create LoS-blocking brawls, but when it works it's a sequence of misfortunes that crush the prey's morale and pushes them closer to an 'I'm going to lose' mindset. (WAAC? - Ed)

If you charge something that's already engaged in combat, you don't get a penalty for charging through cover. There are robust units with low melee effectiveness - Tyrannofexes, Tervigons and Mawlocs (even Ymgarl Genestealers boosting to T5 and deliberately only putting three or so models into the front line) - that can potentially plod into a huge mass of mediocre troops to trade light damage for your turn and theirs. During the enemy turn, your unit is concealed from Plasma Guns and melee specialists (and the entire brawl blocks LoS!); then, come your next turn, a swarm of Gaunts can jump all over them without fear. (A Tyrant with Armoured Shell can sometimes pull this off against Fearless blobs lacking powerful attacks, but it's a bit of a risk with only 4W.) Imperial Guard combined Platoons are the best targets for this, though Shoota Boyz lacking a Power Klaw Nob can also fall prey to the 'reverse tarpit'.

Finally, the Harpy - whilst not a popular unit - has the ability to halve the I of a unit it charges and also has counts-as-assault grenades. Not much good for a couple of S5 attacks, but charge Grey Knights at the same time as Hormagaunts or Genestealers and their Halberds are reduced to I4, giving the melee specialists a fair crack at wiping out the elite Astartes before they get a chance to try for the instant kill.

All of these strategies have to be borne in mind at the army list stage. When picking a melee-oriented unit, spend a moment considering how it synergies with the rest of your army to deal with prey waiting for them in cover.

Okay, I've been reading through the thread but 14 pages are a lot to skim through so I'll just ask. Why give a Tervigon toxin sacs?

Shovan wrote:Okay, I've been reading through the thread but 14 pages are a lot to skim through so I'll just ask. Why give a Tervigon toxin sacs?

Because it upgrades every nearby Termagant to having them for free. A blob of Termagants you didn't pay for, with Poisoned attacks you didn't pay for (and Adrenal Glands you didn't pay for), hits harder than Hormagaunts. Strike first against Marines and wound with 75% of hits, bring down any MC's without 2+ saves or FNP.