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Hi. I've been playing DE since their new codex came out but have never really ventured above the 1500 point level. I only really play with friends and have never played in a tournament, but my group is reasonably competitive. My regular opponents never really take more than 4 or 5 vehicles and AV14 is extremely rare, so I won't need masses of anti-tank. I'll be fighting Chaos Space Marines, Vanilla Marines, Orks and maybe Tau regularly. With all that in mind, Here's my list:


Heamonculus – Webway Portal
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider - Flickerfields

Heamonculus – Liquifier
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider – Flickerfields

Heamonculus – Liquifier
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider – Flickerfields

5 Warriors – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

5 Warriors – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

Baron Sathonyx
3 Beast Masters – 5 Khymera, 4 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager – Flickerfields

Ravager – Flickerfields

Talos – Twin-linked Heatlance, Chain Flail


1720 Points


I normally sacrifice the WWP Haemonculus to guarentee I get the Beasts and Talos in a good spot. The Scourges either deepstrike or come through the portal, depending on how the board is set up. Everything else is pretty straight forward.

Other options that I own, and will happily consider including are:
Archon, Court of the Archon (1 of each model), Succubus, Lileth, Razorwing Jetfighter, 5 Scourges, 6 Reaver Jetbikes, 10 Hellions, 10 Wracks, 10 Incubi and 3 more Venoms.
I may be reluctant to inculde anything other than what I already own, I've already filled a big case and am running out of room to store new stuff! If its a really good suggestion I may consider it though

Let me know what you think, and any changes you can suggest

Hey man.

Always nice to see new lists coming up. Yours is a bit different in some ways then what we are used to see but the metagame doesnt look the same everywere.

Also you mention that its a semi competetive list you are building. Would you like to define that? Do you intend to play tournaments just for fun or do you just play casual games every week with some friends?

Either way. Some feel that it is not your job to make sure your opponent has a fun game. I have another view on that. I play warhammer mainly cause i'm close to 30 years old and it is nice to have a hobby to focus on. Besides that i like the competetive part of it, even if 99% of my games are just casual once at the club with friends.

Well enough chit chat and on to the list.

You got as it is now 5 elements of CC. I myself when bringing along a bit more CC try to have atleast 4 and maybe stay there. You have Beasts and wyches that can both be hammers and tarpits. The Talos out of the WWP is really cool but not really needed either.

I wonder if you really need to have 3 haemonculus with 3 units of wyches either? I think it is hard to just say change this and change that, i like to show it in a more complete way. So i am about to post a list that is very much like yours but with a few changes and i hope you see what i mean. As i mentioned earlier i have no idea about the meta you play in but this might be fun atleast.

Here it goes. If you dont want me to post the list just let me know and i'l delete it. I tried to keep in mind what models you had avaible aswell.


Haemonculus: liquifier
Haemonculus: liquifier

5 Incubis: Klaivex in venom with 2 SC

3 Wracks in a venom with 2 SC
5 warriors: blaster in a venom with 2 SC
5 warriors: blaster in a venom with 2 SC
8 wyches: haywires, heka with agoniser in raider with lance
8 wyches: haywires, heka with agoniser in raider with lance

5 scourges: 2 heat lances
2 beastmasters: 4 khymereas, 2 razorwing flocks
2 beastmasters: 4 khymereas, 2 razorwing flocks

ravager: flickerfield
ravager: flickerfield
razorwing jetfighter: 2 lances, 4 mono, flickerfield

total: 1750


So the list is pretty much the same with some smaller changes. The incubis is always being discussed however they need the PGL from the Archon to be useful. I have used incubis in almost every game i played and you dont need the PGL if you use them correctly.

Now i don't know if you think 4 venoms and 2 raiders are to many transports for your taste. Perhaps the WWP part was something you really really enjoyed playing. If so let me know and i'l try to build something around that insteed cause face it, WWP rocks.

The small unit of wracks is a cheap scoring unit and gets you a cheap venom that more or less can be thrown away if needed. The wyches was reduced both in numbers, in upgrades and in units. Two units should be fine and the shardnets even if being good are points that often are better elsewere. 2 x 8 wyches with agoniser and that starts with FNP isnt something you just laugh at imo.

The beastmaster unit you had is a wonderful size. But i think splitting it up into two that are almost as big for the cost of 50p would be a nice upgrade. I noticed that your army has 4 slots that it doesnt use so i tried to fill it up a bit just since it looks cooler and often feels better when playing (my own oppinion).

The talos and beasts that came out of the portal is not bad at all in the right list. But i feel that your setup was more in need of mobile shooting and distraction units so thats why the haemo with wwp, the beasts were split into two and the talos became a razorwing jetfighter.

The razorwing is a model that grows on me everytime i play with it. Depending on what list i play i take it with different setups. For my next tournament that happens in the beginning of october i am bringing a razorwing along with 2 disintigrators, splinter cannon and 4 monoscythe missiles. I have enough anti tank weapons in that list so having a razorwing that i can reserv and have it come in later on when transports are open and troops are running around will be perfect.

Hope you liked my post atleast. If not i'l just delete it for you. And good luck with gaming.

The immediate thought I have is the fragility of your delivery system for the WWP.

Probably an adjustment I'd make, considering your meta, is to sack the Scourges and sub in Baron Sathy (use a decked out Hellion as 'counts as' and you're boss). The plus one to the roll off is pretty huge for WWP lists, and Baron Sathypants will actually make your Beastmasters *even harder* to kill (as though that were possible)

The loss is a late game anti-mech squad, which you probably don't need anyway considering the meta - if 2 Ravagers, 3 Raiders, 3 boats of haywire grenade Wyches, 2 Blasters, and late game Talos and Beastmasters can't handle 4-5 vehicles then probably the fault is yours

The freed up points could be fed back into that Wrack unit to make it something (immediate thought, unless my maths are really off, is 5 Warriors with Shredder in the same Venom as before - it's a little more multi-functional than the Wracks, still scoring, and though not as good as a Blaster is hardly a useless weapon option considering that you appear to be foot heavy)

You could also feed points back into the Beasts, or amp up the Talos a bit more, or some combination thereof. Maybe even just a Liquifier or something on that Heamon so he can't be ignored after dropping the portal.

teknistmajjan wrote: Also you mention that its a semi competetive list you are building. Would you like to define that? Do you intend to play tournaments just for fun or do you just play casual games every week with some friends?

I've never played in a tournament and don't intent to for the forseeable future, I only really play (apart from the occasional pick up game) casually with friends at home. That said, the focus is still strongly on winning as long as we still have a laugh doing it! There's a gentlemens agreement that we avoid all the typical spammy lists because, dispite being good, we don't see them as being much fun when fighting them over and over again.

teknistmajjan wrote: So the list is pretty much the same with some smaller changes. The incubis is always being discussed however they need the PGL from the Archon to be useful. I have used incubis in almost every game i played and you dont need the PGL if you use them correctly.

I used to run Incubi in al my games, initially with an Archon, then as 2 squads of 5 in venoms. They are quite good, but I' begining to feel like its 175 (with venom) extra points that are being spent doing something that I can still do perfectly well without them. I agree that the PGL is far from being necessary, infact, I think its a bad choice as it makes the squad far to expensive.

teknistmajjan wrote: The small unit of wracks is a cheap scoring unit and gets you a cheap venom that more or less can be thrown away if needed. The wyches was reduced both in numbers, in upgrades and in units. Two units should be fine and the shardnets even if being good are points that often are better elsewere. 2 x 8 wyches with agoniser and that starts with FNP isnt something you just laugh at imo.

I have played around with Wracks quite a bit, a 5 man squad with a liquifier is the exact same cost as a 5 man blaster/warrior unit, so I sometimes make a striaght swap. I like the 9 (wo)man wych units because it makes better use of the Haemonculus' pain token, why only give 8 modes FNP when you can give it to 9 for only 10 (12 with haywire) points? It aso means I have that extra body that could make the difference and avoid me having to allocate wounds on the precious Hekatrix.

teknistmajjan wrote: The beastmaster unit you had is a wonderful size. But i think splitting it up into two that are almost as big for the cost of 50p would be a nice upgrade. I noticed that your army has 4 slots that it doesnt use so i tried to fill it up a bit just since it looks cooler and often feels better when playing (my own oppinion).

I'll admit I haven't tried splitting the beasts into smaller squads, my initial thought is that it would ruin their offensive ability and purely make them into a speed bump. As wall as adding another kill point to the list. If you have any experience with them let me know though, I may have to give it a try

teknistmajjan wrote: The talos and beasts that came out of the portal is not bad at all in the right list. But i feel that your setup was more in need of mobile shooting and distraction units so thats why the haemo with wwp, the beasts were split into two and the talos became a razorwing jetfighter.The razorwing is a model that grows on me everytime i play with it. Depending on what list i play i take it with different setups. For my next tournament that happens in the beginning of october i am bringing a razorwing along with 2 disintigrators, splinter cannon and 4 monoscythe missiles. I have enough anti tank weapons in that list so having a razorwing that i can reserve and have it come in later on when transports are open and troops are running around will be perfect.

I do like the Razorwing, but I find that, whenever I play it I constantly worry about how easy it is to kill. It means I normally end up unloading all the missiles on turn 1 just to make sure they don't go to waste. I also ike how the Talos can pop a transport and then walk in and murder the unit inside over a turn or two. It has he abiity to take an entire transport and squad out of the game, the Razorwing doesn't. I have to spend a turn of Ravager fire opening up the transport to be able to pie plate the unit inside. I don't think there's enough (non-CC) anti tank in the list to be able to justify sending 2 heavy options after a single unit.

Thor665 wrote:The immediate thought I have is the fragility of your delivery system for the WWP.

Probably an adjustment I'd make, considering your meta, is to sack the Scourges and sub in Baron Sathy (use a decked out Hellion as 'counts as' and you're boss). The plus one to the roll off is pretty huge for WWP lists, and Baron Sathypants will actually make your Beastmasters *even harder* to kill (as though that were possible)

The loss is a late game anti-mech squad, which you probably don't need anyway considering the meta - if 2 Ravagers, 3 Raiders, 3 boats of haywire grenade Wyches, 2 Blasters, and late game Talos and Beastmasters can't handle 4-5 vehicles then probably the fault is yours

I hadn't thought of the Baron, that could work well. I've play tested him in other lists with beasts (as per your and DoP's suggestion) and really like it. That would give me another 30 points to play with. I did find myself struggling for targes with the scourges in the last game or two I've used them, the big vehicles that I'd want to use the heatlance on are normally fubar by the time they arrive. I guess they won't be too sorely missed.

Thor665 wrote:The freed up points could be fed back into that Wrack unit to make it something (immediate thought, unless my maths are really off, is 5 Warriors with Shredder in the same Venom as before - it's a little more multi-functional than the Wracks, still scoring, and though not as good as a Blaster is hardly a useless weapon option considering that you appear to be foot heavy)

You could also feed points back into the Beasts, or amp up the Talos a bit more, or some combination thereof. Maybe even just a Liquifier or something on that Heamon so he can't be ignored after dropping the portal.

The Wracks aren't in my list they were suggested by teknistmajjan. With only 30 points spare I think I'd struggle to add anything useful to the Beast unit, after the 12 points to add a 4th master I won't really be able to afford many beasts! I guess giving the Talos a liquifier would give it the ability to take on hordes more safely and make him a bigger threat when there aren't any transports near the portal. I was keeping the WWP Haemy cheap as he very rarely survives after turn 1 anyway, I can't see much else that I could spend the points on though. Thanks for the advice I'll have a quick look and see what I can do with the few left over points once I include Sathy, then I'll write it up again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heamonculus – Webway Portal, Liquifier
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider - Flickerfields

Heamonculus – Liquifier
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider – Flickerfields

Heamonculus – Liquifier
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider – Flickerfields

5 Warriors – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

5 Warriors – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

Baron Sathonyx
3 Beast Masters – 5 Khymera, 4 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager – Flickerfields

Ravager – Flickerfields

Talos – Twin-linked Heatlance, Chain Flail, Extra Close Combat Weapon


1745 Points

I'm not quite sure what to do with the remaining 5 points (or the remaining 20 if I don't that the extra CCW on the Talos). The twin-linked liquifier is 5 points and would've been perfect, but the entry says "the Talos may replace one of its close combat weapons with a *blah blah blah* Chainflail or TL liquifier". I'm leaning towards taking the flail, as it helps against both infantry and vehicles, but if I took the liquifier, it would give me 5 more points to play with. Any suggestions woud be much appreciated

List in 1st post updated. I've got 30 points spare now, any suggestions what to do with them?

Hey. Got lots of work at the moment so has not been able to answer before now.

Regarding the beast squads, will only talk about that now. I have tried many different sizes and the one that always performed best for me is the one with 2 beastmasters 4 khymereas and 2 razorwing flocks. I usually run 2 of those units and together that is 204 points! So its cheap as hell.

It is certainly not a speed bump. The unit got 34 attacks on assault. 12 are rending, 16 are str 4 and 6 are str 3.
22 of them strike at initiativ 6 and 12 on 5 so you hit before almost everything in the game. Its also easy to save up the wounds on them so.

They have so many purposes it is insane. In my footdar list i think the unit that opens most transports for me is the beast units with their rending attacks. HAving them coming out of the WWP is also amazing, if you get the WWP in a good position these units can assault all over the table when they arrive from reserv.

In my current tournament list i run 2 of those squads i posted just as it is. The do not reserv and do not have any portal or anything. They just run forward until they have something to assault, and it has worked perfectly.

I'd have to free up 18 points to get the two smaller squads in place of my current 3-master unit, d'you reckon that could be done? The ony thing I can see at a glance would be to drop some shardnets, but I'm reasonably happy with how they perform. That would also leave 1 unit without the stealth USR that Sathy would provide.
My best idea at the moment looks like this:

Heamonculus – Liquifier, Webway Portal
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfields

Heamonculus – Shattershard
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider – Dark Lance, Flickerfields

Heamonculus – Liquifier
9 Wyches – Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, Agoniser
Raider – Dark Lance, Flickerfields

5 Warriors – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

5 Warriors – Blaster
Venom – Extra Splinter Cannon

Baron Sathonyx
3 Beast Masters – 5 Khymera, 4 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager – Dark Lances, Flickerfields

Ravager – Dark Lances, Flickerfields

Talos – Twin-linked Heatlance, Chain Flail, Extra Close-Combat Weapon


1750 Points

What does Dakka think?

Really it depends on what is more importent for you. The liquifiers on Haemonculus or the shardnets. I myself find that the Liquifiers seldom get to do anything so i most often to without them.

The shardnets is something i really just run in real tar pit units that only have one job and that is to hold things down until the backup arrives.

Regarding having one beast unit without the Baron. You can use that one to screen. Pop transports with str 4 + rending and do a whole lot of things. The unit is so cheap. Onlt 102 points that your opponent can't really focus on it as they would want.

One other thing that i have started to do is to drop the Flickerfields from the Wyches transports. Most people say i am insane but look at it this way. You speed across the table in turn one getting your cover. Sure you dont have any inv if he has some dread or anything coming at you. But you get the point you still have a even better save against shooting. Second turn the Wyches jump out and you either position yourself 12" away to shoot at some vehicle or you speed 24" and get yourself into cover for the remaining time of the game. From there you can sit and snipe vehicles all you want.

Its hard just to explain, one has to see it work before you can believe it.

Just give it a try. Either drop the liquifiers, the shardnets or 2 flickerfields. I can gurantee you that having two units of beasts insteed of one bigger will prove to be much more valuble in most matchups.

A few cents.