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A few WWP Qs:

1. Where is a good idea to (how deep) place the WWPs? If it is too deep then the enemy infantry might just surround the thing, nullifying it. If 'tis too shallow, then it's too long to walk.

Initial thinking would be at 12 inch range from the edge, and within a foot of the enemy's concentration (pending terrain and Deployment vagaries).

Delivery:
2. Are 4 wracks tough enough to keep an Archon alive long enough for him to go killing next turn after planting the WWP? Or is a throw-away haem (liquifier) better, so the archon can *come out* of the WWP?

3. One WWP or two?

4. Venom or Raider? I'd rather have dakka venoms bring the WWP to the enemy's lines, because they rock far more than raiders do. So if it survives great, if not, it's about the same points I woulda spent on a raider.

5: Wracks, heam and/or Archon. Will 3 or 4 Wracks be enough to keep the Archon alive through a round of shooting? Should it be a raider so that I can go with 9 wracks? Or another set up?

1850 to 2k points levels.

1) I'd say as deep as you can, but it depends entirely on your enemy's deployment.

In pitched battle, the furthest you can place it is 27" from your table edge, which will in turn measure 18" from your opponent's table edge (6" away from their deployment). An infantry unit on the deployment border and exactly opposite the WWP can move up to it, and with a mediocre run roll can partially surround it, which is enough to at least hinder your movement out of it. So... try to place just out of their reach. If they have Jump Troops, then you must obviously cater for a much larger avoidance zone. Transports are your biggest threat in regards to surrounding - 12" movement, 2" disembark, and 1-6" run. That's a 15"-20" danger radius.

In Dawn of War... the farthest you can drop it down is 39" from your table edge (6" away from their table edge). This is much, much riskier than in Pitched Battle, even though it's effectively the same distance from the opponent's "deployment", because the opponent can choose where their units come out. So, he could choose to have a transport zoom out opposite your WWP placement, in which case it will very likely be surrounded. If your opponent has Jump troops and transports with enough models to surround the WWP (including the hull of the transport), try to stay just more than 12" way from their table edge.

In Pitched Battle... well, deployment there is often rather claustrophobic depending on the volume of your pre-deployed forces. In thise case, try to I'd advise moving parallel to length of the board (so deploying against the smaller height of yrou deployment zone), as that's close to your opponent's corner.

But ultimately, you have to make a judgement call depending on deployment type, and what your opponent has in their army list.

Keep in mind that, in terms of getting units into combat faster, you're effectively granting bonus movement to your WWP deploying units if one imagines their comparative movement if they were otherwise deployed at the border of your deployment zone. Dropping the WWP so that it's border (facing the opponent) is 6" away from your deployment, will grant no maneuverability advantage over the situation where they would just have walked from your deployment, as an example.

2) I'd personally put the WWP on the Haem, with four wracks. Less of a loss if they are focused after placing the WWP (as he will be considerably vulnerable), and you get a unit of Furious Charge wracks and Haemonculi zipping around.

3) one WWP is nice, but 2 WWP really allows you to react accordingly to opponent actions - in choosing where your WWP units come out, and allowing you to get them out if another WWP is surrounded. It's pricey, but very much worth it. Many argue that a two WWP list is the only way one can successfully run a WWP list.

4) Venoms. Keep the cost of WWP deployment as cheap as possible.

5) I'd heartily say 4 wracks with a Haemonculus, for reasons stated above. Give the Haem a Scisscorhand, so that he can re-roll his wounds on the charge! (as a result of the combo providing the unit with two pain tokens).

This also actually ties into the conundrum of which non Haem HQ to take with a WWP list. Archons augment the killy power of WWP lists very, very nicely. The Baron allows a very nice advantage to going first, which is extremely important in WWP lists, more so than usual for DE. Malys allows you to redeploy D3 units, which is an immense help when moving WWP Venoms around to best counter your oppoent's deployment.

Where you put a portal down depends entirely on what mission, what deployment method and what army you're using and what you're up against in each game. It's a judgement call that you'll get better at the more times you use one, there isn't a set "best way" to do it every time.

If you're relying almost entirely on WWP's then you need more than 1, 3 is probably best. In a pitched battle I almost alway try to set it off as far up the board as possible, near somewhere you know you're opponent will have to go (by an objective or in a bottleneck). In spearhead and DoW missions then it depends entirely on the board set up and mission.

Always put your WWP Haemy/Archon in a vehicle (raider or venom, depends entirely on how you run your list) so you have the option to lay it down as far up the board as possible if you need to, it just gives you that option.

I wrote a lil bit about WWPs a couple days ago if you wanna check it out. http://www.3forint.com/2011/08/drunken-master-wtf-is-dark-eldar.html
I'm not sure if this is a super good tactic but it was definitely interesting to me

In my experience using WWPs, I have found there is no 100% right way to place them and no 100% magic number needed in your army either. The bottom line is this: the success of your army is determined by the units you are taking in the WWP list...not how many WWPs you are actually fielding. Additionally, I have found that it isn't completely necessary to always go first...it isn't completely necessary to place the WWP wielder in a vehicle. There are things that the DE can do to draw your opponent in towards you..which makes it easier for you overall. My favorite unit at the moment to use in a WWP list is a full mandrake unit with a Haemy with WWP joined to it...and also an Archon with PL, Agonizer, SF, Drugs, and blast pistol. The unit has move through cover, stealth, strips you of your charge bonus, can shoot 20 shots a turn, and is str4 in CC. It is further buffed by FNP, the archon's combat ability and the haemy's liquifer gun if needed. Out of the 15 games I've played with this unit...I've only lost it once. It's a good setup for a WWP army.

If a Venom holds 6 why does everybody deploy 4 wracks+Haem instead of 5 wracks+Haem? Wracks are not expensive, and the going concern here seems to be keeping the unit alive.

Venoms hold 5 afaik

I think 3 Grotesques with a Haem is a very nice deployment unit, but the newest version of Army Builder claims that this is illegal to place in a Raider because it exceeds transport capacity. I can't find any reason this should be the case. Is this an Army Builder bug or am I missing something?

schadenfreude wrote:If a Venom holds 6 why does everybody deploy 4 wracks+Haem instead of 5 wracks+Haem? Wracks are not expensive, and the going concern here seems to be keeping the unit alive.

As stated, the Venom's transport capacity is 5.

As for Army Builder, it's convenient, but it's buggy, and many people take it all as face value and thus do not notice, thus end up restricting themselves. Nothing stops you from putting two Grotesques in a venom.

That said, I'm much happier having a larger squad of 3-5 pop out of a WWP with a Haemonculus.

Dok wrote:I wrote a lil bit about WWPs a couple days ago if you wanna check it out. http://www.3forint.com/2011/08/drunken-master-wtf-is-dark-eldar.html
I'm not sure if this is a super good tactic but it was definitely interesting to me

I do own some unloved (unpainted) Harlies, so the tactic you discussed is within my reach.

Something to consider if I get any more time tonight to work on my list before next Tuesday.

To all: I'll try to take notes and bring feedback to the discussion on Tuesday night's double header.