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Tau don't give pulse rifles to their human soldiers (or Kroot) becasue they consider them too valuable.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tau don't give pulse rifles to their human soldiers (or Kroot) becasue they consider them too valuable.

In the rules that Andy Hoare wrote, back in the days when GW did neat things for its customers, they were allowed two pulse rifles per unit and the team leader could have a markerlight.

Not true. There was fluff about them giving pulse weaponry to their more "trusted" allies.

The Gue'vasa unit, if you'll remember, had it so that you could employ Tau weaponry as "Special" weapons to represent that fact.

It's been rewritten to imply that the reason Tau don't give their weaponry out anymore is a more practical one. Training and upkeep.
Guardsmen learn how to maintain their Lasguns very early on, and have it drilled into them.
Kroot know how to use their rifles from years of experience.
Why force them to learn a new gun?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tau don't give pulse rifles to their human soldiers (or Kroot) becasue they consider them too valuable.

In the rules that Andy Hoare wrote, back in the days when GW did neat things for its customers, they were allowed two pulse rifles per unit and the team leader could have a markerlight.

I had forgotten about the Markerlight!

Couldn't they also take Fusion Blasters for Sentinels?

Kanluwen wrote:Not true. There was fluff about them giving pulse weaponry to their more "trusted" allies.

The Gue'vasa unit, if you'll remember, had it so that you could employ Tau weaponry as "Special" weapons to represent that fact.

It's been rewritten to imply that the reason Tau don't give their weaponry out anymore is a more practical one. Training and upkeep.
Guardsmen learn how to maintain their Lasguns very early on, and have it drilled into them.
Kroot know how to use their rifles from years of experience.
Why force them to learn a new gun?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tau don't give pulse rifles to their human soldiers (or Kroot) becasue they consider them too valuable.

In the rules that Andy Hoare wrote, back in the days when GW did neat things for its customers, they were allowed two pulse rifles per unit and the team leader could have a markerlight.

I had forgotten about the Markerlight!

Couldn't they also take Fusion Blasters for Sentinels?

I think that may be what they tell their human allies. "oh silly human your so good with that flashlight, just stick with ok. You don't need this big old pulse rifle, you probably wouldn't like".

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I think that may be what they tell their human allies. "oh silly human your so good with that flashlight, just stick with ok. You don't need this big old pulse rifle, you probably wouldn't like".

Bahaha, QFT

If anything, the Tau would modify the lasguns for their new allies. The modified the Kroot rifles to fire a charged shot instead of using chemical propellant and they modified Vespid neutorn blasters to better utilize their crystals (page 29, tau codex).

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I ont think any of the Tau support understands what Im saying. The lasgun is dirt cheap and simple, the pulse rifle is better and more complicated in the way it works. I have read this on the lexicanum!
Give a Tau engineer the bluprints to a lasgun and im sure it would make it quicker than it does a pulse rifle. (well maybe not at first it would have to know the human parts.)

The lasgun is incredibly complex, owing to the power cell design.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tau don't give pulse rifles to their human soldiers (or Kroot) becasue they consider them too valuable.

Oh really?





Have you ever read the Tau Codex or been in a store that sells Tau miniatures?

My friend who played tau would always joke about tau 'safe plasma', 'tau tested, mother approved'

So what is the lasguns complexity compared to other 40k weapons?

Kroothawk wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tau don't give pulse rifles to their human soldiers (or Kroot) becasue they consider them too valuable.

Oh really?





Have you ever read the Tau Codex or been in a store that sells Tau miniatures?

Yes and the occasional human gets one too. Let me clarify: They're not standard issue.

With Kroot its complicated: Kroot prefer they're Kroot rifle because its most likely more rugged which serves their purposes of crawling through muck and whatnot. Also The Kroot Rifle is made by Kroot for Kroot. If The pulse rifle was their standard arm they would be dependant on the Tau for arms. So although they are part of the Tau Empire they still feel very independant in their hearts. As for the upgrades that add more oomph course they'll take some of that.

With humans its just that they don't trust them. From the Tau perspective Humans are already formidable warriors with a measly lasgun. They don't want milions of humans armed with Tau gear inside their own territory and I can't blame them.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes and the occasional human gets one too. Let me clarify: They're not standard issue.

Of course they're not.

With Kroot its complicated: Kroot prefer they're Kroot rifle because its most likely more rugged which serves their purposes of crawling through muck and whatnot. Also The Kroot Rifle is made by Kroot for Kroot. If The pulse rifle was their standard arm they would be dependant on the Tau for arms. So although they are part of the Tau Empire they still feel very independant in their hearts. As for the upgrades that add more oomph course they'll take some of that.

Well, and of course the fact that a pulse rifle is a far more complex piece of equipment that could theoretically be easier to detect(what with it having an energy discharge and whatnot), along with it not likely being a suitable weapon for a race that alters itself as it sees fit by devouring genetic data.
A solid slug will leave genetic material available to them. Flashfrying it with a plasma burst won't.

With humans its just that they don't trust them. From the Tau perspective Humans are already formidable warriors with a measly lasgun. They don't want milions of humans armed with Tau gear inside their own territory and I can't blame them.

Bzzt! Wrong again!

Taros campaign hinted at the Tau beginning to experiment with actually establishing full regiments of former Guard and human volunteers trained by those Guard.
The kicker?
Those humans were given Earth Caste produced pulse rifles/carbines and armor on par with what the Fire Warriors have.

Actually we don't use pulse rifles more widely, because they suck in close combat and at cutting the food afterwards

But generally, people misunderstand the Tau Empire. The Tau inhabited planets are not huge Forge Worlds able to equip the whole Eastern Fringe. The Tau Empire basically is a union of mostly independent planets working together in trade, science and military issues. The military structure and equipment of Xeno/human planets is mostly kept. Tau are known to improve technology once in a while (e.g. Kroot rifle), but they don't have the manpower to restructure all armies in their sector (and they don't want to anyway). And most technology is specifically tailored to Tau physiology (and in Tau language) and needs basic technological understanding, which many cultures lack: No use to lend a Stealth Bomber to a Yanomami tribe.

That said, nobody trusts the loyalty of humans (esp those humans who have just changed sides), not even Tau or humans.

agnosto wrote:If anything, the Tau would modify the lasguns for their new allies. The modified the Kroot rifles to fire a charged shot instead of using chemical propellant and they modified Vespid neutron blasters to better utilize their crystals (page 29, tau codex).

So Tau want guard with lascannons instead of lasguns?
IMO. Tau see the lasgun as weird variant of markerlights and may "improve" them to non-violent...

Kilkrazy wrote:The lasgun is incredibly complex, owing to the power cell design.

Complex?

MunitorumManual / page 60-61 lasgun :
.....
A lasgun is easy to manufacture and maintain, and very reliable even under the toughest battlefield conditions.
......
The lasgun is powered by rechargable powerpacks, but carries a residual supply and can be rechargesd using its own solar converters.
When in base, there will be designated power chargers, which may be used to recharge each guardsmens power packs and its his responsibility to ensure that he keeps a full load as possible at all times.
...
Used conservatively, a laser powerpack will last for many shots ( 150 ) and can be recharged from a standard power source or by exposing its thermal cells
to heat or light.

Somehow, the organization which supplies ammo and replaces lost or damaged weapons disagrees.

Kroothawk wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Tau don't give pulse rifles to their human soldiers (or Kroot) because they consider them too valuable.

Oh really?
Have you ever read the Tau Codex or been in a store that sells Tau miniatures?

Really.
The shaper is the only Kroot with access to Tau and Imperial weapons.
Go get a box of basic kroot and put those not supplied by GW pulse rifles on.
Oh wait, thats not legal wargear....
Maybe the kroot don't get pulse rifles since Tau consider them not as trusted allies ( per codex Tau Empire ).?
The meatshields tend to get the expendable stuff and Kroot seem to have the role of ablative wounds.

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes and the occasional human gets one too. Let me clarify: They're not standard issue.

Of course they're not.

With Kroot its complicated: Kroot prefer they're Kroot rifle because its most likely more rugged which serves their purposes of crawling through muck and whatnot. Also The Kroot Rifle is made by Kroot for Kroot. If The pulse rifle was their standard arm they would be dependant on the Tau for arms. So although they are part of the Tau Empire they still feel very independant in their hearts. As for the upgrades that add more oomph course they'll take some of that.

Well, and of course the fact that a pulse rifle is a far more complex piece of equipment that could theoretically be easier to detect(what with it having an energy discharge and whatnot), along with it not likely being a suitable weapon for a race that alters itself as it sees fit by devouring genetic data.
A solid slug will leave genetic material available to them. Flashfrying it with a plasma burst won't.

With humans its just that they don't trust them. From the Tau perspective Humans are already formidable warriors with a measly lasgun. They don't want milions of humans armed with Tau gear inside their own territory and I can't blame them.

Bzzt! Wrong again!

Taros campaign hinted at the Tau beginning to experiment with actually establishing full regiments of former Guard and human volunteers trained by those Guard.
The kicker?
Those humans were given Earth Caste produced pulse rifles/carbines and armor on par with what the Fire Warriors have.

What page is this hint again?

Look through the book yourself.

I'd also like to point out that within Taros, a planet that literally just defected to the Tau Empire, there were Gue'vasa units that assaulted the water plant that the Elysians captured.
Those Gue'vasa? They weren't armed with lasguns and flak vests. They had Fire Warrior grade equipment.

Has this thread really degraded into some bickering over the advanced-ness of lasguns vs pulse rifles, and the ability to produce them?

You might be able to throw more little rocks than larger ones, but the larger rocks do more damage. Oh and they can be guided.

You either dislike tau, you like them, or you don't care either way. If your having trouble coming up with reason why for any of the above, then just stop trying.

I swear most of the anti tau in this thread is just verbatim from the uplifting handbook.

IvanTih wrote:You know what is "so utterly ridiculous as to not merely strain credibility, but throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then put it through the shredder for good measure"? That a civilization can go from cavemen to matching the elder species of 40k in a mere six thousand years. Here's a hint, it took humans tens of millenia to reach this point.

We went from stone age to space flight in 6000 years. (4000BC was still Neolithic)

Scott-S6 wrote:

IvanTih wrote:You know what is "so utterly ridiculous as to not merely strain credibility, but throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then put it through the shredder for good measure"? That a civilization can go from cavemen to matching the elder species of 40k in a mere six thousand years. Here's a hint, it took humans tens of millenia to reach this point.

We went from stone age to space flight in 6000 years. (4000BC was still Neolithic)

Plus, it's always been hinted at that some "greater power" caused the Warp Storms that isolated T'au from the rest of the galaxy. And also it's been hinted at that those Warp Storms also y'know...caused time to flow faster for the Tau within the storm.

Voila! You get faster advancements, within a smaller time frame.

Even without that, if just one or two of the really big discoveries came earlier it could have sped our development up significantly.

Tau have only developed a little faster than we did.

Plus, the "mastered primitive weapons and discovered fire" doesn't have to mean cavemen. If we allow for a little bit of race snobbery that could describe us at 1000BC pretty readily.

juraigamer wrote:Has this thread really degraded into some bickering over the advanced-ness of lasguns vs pulse rifles, and the ability to produce them?

You might be able to throw more little rocks than larger ones, but the larger rocks do more damage. Oh and they can be guided.

You either dislike tau, you like them, or you don't care either way. If your having trouble coming up with reason why for any of the above, then just stop trying.

I swear most of the anti tau in this thread is just verbatim from the uplifting handbook.

Was this thread ever anything else? We were always talking about tau TECH, and how fast they obtained it.

juraigamer wrote:Has this thread really degraded into some bickering over the advanced-ness of lasguns vs pulse rifles, and the ability to produce them?

You might be able to throw more little rocks than larger ones, but the larger rocks do more damage. Oh and they can be guided.

You either dislike tau, you like them, or you don't care either way. If your having trouble coming up with reason why for any of the above, then just stop trying.

I swear most of the anti tau in this thread is just verbatim from the uplifting handbook.

Argh I thought I summed up this thread a while ago... I guess Warboss was right

Anti tau as well as tau fanboys are both to blame for the continuation of this thread.

Yes I agree that larger rocks do more damage, and guiding them is a possibility, but honestly, can you concentrate on guiding a giant rock when you have millions of rocks being thrown at you? Have you heard of stoning? Lots and lots of rocks add up. And doing more damage doesn't necessarily mean killing them all, as the IG vastly outnumbers the Tau (I think someone's gonna kill me for not citing this... ).

Much like the russians vs the germans in WWII (or was it WWI?)
The ruskies only had enough rifles to supply one per two people, and each was given their own magazine. Through the loss of millions of lives, they pushed the germans back, even when the germans were better equipped with weaponary and the like. (although winter would have helped..)


On a side note, do tau have exterminatus weapons?

You are right, it was WW2. You are also correct about the other stuff to. You cant cite comman sense so dont sweat it lol.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:So what is the lasguns complexity compared to other 40k weapons?

It is the battery.

It contains parts that let it recharge from any energy source including heat and light. This means it must hold something that lets it have an internal heat gradient, perhaps a black hole or a channel into hyperspace. All kinds of wiring and control mechanisms, as well, all solid state.

Does it have to be as complicated as a black hole? We have stuff today that charge from sunlight....

The battery also charges from heat, for example by being put in a fire. This is done by making use of the temperature differential between two different zones.

The only way to create a useable differential in the battery is to create a cold region inside it, insulated from the hot surface. This cold region will heat up while generating energy, so in order for it to continue working, the incoming heat needs to be discharged somewhere. It can't be discharged to the surface, as thay is already hot, so it must be compressed into a black hole, or sent into hyperspace or some other means of compressing and discharging heat unknown to modern physics.

I'm not saying that 40K Handwavium technology can't create such a device, because obviously it can, just that it is a very complex thing to do.

I assume that lasgun batteries are stamped out by a Standard Template Construct which no-one understands any longer, but as long as it keeps working, the IG are all right.

I thought one of the main storyline hooks for the Tau was whether or not some force was behind the creation of the Ethereal caste and the increased speed at which they advanced.

My final words on this subjects that IOM steamrolls Tau(points to Sabbath's World Crusade).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Deathwatch Space Marine in the Last chancers novel casually walked through the combined firepower of 3 Crisis Suits (wrecked his armor quite a bit, but he was a-ok) and proceeded to brutally and systematically dismantle said suits. The suits had 3 pulse cannons, a flamer and two weapon systems I can´t remember between them.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

On a side note, do tau have exterminatus weapons?

Never heard of any, besides it's not the tau's fighting style to just wipe things out like that.

IvanTih wrote:My final words on this subjects that IOM steamrolls Tau(points to Sabbath's World Crusade).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Deathwatch Space Marine in the Last chancers novel casually walked through the combined firepower of 3 Crisis Suits (wrecked his armor quite a bit, but he was a-ok) and proceeded to brutally and systematically dismantle said suits. The suits had 3 pulse cannons, a flamer and two weapon systems I can´t remember between them.

Interesting since there's not such thing as a "pulse cannon". If any of them had plasma cannons, he would have been toast...them being AP2 and rapid fire and all....

In the end books and fluff don't have anything to do with game mechanics. You were reading a book about marines so of course the marines are unkillable agents of destruction. Read a book about eldar and you'll read about a farseer wiping out a whole chapter of marines or some other nonsense.

Meh. this topic has become unfun.

Carry on.