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Grey Templar wrote:What?

He's still the go-to guy when s*** needs to die, now! Not to mention he can still pick out special and heavy weapons.

The only thing that happened is some vehicles are easier to kill. But you can't one shot vehicles as easy now, something he still does amazingly.

Completely agree. He is still needed to reliably take out AV14 and in particular all the new buildings (getting that "7" on the damage chart is lovely!), not to mention the importance of Dead Shot in taking out 6ed unit keystone models. In addition I hear the cheese to beat, if we set aside the flier cheese, is Vect and harlies with a fortune-ing farseer (2++ rerollable save), which arguably the Vindicare's Shield-Breaker has a chance of destroying (though LoS may still apply).

So are the basic GKT any good for troops choices when used in conjunction with Paladins?

Puscifer wrote:So are the basic GKT any good for troops choices when used in conjunction with Paladins?

I think they're okay, though I do think henchmen are probably the better competitive option to support Paladins for a number of reasons (mainly to do with cheaper cost and the possibility of a 3 plasma cannon squad).

But a 10 man strike squad with 2 psycannon, psybolts and possibly a razorback (various upgrades can work well depending on how you feel and available points) to give some mobility to a combat squad isn't a bad option if it can be squeezed in.

I've come around on the Psybolter razorbacks lately, 3 twinlinked str 6 shots can do work, and there is usually something worth shooting. I'm very curious about dreadknights though, I face vindicators often my buddy and I face each other very often probably 3 or 4 times a week. How well do you all think they preform to move 12" or 30" and heavy incinerate the side/back armor of vindi's or flaming a long fangs pack. I feel when I face the vindi's I can't move my army forward without getting pie plated, so paladins because a useless force option to me. Losing 6 or so TEQs also turn me into a sad panda.

Only one thing I would use against Vindicators...

Long Range Firepower.

They are the bane of our entire army and should be the No 1 Priority target.

Vindicare, Stormraven and Psyflemen Dreads are good here.

For purifier spam players I had a thought last night. I know we all kinda sigh at taking Crowe and trying to figure out what to do with him so, what if you take a Aegis Defense Line and have him man the guns?

Dreadnoughts are okay but can't really be relied upon vs Vindicators. The Vindicare and Stormravens are excellent, however, and it should be possible to keep your paladins out of range/sight until turn two when the ravens should be in via Psychic Communion.

But I agree, Vindicators, especially Fast Vindicators need taken out quickly.

l0k1 wrote:For purifier spam players I had a thought last night. I know we all kinda sigh at taking Crowe and trying to figure out what to do with him so, what if you take a Aegis Defense Line and have him man the guns?

I was writing my list for next week and was looking at this as well. My first thought was a soloadin on a gun, but Crowe works as well. Only concern is that he is somewhat exposed. I usually have him in a razorback currently.

Yeah that has usually been my tactic. Flank side armor with dreads, storm raven T2 comes in and handles one. I have hunker down and wait until I can move. I just rage when I can't get at least 1 killed T1. He usually plays 2, sometimes 3 with allies... I was just thinking of using knights to shunt up and demolish one ASAP.

Melchiour wrote:

l0k1 wrote:For purifier spam players I had a thought last night. I know we all kinda sigh at taking Crowe and trying to figure out what to do with him so, what if you take a Aegis Defense Line and have him man the guns?

I was writing my list for next week and was looking at this as well. My first thought was a soloadin on a gun, but Crowe works as well. Only concern is that he is somewhat exposed. I usually have him in a razorback currently.

That is a concern, but with objective placements you should be able to put an objective within 24 inches of him then have the unit camping that objective shoot anything that tries to mess with him also put your Psyriflemen Dreads behind the defense line with him. Also Crowe has a 2+/+4 where a Paladin is 2+/5+ unless you give him a sword or staff and they both have 2 wounds and if something assaults him you can just keep rerolling your saves to tar pit them. It's a thought and tactically speaking its not without flaws but it seems more useful than having him hump the rear end of a rhino all day or having him cowering inside a Razorback.

l0k1 wrote:

Melchiour wrote:

l0k1 wrote:For purifier spam players I had a thought last night. I know we all kinda sigh at taking Crowe and trying to figure out what to do with him so, what if you take a Aegis Defense Line and have him man the guns?

I was writing my list for next week and was looking at this as well. My first thought was a soloadin on a gun, but Crowe works as well. Only concern is that he is somewhat exposed. I usually have him in a razorback currently.

That is a concern, but with objective placements you should be able to put an objective within 24 inches of him then have the unit camping that objective shoot anything that tries to mess with him also put your Psyriflemen Dreads behind the defense line with him. Also Crowe has a 2+/+4 where a Paladin is 2+/5+ unless you give him a sword or staff and they both have 2 wounds and if something assaults him you can just keep rerolling your saves to tar pit them. It's a thought and tactically speaking its not without flaws but it seems more useful than having him hump the rear end of a rhino all day or having him cowering inside a Razorback.

He is just one model. He will have cover from the aegis line and/or gun itself.

And hey, its not like we Purifier players have ever expected him to live very long.

Tbh, that is the greatest use for Crowe.

Form up a firebase with Crowe on the turret, a Psyfleman or two and possibly some infantry.

On the note of Henchmen, are they really worth it? They seem lackluster to me as they need a transport.

Not only that, I don't much care for them as the models are Hella expensive.

Coteaz, 3 servitors with plasma cannon and half a dozen or so weaklings for ablative wounds costs little more than Crowe (25 points or so) and scores to boot, as well as packing pretty hefty S7 AP2 firepower (and if Coteaz has prescience, that's even better). Add to that that you can buy a couple of cheap-ish sqads and some chimeras or razorbacks for mid or long range firepower, and they're a good option for backing a 10 man paladin unit.

Personally I don't use them but to my mind they're easily the best support option for paladins.

Ive only played three games with GK (Purifiers). I have 50 guys with 20 Psycannons. 3 Lazerbacks a Vindicare and Crowe.

IG continue to whoop me. No other army but that one. Seems no matter what I do, I can't beat 'em. Gah! I've gotten close but the battle of attrition is just not one I can easily win. The colossus is just stupid awesome.

Seriously thinking that I need a Grandmaster for the added mobility he brings. He's just so many points though, just to be able to scout/outflank a unit... But yet so enticing...

Grey Templar wrote:

l0k1 wrote:

Melchiour wrote:

l0k1 wrote:For purifier spam players I had a thought last night. I know we all kinda sigh at taking Crowe and trying to figure out what to do with him so, what if you take a Aegis Defense Line and have him man the guns?

I was writing my list for next week and was looking at this as well. My first thought was a soloadin on a gun, but Crowe works as well. Only concern is that he is somewhat exposed. I usually have him in a razorback currently.

That is a concern, but with objective placements you should be able to put an objective within 24 inches of him then have the unit camping that objective shoot anything that tries to mess with him also put your Psyriflemen Dreads behind the defense line with him. Also Crowe has a 2+/+4 where a Paladin is 2+/5+ unless you give him a sword or staff and they both have 2 wounds and if something assaults him you can just keep rerolling your saves to tar pit them. It's a thought and tactically speaking its not without flaws but it seems more useful than having him hump the rear end of a rhino all day or having him cowering inside a Razorback.

He is just one model. He will have cover from the aegis line and/or gun itself.

And hey, its not like we Purifier players have ever expected him to live very long.

Correct, but he is also worth a victory point so worth giving him protection.

I would refrain from surrounding him with dreads simply because it would be a large target for templates.


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Puscifer wrote:Tbh, that is the greatest use for Crowe.

Form up a firebase with Crowe on the turret, a Psyfleman or two and possibly some infantry.

On the note of Henchmen, are they really worth it? They seem lackluster to me as they need a transport.

Not only that, I don't much care for them as the models are Hella expensive.

Henchmen are pretty nice, haven't used them yet, but they are dirt cheap, can take weapons that the rest of the army can't, and with coteaz they can score. Stick 3 plasma gun Henchmen in a chimera with some bolter guys and you can camp the objective, fire up to 5 weapons out of the hatches and keep moving. The other nice thing is you can basically customize them to take on whatever you want.

The actual models are expensive, most people just used guardsmen with the proper weapons. It's much cheaper and just as effective.

What are we equipping our Justicars with? I have been giving my strike squad justies the halberd. BUT I feel like it might be a waste of points if we go up against CC units. Like my last game:

strike squad of 5 with Justie & halberd. Charged by Howling Banshee squad with the howling banshee phoenix lord. I challenged the Phoenix Lord so she wouldn't kill my whole squad, only my Justicar and she ate him alive. The winner of the day was a lowly marine who caused a wound to the Phoenix Lord (after failing an invuln save) and got his force weapon off to ID the crazy lady.

So I guess, are the 10 point for the hammer, or 5 points worth it on our normal squads?

Hey guys,

new to the forum but not new to GKs. I have been playing them since they sucked (cough daemon hunters cough).

Here are some of my thoughts and what I have had great success with in my very competitive area.

Coteaz is always worth it. I have been including him in every single game I play since he has a DH, the ability to take 2 divination spells, still retains hammer hand, can shoot at everything that deepstrikes near him, re-rolls the initiative, and makes henchmen scoring. Honestly I don't see why every list doesn't include him.

If you are running a Draigo wing style list then a banner is a must in this psychic environment with Eldar and Tyranids. Warding staves are also now a must in this unit to tank chalenges. Paladins should always have a divination character with them. It makes them an absolutely monster unit.

Every 10 man terminator/paladin unit needs to have 2-3 hammers, a stave, and a banner. Everything else is your choice and of course the obligatory psycannons.

Due to always taking Coteaz, I have been bringing a 6man psyker unit with 3 stormbolter henchman in a rhino. They either are amazing or all their heads explode but they are often overlooked. They are so cheap and a scoring unit to boot and if the psykers die, everyone forgets about the 3 scoring storm bolter henchmen.

Dreadknights=Awesome in terminator heavy lists. They provide amazing 1st turn threat range and act as huge bullet magnets. This allows your units to cross the field taking very little fire.

Every important unit should be lead from the front by an independent character with a 2+ armor save. With a 2+ and then LOS roll of 2+, especially with paladins, it is too good not do this.

I have found storm ravens useful in shooting down other flyers and as a gun boat, but every time I have used it as a transport it has failed. Honestly, a unit of paladins or terminators with a divination character can shoot down flyers just as well. But I continue to use it only at high point cost matches.

On the vindicare debate, I have found him to be totally useless know with LOS allocation. Sure he is good at killing vehicles but he will die before earning his points back and with less vehicles present...there are better options for 145 pts.

I have also found in Draigo lists that dropping units of 2 paladins onto objectives is very cost effective. I usually equip them with sword and hammer and when needed, they still kill or tie up much more expensive units.

Well there you have it. Most of these thoughts have come from me playing my army lists mostly based around all terminators with a paladin unit backed up by dreadknights and coteaz. I have not lost in 6th yet with these lists.

furbyballer wrote:Hey guys,

new to the forum but not new to GKs. I have been playing them since they sucked (cough daemon hunters cough).

Here are some of my thoughts and what I have had great success with in my very competitive area.

Coteaz is always worth it. I have been including him in every single game I play since he has a DH, the ability to take 2 divination spells, still retains hammer hand, can shoot at everything that deepstrikes near him, re-rolls the initiative, and makes henchmen scoring. Honestly I don't see why every list doesn't include him.

If you are running a Draigo wing style list then a banner is a must in this psychic environment with Eldar and Tyranids. Warding staves are also now a must in this unit to tank chalenges. Paladins should always have a divination character with them. It makes them an absolutely monster unit.

Every 10 man terminator/paladin unit needs to have 2-3 hammers, a stave, and a banner. Everything else is your choice and of course the obligatory psycannons.

Due to always taking Coteaz, I have been bringing a 6man psyker unit with 3 stormbolter henchman in a rhino. They either are amazing or all their heads explode but they are often overlooked. They are so cheap and a scoring unit to boot and if the psykers die, everyone forgets about the 3 scoring storm bolter henchmen.

Dreadknights=Awesome in terminator heavy lists. They provide amazing 1st turn threat range and act as huge bullet magnets. This allows your units to cross the field taking very little fire.

Every important unit should be lead from the front by an independent character with a 2+ armor save. With a 2+ and then LOS roll of 2+, especially with paladins, it is too good not do this.

I have found storm ravens useful in shooting down other flyers and as a gun boat, but every time I have used it as a transport it has failed. Honestly, a unit of paladins or terminators with a divination character can shoot down flyers just as well. But I continue to use it only at high point cost matches.

On the vindicare debate, I have found him to be totally useless know with LOS allocation. Sure he is good at killing vehicles but he will die before earning his points back and with less vehicles present...there are better options for 145 pts.

I have also found in Draigo lists that dropping units of 2 paladins onto objectives is very cost effective. I usually equip them with sword and hammer and when needed, they still kill or tie up much more expensive units.

Well there you have it. Most of these thoughts have come from me playing my army lists mostly based around all terminators with a paladin unit backed up by dreadknights and coteaz. I have not lost in 6th yet with these lists.

I wouldn't take Coteaz against Eldar, but other than that, your impressions are pretty similar to how mine have been.

daedalus- I always right up all comer lists so I just have to make due when I play eldar. So far they have not been much of a problem, but it is a nuisance to not have psychic powers. However, this is why I always tell people to take banners because you don't have to fight threw runes of warding.

furbyballer wrote:daedalus- I always right up all comer lists so I just have to make due when I play eldar. So far they have not been much of a problem, but it is a nuisance to not have psychic powers. However, this is why I always tell people to take banners because you don't have to fight threw runes of warding.

Yea, that is cool. Me and my friends usually make up a list quickly after we pick teams, and when playing pickup games I usually make a quick list beforehand. However, I do have specific stuff I always take so I can make lists nice and quick.

Jancoran wrote:Ive only played three games with GK (Purifiers). I have 50 guys with 20 Psycannons. 3 Lazerbacks a Vindicare and Crowe.

IG continue to whoop me. No other army but that one. Seems no matter what I do, I can't beat 'em. Gah! I've gotten close but the battle of attrition is just not one I can easily win. The colossus is just stupid awesome.

Seriously thinking that I need a Grandmaster for the added mobility he brings. He's just so many points though, just to be able to scout/outflank a unit... But yet so enticing...

Have you consider taking Rhinos instead of Razorbacks? I always feel like you are hamstringing yourself when you put purifiers in razorbacks because it halves your shots and psycannons are so good. I have found units of 6-7 purrifiers to be perfect and put them in rhinos. I also back them up with 2 dreadknights instead of quad autocannon dreadnoughts because they offer that incredible movement potential and act as giant bullet magnets.

I have also found that if you run 10 purifiers, a good combination I have found is to run 2 incinerators and 2 psycannons and combat squad them in a single rhino. Drive up and drop off the suicide flamer squad to roast something and then continue to drive by shoot everything from with in the rhino with your psycannons. The incinerators plus cleansing flame are awesome for being a charge deterrent as well.

Dan

Have you consider taking Rhinos instead of Razorbacks? I always feel like you are hamstringing yourself when you put purifiers in razorbacks because it halves your shots and psycannons are so good. I have found units of 6-7 purrifiers to be perfect and put them in rhinos. I also back them up with 2 dreadknights instead of quad autocannon dreadnoughts because they offer that incredible movement potential and act as giant bullet magnets.

I have also found that if you run 10 purifiers, a good combination I have found is to run 2 incinerators and 2 psycannons and combat squad them in a single rhino. Drive up and drop off the suicide flamer squad to roast something and then continue to drive by shoot everything from with in the rhino with your psycannons. The incinerators plus cleansing flame are awesome for being a charge deterrent as well.

Hrm.. I think you might be playing this wrong. If you combat squad, your two halves are considered to be seperate units and can not share a single rhino. The psycannons can steal the rhino but you won't be able to have the incinerator group inside there and vice versa.

On another trend, I'm experimenting with the evisor assasin and frankly I find him to be surprisingly good in a henchmen list. He's a crazy CC monster and I mostly use him in a counter attack role so often things are already stuck in and I can use someone else to accept challenges.

If he charges a group, you can tie them all up with challenges if they accept or at least kick out the sergeant or something. Divination + lightning claw reroll wounds is fun with 4+D6+1 on the furious charge which tends to do well since he has fleet.(averages go up to around a 9' charge I think). His AP2 pistol is even useful against terminator units (but still just a pistol but meh, w/e. it's almost always gonna hit and wound). Overall fun choice but probably just slightly behind a squad of purifiers kitted out for melee.

Still can't get the culuxus to really do much other than as a shooting against terminator platform though.

Callidus I have some nice tricks with at least esp with IG allies.

Vindicare is still a good choice I think in some lists. Heavy armor penetration is useful if you face alot of buildings which are more prominant now as well as the old standbys of land raider and monolith's. Also still unclear on how it impacts crazy cheese like 2++ rerolling craziness's stuff.
People think he has less survivability but I really don't see a change. I tend to park him in a ruins for LOS reasons so he's generally gonna get 4+ cover, bolster ruins takes it to 3+, and stealth is still 2+ cover save so it's not changed at all. Still always have the fancy pistol shots on the move as well. Just becareful of lash making you impact fall from the top of the ruins lol. Friend use it on me the other day and we had to try to figure out how that was supposed to work but after discussing it, it totally works! It's a very viable strat. (too bad we'll only ever be on the receiving end of that thing)

Melchiour wrote:

l0k1 wrote:For purifier spam players I had a thought last night. I know we all kinda sigh at taking Crowe and trying to figure out what to do with him so, what if you take a Aegis Defense Line and have him man the guns?

I was writing my list for next week and was looking at this as well. My first thought was a soloadin on a gun, but Crowe works as well. Only concern is that he is somewhat exposed. I usually have him in a razorback currently.

He is a lot less safe in a Razorback in the new rules. It's too easy to destroy on him, leaving him stranded. At least behind the Defence Line he can Go to Ground if absolutely necessary. I'd consider putting him in a Raven and leaving him there until he is needed though.

sudojoe wrote:

Have you consider taking Rhinos instead of Razorbacks? I always feel like you are hamstringing yourself when you put purifiers in razorbacks because it halves your shots and psycannons are so good. I have found units of 6-7 purrifiers to be perfect and put them in rhinos. I also back them up with 2 dreadknights instead of quad autocannon dreadnoughts because they offer that incredible movement potential and act as giant bullet magnets.

I have also found that if you run 10 purifiers, a good combination I have found is to run 2 incinerators and 2 psycannons and combat squad them in a single rhino. Drive up and drop off the suicide flamer squad to roast something and then continue to drive by shoot everything from with in the rhino with your psycannons. The incinerators plus cleansing flame are awesome for being a charge deterrent as well.

Hrm.. I think you might be playing this wrong. If you combat squad, your two halves are considered to be seperate units and can not share a single rhino.

Yes they can, it's one of the changes for the new edition.

Yes they can, it's one of the changes for the new edition.

I stand corrected! That is a neat trick, I totally didn't read that last line lol. Thanks for pointing it out

sudojoe wrote:

Yes they can, it's one of the changes for the new edition.

I stand corrected! That is a neat trick, I totally didn't read that last line lol. Thanks for pointing it out

Technically I didn't :p

It will be interesting to see how it will play into the game.

Just had an idea that may be a little off the wall from normal.

Would using MSU of Paladins work as Objective Takers and Surgical Strike Teams?

I'm thinking 2-3 man squads?

Puscifer wrote:Just had an idea that may be a little off the wall from normal.

Would using MSU of Paladins work as Objective Takers and Surgical Strike Teams?

I'm thinking 2-3 man squads?

I liked it, I tried this tactic on an ork player. He was flustered because they deep struck away from what his gameplan was and he was forced to divert and kill them or keep eating pie plates from them.

Pie Plates from Paladins?

Ok... I'm confused.

I can see the use now in a 12 model capacity transport

10 purifiers + a terminator librarian

or as BA - 2 sets of sang priests or something or one and some chaplin or something

A fancy delivery vehicle seating 12 could assault 2 seperate vehicles in one fell swoop

I can see say a storm raven going flat out on arrival and using shrouding for the fancy save and then next turn drop off potentially 3 units to assault 3 seperate enemy positions. (hover mode)

Expensive, but can have a big impact on a traditional gun line in target saturation. 4 targets and 3 things may be engaged by that one reserve roll.

This is a surprising use I didn't think of before.




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Puscifer wrote:Pie Plates from Paladins?

Ok... I'm confused.

They have the holocaust power which is a large pie plate at lower range

I'm clearly not reading the entire book lol.

Can someone please clarify the rules for Holocaust?

Currently at work with no codex to hand.