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Even a full assault squad, Incinerators are redundant when you have Cleansing Flame.

The loadout hasn't changed is the basic answer. 1 hammer, 2-4 psycannons, and the rest with Halberds.

I'd ignore the Stave at all costs. Just so pricey on an already pricey unit. Always MAX out Psycannons though, they are simply the best weapon platform in the entire game. Nothing else in the game does so well against EVERYTHING (AP2 on rends, ability to pen AV14, good against MCs/Hordes/TEQ/MEQ). I like taking a few incinerators on a Purgation squad. 2x Incinerators will simply eat up Xenos armies, plus they are free so you don't feel too bad about them dying.

Anyway, I have been messing around with new GK builds for 6th (NOVA especially) and have personally come to the conclusion that SWs make excellent allies. Strike Squads seem really bland to me (too few attacks, Warp Quake isn't that useful) and they are still 20 Pts a pop. GH's allow me to fill out my troops with some cheap models that are still well-rounded. The cost efficiency of the GH has allowed me to up my Marine count to 60 in a 2k list, this also includes 8 rhino hulls and a Aegis with Quadgun.

What allies have others found success with?

Grey Templar wrote:What?

He's still the go-to guy when s*** needs to die, now! Not to mention he can still pick out special and heavy weapons.

The only thing that happened is some vehicles are easier to kill. But you can't one shot vehicles as easy now, something he still does amazingly.

And by vehicles being easier to kill something else happened; people stopped taking so many of them. They are no longer a counter you need him for. Most importantly, cover was reduced, so unless he can get a ruin he is going to get flattened quick. Picking out special weapons and all that is great, but with the way wound allocation works now there are several ways of doing that.

Quite simply, it's not worth paying 145pts for a model that will take out a 40pts Rhino or a special weapon, and then die. The army already suffers now from expensive model syndrome without adding an unnecessary addition IMO.

sudojoe wrote:It's not just wargear destruction actully as it only destroys invul saves.

I'm well aware; I was speaking in short-hand refering to the particular wargear being spoken about in the post I quoted; perhaps confusing though, I apologise.

so since pallies are just so good at surviving, i have been loading them

4x falchions w/psycannos
2x halberds wstormbolters
2x hammers w/stormbolters
sword w/stormbolter
banner w/narthcium

i've been combat squading them and making the draigostar (obvious w/ draigo) the 4xfalchions and apothecary banner bearer... and if i have enough pts i try to get a libby in w/ that deathstar and deploy them dead smack in the middle of the battle and march forward..... i have been having good success so far... especially if i get the libby psychic support like prescience, forbodding, forewarning, and misfortune.... so far, i've had no problems w/ assault termies, bc i just seem to unload some many wounds that they fail 2-3, and (by some unlucky rolling sometimes) 4 saves... against DE, sure they attack first, but the incubi power weapon debuff and my FnP and LoS allocation makes my deathstar more survivable.... and then when its my turn, their cleaned out... same goes for harlies too... so...

I wanted to know if anyone else have been trying this....

or am i've been getting lucky w/ my little deathstar unit....??? oh yeah, if points allowing, i MC my falchions and psycanons just to make sure they mow down everything coming at them....

Seems about right to me; the 4 Falchion dudes are putting out 20 attacks on the charge, then there's Draigo however many and the Apothecary. Should be about 2-3 dead with a Hammerhand or two. Problem is then he swings back in and kills a Paladin or two with Thunder Hammers, and either stays, or runs but you can't catch him over wearing TDA.

Still a potent unit, scary as hell, but a lot of points.

I'd throw a stave in any Paladinstar. It's incredibly useful for challenging enemy fists and tying up ICs.

hrm... The allocated/and re-allocated makes me wonder about the vindicare.

the armor breaks once you allocate a wound to a model

The wound then gets re-allocated. Doesn't that imply that the first part of the rule was fullfilled in that it was allocated at one point or another to the unit?

Re-allocating it moves it, but wouldn't change that it was allocated to something in the first place.

I'm currently experimenting with staffs on non-techmarine and non-librarians atm. I know some people like JY2 swears by at least 1-2 staffs in his MSU purifiers so probably some solid ground for debate there. However if you already have it on an attached liby or techmarine for example, may not be applicable anymore. I have yet to find the points to field falchions, will have to proxy that in one of these days to see how it goes

Anyways, just found out I messed up the POTMS thing on the front plage and I'll go fix it. Apparently the blood angel's codex says the storm raven can still shoot even if it flat-out in contradiction to the rule book. Land raiders however are still stuck not shooting if they moved flat out apparently. The GK codex however, doesn't say this but I think most can agree to the above but what do you all think?

If it re-allocates, it's not allocated the first miniature, so, you don't do anything to the first. As least, not being TFG and a rule screwer, this is how I see it.

DakotaBlue wrote:If it re-allocates, it's not allocated the first miniature, so, you don't do anything to the first. As least, not being TFG and a rule screwer, this is how I see it.

ya, you're probably right, wishful thinking anyway

Something cannot be re-allocated unless it was allocated in the first place; you got it right the first time sudojoe.

So, for allocated wounds, like the precision shot ones, you only can re-allocate it after trying to save it with the allocated one, and making LoS after?

It would make sense rule-wise, but not reality-wise. I mean, "Look out, sir! the shot got into your heart, I'll get it into mine instead!"

I used a draigowing last night in a 1500 point game, I think its still very viable. Crusade and The Scouring being the only missions that pose more stress on the build. We played crusade last night and I combat squaded a strike squad, but didn't combat squad the paladins and it almost cost me the game if it wasn't for extra turns giving me the time to blast a squad off an objective. I used Coteaz in the squad had Divine Primaris power, and Misfortune... my opponent rage faced the whole game.

hrm.. I took the vindicare shield breaker question to YMDC and we're not really comming up with anything that looks like a consensus. Maybe just roll off against eachother?

either break what you shot at first, or alternate is it breaks both, or alternatively just whoever got LOS'ed to. Really needs a FAQ as there does not appear to be a way to really resolve it.

See discussion here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/466897.page

If works as prior, *meaning you break who you want then LoS the wound* could be a good counter for the vect fortune bomb, but still a bit lacking vs fateweaver terminators and definately won't be challenging tally nurgles and of course no use vs flier spam

So, is fighting Eldar really just totally muzzling your capability to cast any psychic powers?

Do you guys think they are ever going to put a range on Runes of Warding?

Quick question...

I'm running a GK list, but atm I have only got 10 Paladins and Draigo for Troops choices.

Should I go for more Paladins or should I include something else like GKT or include Crowe and go for Purifiers in the troops slots?

I don't want to run all Paladins as I don't think it's going to be as effective as a hybrid list.

Any comments would be helpful.

Thanks.

daedalus-templarius wrote:So, is fighting Eldar really just totally muzzling your capability to cast any psychic powers?

Do you guys think they are ever going to put a range on Runes of Warding?

Its really annoying for sure.

They will nerf it eventually. Probably either give it a 24" range or only make it effect enemy psychic powers that target a friendly Eldar unit. The warding in the name implies it just protects you, not screw the enemy over.

Puscifer wrote:Quick question...

I'm running a GK list, but atm I have only got 10 Paladins and Draigo for Troops choices.

Should I go for more Paladins or should I include something else like GKT or include Crowe and go for Purifiers in the troops slots?

I don't want to run all Paladins as I don't think it's going to be as effective as a hybrid list.

Any comments would be helpful.

Thanks.

The best support is Coteaz and inquisitorial weakling units, possibly in Razorbacks or Chimeras, possibly with Aegis line. Purifiers can be done but Crowe is kind of expensive for only one or two units so doesn't really go well with paladins I find.

Personally i run just paladins as troops okay at 1500 and pretty well at 2000. But to my mind Coteaz is the best support character now anyway and weakling squads allow you quite a lot of scoring units (I don't use them as I despise them, but functionally they're great).

Grey Templar wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:So, is fighting Eldar really just totally muzzling your capability to cast any psychic powers?

Do you guys think they are ever going to put a range on Runes of Warding?

Its really annoying for sure.

They will nerf it eventually. Probably either give it a 24" range or only make it effect enemy psychic powers that target a friendly Eldar unit. The warding in the name implies it just protects you, not screw the enemy over.

I certainly hope so.

Its much more powerful now that you don't get saves of any sort vs perils. Kinda kills the whole aspect of all those new fancy psyker powers if you play against an Eldar often.


Going to try and take 2 DKs next time, I'm hoping with more target saturation they won't get blown up so fast. How do you all generally deploy them? From reserves or just on the table? Also, since you can still attack with your 'fists' with a sword equipped, how many attacks does the DK get? Sword is a bit overpriced, but being able to reroll ALL of your hits and wounds at S10 seems pretty significant.

A DK with Sword gets 4 base attacks and 5 on the charge(3 base +1 for 2 CCWs +1 for charging)

I just deploy them on the table. They can get cover much easier now and their 2+ save is much better.

I use them to assassinate enemy units. Challange any PFs or Axes away to nothingness and eat the squad.


They are also excellent as Scoring units. Use a GM for this, or if playing Big Guns Never Tire, and they can be really good at taking enemy objectives.

Grey Templar wrote:A DK with Sword gets 4 base attacks and 5 on the charge(3 base +1 for 2 CCWs +1 for charging)

I just deploy them on the table. They can get cover much easier now and their 2+ save is much better.

I use them to assassinate enemy units. Challange any PFs or Axes away to nothingness and eat the squad.


They are also excellent as Scoring units. Use a GM for this, or if playing Big Guns Never Tire, and they can be really good at taking enemy objectives.

Good to hear all of that, but why do they get cover much easier now exactly?

I think i was actually looking in the rules for monstrous creature cover saves the other day and couldn't find anything specifically. Do they use the same rules as vehicles or something?

A DK with just fists still gets 4 attacks normally, doesn't he?

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:A DK with Sword gets 4 base attacks and 5 on the charge(3 base +1 for 2 CCWs +1 for charging)

I just deploy them on the table. They can get cover much easier now and their 2+ save is much better.

I use them to assassinate enemy units. Challange any PFs or Axes away to nothingness and eat the squad.


They are also excellent as Scoring units. Use a GM for this, or if playing Big Guns Never Tire, and they can be really good at taking enemy objectives.

Good to hear all of that, but why do they get cover much easier now exactly?

I think i was actually looking in the rules for monstrous creature cover saves the other day and couldn't find anything specifically. Do they use the same rules as vehicles or something?

A DK with just fists still gets 4 attacks normally, doesn't he?

They get cover just like any other model. 25% obscurity is all thats needed. The restriction they had last edition was removed(they could only get cover from being 50% obscured or something)

And yeah, with Fists you still get 4 attacks normally.

Would Solodins work as objective grabbers?

Puscifer wrote:Would Solodins work as objective grabbers?

They can do. I use one or two depending on my list.

Grey Templar wrote:

They get cover just like any other model. 25% obscurity is all thats needed. The restriction they had last edition was removed(they could only get cover from being 50% obscured or something)

And yeah, with Fists you still get 4 attacks normally.

Awesome! I really enjoy using them, I just need to get better at using them I think. I always tend to throw them in suicide missions, and maybe I need to treat them a bit better.

For my game on Saturday, I think I will have...
Draigo
10 Paladin-star, fully kitted
2 Paladins for objective grab and hold
Psyrifle dread
2x Dreadknights with teleporter and incinerator

I'll be fighting an eldar, otherwise I'd drop one of the paladins from the 2 man squad, un-mastercraft the Psycannons, and take Coteaz.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

They get cover just like any other model. 25% obscurity is all thats needed. The restriction they had last edition was removed(they could only get cover from being 50% obscured or something)

And yeah, with Fists you still get 4 attacks normally.

Awesome! I really enjoy using them, I just need to get better at using them I think. I always tend to throw them in suicide missions, and maybe I need to treat them a bit better.

For my game on Saturday, I think I will have...
Draigo
10 Paladin-star, fully kitted
2 Paladins for objective grab and hold
Psyrifle dread
2x Dreadknights with teleporter and incinerator

I'll be fighting an eldar, otherwise I'd drop one of the paladins from the 2 man squad, un-mastercraft the Psycannons, and take Coteaz.

I like that list.

1.5k or 2k?

Puscifer wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

They get cover just like any other model. 25% obscurity is all thats needed. The restriction they had last edition was removed(they could only get cover from being 50% obscured or something)

And yeah, with Fists you still get 4 attacks normally.

Awesome! I really enjoy using them, I just need to get better at using them I think. I always tend to throw them in suicide missions, and maybe I need to treat them a bit better.

For my game on Saturday, I think I will have...
Draigo
10 Paladin-star, fully kitted
2 Paladins for objective grab and hold
Psyrifle dread
2x Dreadknights with teleporter and incinerator

I'll be fighting an eldar, otherwise I'd drop one of the paladins from the 2 man squad, un-mastercraft the Psycannons, and take Coteaz.

I like that list.

1.5k or 2k?

Right at 1650

Removing a paladin, master-crafts and adding Coteaz would put it pretty close(still to 1650), but would maybe have to shuffle a few more things. Remove banner, etc, something like that.

Or just tell my friends to add a few more points

Yeah, thats an odd point level.

1500, 1750, 1850, 2k, 2500. Those are fairly normal point values.

1850s only on there because its common in Europe and has spread for some unknown reason. Otherwise, it would be nice clean incriments of 250 or 500.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, thats an odd point level.

1500, 1750, 1850, 2k, 2500. Those are fairly normal point values.

1850s only on there because its common in Europe and has spread for some unknown reason. Otherwise, it would be nice clean incriments of 250 or 500.

Country folk with country ways

I;m trying to bulk out my GK army while I build my Iron Hands.

Just needing advice on Paladin Armies.

I agree, I'd rather do 1750 or 1850, but the guys I usually play with (well, a couple of them) have a hard time coming up with those point levels. I have no problem, haha. Also, lower point levels usually mean more games, although they rarely want to play more than 1

1750 would be super easy, just add Coteaz, un-mastercraft psycannons, then you'd have points to put a sword on one of the DKs or something.