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Hey all. I was looking over the WGF webstore the other day and thought some of thier models would be workable for conversions i'm planning (including the huscarls and persian infantry)

Then I remembered hearing about some sort of drama on dakka, so I went and searched, but found little in the way of answers as to what happened, just griping on how some of the sculpts look like malformed rejects (which I agree with on some counts, not so much on others)

Could someone please tell me what the drama train was about and what actually happened.

Around January the original owner was forced out and loudly tossed out accusations about the new Chinese owner.

As far as I've heard since then they've gotten things back on track. Things are shipping and new products are coming out.

That being said there was a lot of drama and people swearing they'd never buy from them again.

Thanks KK, all I need to know. Not enough to stop me from buying thier products.

Although with that said, I'll buy indirect.

Be aware though, that thier historical models are non-heroic 28mm in height and proportion. The look fairly small next to 40k and WFB figures. However, they scale well with GW LoTR as well as other company's 28mm historicals and other old school 28mm fantasy figs.

As to quality, most of their stuff is pretty good. Some of the earlier stuff is a bit rougher, but there's enough pics at their website and elsewhere to allow you to judge pretty well which sets are up to your standards.

Eilif wrote: However, they scale well with GW LoTR as well as other company's 28mm historicals and other old school 28mm fantasy figs.

Hmm I hear conflicting statements when I hear this. People say that 28mm is actually too big for lotr. Much like the difference between 28mm true scaled and 28mm heroic. Could be difference of kits though I suppose

kenshin620 wrote:

Eilif wrote: However, they scale well with GW LoTR as well as other company's 28mm historicals and other old school 28mm fantasy figs.

Hmm I hear conflicting statements when I hear this. People say that 28mm is actually too big for lotr. Much like the difference between 28mm true scaled and 28mm heroic. Could be difference of kits though I suppose

It's not a perfect match, but much of the difference in heights is due to the integral base attached to the feet of the WGF figs. Also, the LotR figs have changed a bit in size over time. Here's some pics to clarify.

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2010/09/13/wargame-factory-ancients-and-lord-of-the-rings-fig/

Supposedly GW LotR and WGF historicals are both close to "true 28mm" which is 28mm from sole to eye and not overly exagerated (there's always a touch of exageration in miniatures) in sculpting. This is in comparison to GW 40k and WFB who call their minis 28mm, but they are mostly 30-32mm sole to eye and have "heroic" proportions.

I realize. I mainly use historicals as the basis for my imperial guard.


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I realize. I mainly use historicals as the basis for my imperial guard.

Wow. Never seen their stuff next to another company's figures. They look like green plastic army men next to GW's stuff. Count me out.

They also cost a fraction of GW's prices. It is a case of deciding whether you want quality or quantity. And you won't be buying Games Workshop Romans or Persians anytime soon, either.

And tehy've been around 3 years vs 30.

Guildsman wrote:Wow. Never seen their stuff next to another company's figures. They look like green plastic army men next to GW's stuff. Count me out.

A fair enough opinion, but IMHO of the three WGF figs shown, only the two handed axeman seems a bit soft in detail (and that could be just the painting and pos). The other two seem nearly comparable with GW. I rather like the fig with shield and axe.

I'm thinking of buying some of their viking line to use as Fenrisian citizen objective markers.

I have some of there Vikings and have to say that they are good for their price. They look tiny next to any 40k or Fantasy miniature, but that's just because they are not really 28mm. Some of the heads look a little large though.
It really is the price of WF that is the difference, usually $20 for 30+ miniatures

General Seric wrote: They look tiny next to any 40k or Fantasy miniature, but that's just because they are not really 28mm. es

As we explained, they are 28mm

GW is just a bigger 28mm

Do we know why there is a discrepancy? Is it that GW measures differently (foot to eye level, instead of foot to top of head), or are they just wrong?

GW scale their miniature at what is termed 28mm heroic scale rather than true 28mm. The LOTR stuff is much closer to true 28mm. I found a post on Warseer that neatly explains the difference:

Warseer Poster wrote:Heroic Scale is a term used to describe models that have their proportions modified to make them seem 'more awesome' but still be roughly 28mm to the eye. This is usually done by making the head/hands/feet/weapons larger than would be correct to allow more detail to be sculpted onto the 'key' areas of the model, and as a result the plainer areas like legs are reduced.

True scale is a term used for so many different types of model that it has lost all real meaning.

All* GW models are heroic scale, if you want correctly** proportioned models then you will need to use a different manufacturer.

ie the bottom line is, heroic scale has very little to do with the height of the model, ther is way more to consider than just the height.

*Some of the LOTR models are nearly correct.
** as in, like a human would be

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311681


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You can see it clearly when comparing GW's Skeletons to Mantic's skeletons. Both are roughly the same scale (Mantic stuff is closer to true 28mm scale) but the GW Skeleton's hands/head/arms are much larger in proportion to the rest of the body, whereas the Mantic skeleton is a bit more proportionally 'correct'.

kenshin620 wrote: As we explained, they are 28mm

GW is just a bigger 28mm

Not quite.

You would have been mostly right in the 90's, but since then there's been quite alot of what is known as "scale creep" most GW miniatures (except possibly for some LoTR) are no longer 28mm at all. If you measure them from sole-to-eye" you will find that they tend to be between 30 and 32mm. Deosn't sound like much until you put them next to actual 28mm and they are half-head taller or more.

Of course GW has never felt the need to bow to convention, so when they do describe their minis, they do tend to use the label of 28mm even though it is almost completely incorrect. Complicating this is that other companies have followed suit, creating minis in scale with current GW but calling them 28mm anyay.

Guildsman wrote:Do we know why there is a discrepancy? Is it that GW measures differently (foot to eye level, instead of foot to top of head), or are they just wrong?

GW is just wrong, but being the big dog, alot of folks don't realize it.

Filbert is spot-on with his note on "heroic". Properly applied, the "Heroic" tag refers to exaerated proportions, not to height. It is often misused however, as a way of referring to GW and other companies who produce 30mm-and-bigger figures.

Technically nearly all miniatures are "heroic" as there are many details and even human features (noses, ankles, fingers) that are difficult to sculpt, mold and paint at small scales. However we apply the "True" label to companies who try to get close to realistic proportions (Wargames Factory, Warlord, etc, etc) as a way of separating them from compaines like GW and PP who purposely adhere to a more exagerated "heroic" scale.

Notably, the increase in plastic kits has made it easier for companies to come closer to "True" scale as the plastic manufacturing has the capability (not always used) to replicate very fine detail.

In the end, I advise anyone looking at a range of figures they are not familiar with to find comparison photos or contact the manufacturer and ask for the height of the figure from "Sole-To-Eye".

That's good to know. As far as wargames factory is concerned. I guess I just don't care for their level of detail. They seem very... soft, compared to most other companies out there. Filbert, how do you like your Mantic stuff? I've heard similar complaints about their sculpts as well.

I love the Mantic stuff, personally. I know the Elves aren't to everyone's taste but I think they are OK, certainly not too bad for a young company's 'first attempt'. I have the Mantic Undead army too and I find that to be excellent quality, easily on a par with GW stuff, IMO. The ghouls in particular are very good. I also have the Dwarf and Chaos Dwarf army sets too - the dwarf stuff I haven't finished assembling yet but I do like the aesthetic - I think the Mantic dwarfs are a bit more defined rather than fat, squat horrors. The Chaos Dwarves are a pain in the arse to assemble due to being metal conversion kits to convert the dwarf plastic sets. I am willing to forgive this simply because I like the idea of being able to field a CD army without having to get a mortgage to afford OOP Ebay minis.

As with everything, it's a balancing act - Mantic's stuff can be hit and miss but this is counterbalanced by the price and value for money. I am less bothered about having miniature works of art on my table top than I am about actually being able to afford them. IMO, Mantic blend a certain level of quality with affordability so they get a thumbs up from me.

Again, agreed.
The only mantic stuff I've had has been elves and Ghouls. They were better than my WGF celts and and Colonial british. Some of the newer WGF kits like the orcs look good, though I haven't seen them in person yet.

By current standards Mantic may be a bit hit or miss, but whether or not they are "GW" in quality, everything they are doing seems to at least be in the "modern" level of quality. Additionally they seem to be at or quite above above the level of the previous decade's figs from other manufactueres that myself and others often pointed to as GW alternatives.

I have used the WGF great coats for my guard, they scale in very well with GW cadians.

There was a time when it all seemed a bit dodgy and i wasnt sure WGF would survive but the minis are available again, oddly the boxes have changed size.

I picked up a pack of their celts to use as some raging Witch Hunter Zealots. They're a little bit shorter than GW figures, but it isn't too bad. The main problems come with mixing bitz. I put a bunch of cadian weapons and arms on them, and the arms required a LOT of filing to get down to a convincing size. The weapons are a lot bigger too. The swords they came with look like toothpicks compared to any of the GW weapons.

The details are definitely a lot softer and kinda blobby. I was a bit disappointed about that. I might try some of the Warlord Games celts or britons if I end up getting another box.

Zefig wrote:I picked up a pack of their celts to use as some raging Witch Hunter Zealots. They're a little bit shorter than GW figures, but it isn't too bad. The main problems come with mixing bitz. I put a bunch of cadian weapons and arms on them, and the arms required a LOT of filing to get down to a convincing size. The weapons are a lot bigger too. The swords they came with look like toothpicks compared to any of the GW weapons.

The details are definitely a lot softer and kinda blobby. I was a bit disappointed about that. I might try some of the Warlord Games celts or britons if I end up getting another box.

Yes, mixing GW parts with historicals is usually a bad idea

Even Perry Miniatures which some people say are "more heroic" compared to other historicals are still much thinner than GW

I wouldn't say it's a BAD idea. It can get awkward, but it can also be used to take the piss on the ridiculousness of GW scale.

Apologies for the poor photo, but hopefully it shows how the Shock Troops bodies and heads scale with GW bits (SM scouts arms mostly, some Cadian).

As for the WGFactory 'drama', there are two sides to every story and quite frankly the original owners' story wasn't to my liking- along with their shenanigans on almost all the various wargames forums.

I ordered some more Shock Troops and the orcs a couple months back and got them very fast, so it would seem the shipping issues the previous owners were known for have been sorted out. I too bought some historicals to merge with GW parts and didn't think it was worth the effort, as they are considerably smaller.

Thats some nice coloring right there!

But yea, the shock troops pretty much HAD to be in scale with GW or they wouldnt sell

I remember all the posts a long time ago on their forums

"Looks cool! Are they gonna be compatible with GW?"
"Will their parts fit on cadians?"
"Are they gonna be heroic scale?"
"These would be nice IG! Make sure they fit their bits though"

And on and on and on