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I know, I know another one of these but was having a debate with some friends over this one, so other opinions are always welcome.

Its an Ork boy armed with a choppa and slugga (slugga has enough rounds for 30 kills + another belt of ammo = 60 in total) vs your average 21st century civilian(s).
We were talking about him being dropped into something like the recent Londion riots or wherever you like, in an urban environment, no law enforcment, no military involvement and probably outside of somwehere with availability of guns. So UK/Ireland/Spain wherever.
How far do you think he would get?
Could he be stopped by sheer numbers armed with your basic household weapons, knives, axes, baseball bats or would it be an unstoppable rampage.
Note: hes not a fully grown Nob but is a large, battle hardened boy.


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Note 2: Your average joes have absolutely no military training and lack high level organisation.

Depends if the general population fears it, but it should be mostly endless until a SWAT team arrives. Then once they kill it a few months later there will be many more.

Numbers will get the Ork in the end.

In the 2nd edition main box set, in the Wargear book on p. 28-29, there is a story where an Imperial Guardsman clubs an Ork into at least unconsciousness with the butt of his lasrifle. An Ork is tough and brutal but they are not immortal. If you swarm the Ork with enough numbers, the Ork will be dragged down eventually.

Omg Ghaz would probably bring down the UK. he himself would kill tens of thousands and he is so big that he gives off LOADS of spores to make more boys.

Someone would eventually hit it with a molotov, surely? And then drive like a car into it?


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Iracundus wrote:Numbers will get the Ork in the end.

In the 2nd edition main box set, in the Wargear book on p. 28-29, there is a story where an Imperial Guardsman clubs an Ork into at least unconsciousness with the butt of his lasrifle. An Ork is tough and brutal but they are not immortal. If you swarm the Ork with enough numbers, the Ork will be dragged down eventually.

Gen pop will not swarm a green monster built bigger than Arnie in his prime. The number of people in gen pop who are buff enough to hurt an Ork as much as a scifi soldier, no doubt given roids etc, with a rifle butt made of scifi materials, is going to be very low.


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Maybe a lucky thrown brick will brain it. Maybe.

Burn it!

lindsay40k wrote:
Gen pop will not swarm a green monster built bigger than Arnie in his prime. The number of people in gen pop who are buff enough to hurt an Ork as much as a scifi soldier, no doubt given roids etc, with a rifle butt made of scifi materials, is going to be very low.

Where is the evidence for this claim that all Guardsmen are given steroids? Can you quote and cite such evidence or are you waxing hyperbolic? There isn't any indication that this is a standard practice in the least, and certainly none in the 2nd edition story, where the Guardsman is just a standard hive ganger/hive worlder inducted into the Guard. It sounds like you are simply trying to put everything from the 40K era on some kind of pedestal as being impossibly better than anything today. Orks are not immortal.

The strength of the average unaugmented human is not described as any substantially different from today. Ork flesh is tough and leathery but it can still be cut and burnt. Orks have eyes that can be goughed or stabbed, and skulls with brains inside that are still susceptible to being knocked unconsciousness if you hit them hard enough (and it is possible as shown by the story in 2nd edition). Any firearms would still hurt an Ork, and even if it ignores a few shots, if it keeps getting shot, eventually it will go down.

It doesn't matter if you are a bodybuilder, if a crowd stampedes in your direction, it is still death by trampling.

Sure, it may be bloody and the cost in civilian life high, but a rioting or stampeding mob would prevail through sheer mass and numbers. The scenario gave the Ork 60 rounds. That is 60 kills at absolute maximum and we know Orks are not the most disciplined or accurate of shooters, so that is likely an overestimate (i.e. the Ork will miss or will overkill, so it wouldn't be just 1 bullet 1 kill). Once it runs out of ammunition, it is reliant purely on hand to hand combat.

There's a degree of hyperbole there, sure, but the IoM seems happy to dose its troops up on combat drugs; Slaught, Frenzon etc.

Getting a conscript into shape over a month or two to carry kit and fight for hours is going to be tricky without any 'cheating', it felt like a reasonable conjecture that there'd be something other than food and water getting pumped into them.

I agree that a mob with firearms - or even just a bunch of gangsters or cops - could bring an Ork down by emptying a bunch of magazines into its face. But then the OP was just talking about unarmed, untrained civvies with household weapons.

I don't think that kind of body of victims are likely to rally to mob up against mega Zangief with a bladed weapon the size of a man, tusks as long as a handspan and monstrous green skin. The odd clear-headed survivor using a molotov or vehicle seems more likely.

lindsay40k wrote:There's a degree of hyperbole there, sure, but the IoM seems happy to dose its troops up on combat drugs; Slaught, Frenzon etc.

And those troops are not the norm. Troops like Savlar Chem Dogs and the like are like Penal Legions, or pretty close to it. Normal Imperial Guardsmen are military personnel with some measure of order and discipline, not wild steroid animals in a psychotic rage.

Getting a conscript into shape over a month or two to carry kit and fight for hours is going to be tricky without any 'cheating', it felt like a reasonable conjecture that there'd be something other than food and water getting pumped into them.

Far from it. You haven't given evidence.

"Reasonable conjecture" just means you are making it up and calling it "reasonable." That is why the request for evidence. What one person claims to be perfectly reasonable and sound conjecture/assumption can be completely ludicrous and unjustifiable to another. Argue from evidence, not opinion.

I agree that a mob with firearms - or even just a bunch of gangsters or cops - could bring an Ork down by emptying a bunch of magazines into its face. But then the OP was just talking about unarmed, untrained civvies with household weapons.

The scenario included such weapons as knives, axes, and baseball bats (not stated of what material). Blades and bludgeoning implements, all of which can and have been shown to be effective against an Ork, if used enough times or at the right location.

Even thrown or dropped bricks and rocks can be incapacitating or deadly. A rock in the eye will inflict damage and potentially blind for example.

I've already said a thrown brick could do the trick and admitted that my 'IG probably use roids or suchlike' theory is pure conjecture.

Depends on where you drop the ork.

Drop it in the UK and you'd find it's natural toughness (above human capability) strength and natural weaponry (plus a massive bore pistol and a meat cleaver the length of a human leg) would make most people RUN AWAY! Guns are few and far between in the UK, and even the SWAT equivilents generally only pack SMGs. The Army has better stuff of course

Drop in in South Central LA, on the other hand, and it's green Tacomeat at the local Taco Bell within 15 mins of landing..

n0t_u wrote:Depends if the general population fears it, but it should be mostly endless until a SWAT team arrives. Then once they kill it a few months later there will be many more.

Nice one!

Drop it here, and watch us cultivate the spores for shrooms

Ascalam wrote:Depends on where you drop the ork.

Drop it in the UK and you'd find it's natural toughness (above human capability) strength and natural weaponry (plus a massive bore pistol and a meat cleaver the length of a human leg) would make most people RUN AWAY! Guns are few and far between in the UK, and even the SWAT equivilents generally only pack SMGs. The Army has better stuff of course

Drop in in South Central LA, on the other hand, and it's green Tacomeat at the local Taco Bell within 15 mins of landing..

This. But people are generally discounting the fact that a) The general average population is not going to know what an Ork boy is anyways and b) once the Ork boy lets loose with slugga and choppa, mincing up average joes, the rest will most likely panick and get as far away from the green monstrosity as possible, until some punks with more-balls-than-brains gang up on it, or the cops/army are called in.

Soladrin wrote:Drop it here, and watch us cultivate the spores for shrooms

I can imagine that this might be quite messy should the spores begin to grow.

Pictures will describe this better. This is like:



vs.

Your average Joe has a tank?

Intersting question.I would say the Ork would be able to wreak quite a fair amount of havoc. The sudden appearance of a violent, large, green, fanged, foul smelling beast with a huge cleaver and massive gun that starts killing indiscriminately will cause just about all civilians to panic. Most people will flee from the ork in all directions, and actual deaths will be quite low as a result.

However, without any police / military intervention as the OP stated and without any kind of firearms, I would expect the rampage to last for quite a while. At least a day.

Your average Joe will only form a group together and fight the ork in numbers if all avenues of escape have been eliminated. This would imply that the ork has been on a widespread rampage for a while and the civilians have had enough time to overcome their shock, panic, disbelief and fear. There is an exception to this though, there is a reasonably good chance you will get someone who either goes crazy or just looses control of a car and basically roadkills the ork. I suspect your average car could do a reasonable amount of damage to an ork boy.

If police and military intervention is allowed. I wouldn't expect the ork to last too long. While some police might panic and break on seeing an ork (after all its a never before seen green monster of death, they don't exactly teach you how to deal with those in police academies.) most should remain composed enough to bring it down, especially if they have access to firearms. Riot gear should also do it, although that will result in police casualties.

Pilau Rice wrote:Your average Joe has a tank?

Ork = Sherman
Average Joe = kittie

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:especially if they have access to firearms.

The vast majority of the UK Police do not, and it will take a while for those who are trained to use firearms to get to where they're needed. Tasers are fairly common, however, and while they'd likely only temporarily incapacitate an Ork, it should at least buy time.

They might only tickle him. Orks feel virtually no pain, and their nervous system is a bit primitive

Or they could have him flopping around like a tuna, for similar reasons

Anyone ever tried electrocuting an algae infused mushroom?

lindsay40k wrote:

Getting a conscript into shape over a month or two to carry kit and fight for hours is going to be tricky without any 'cheating', it felt like a reasonable conjecture that there'd be something other than food and water getting pumped into them.

Right because even a standard US Soldier only needs 9 weeks to train and that includes carrying around their kit all the time. Trust me, 8 weeks is enough for a conscript to be used to carrying his gear. Especially if they actually issue it to him on day 1.

Ascalam wrote:Depends on where you drop the ork.

Drop it in the UK and you'd find it's natural toughness (above human capability) strength and natural weaponry (plus a massive bore pistol and a meat cleaver the length of a human leg) would make most people RUN AWAY! Guns are few and far between in the UK, and even the SWAT equivilents generally only pack SMGs. The Army has better stuff of course

Drop in in South Central LA, on the other hand, and it's green Tacomeat at the local Taco Bell within 15 mins of landing..

I think people are giving the run of the mill orc boy too much credit! And South Central LA... gimme a break. Like its the toughest place in the world? Most of the little gakkers are just playing at gangster!

An orc is just like a large man, I think any group of 18-35 year old males would kick the gak out of it if it started beating the gak out of one of their number.

They are S3, so its just a strong male, and I think they would kill less than a human male on earth because they aren't as streetwise or intelligent. He could beat 100 people to death if he was smart and went to an all girls school or a nursery, but he isnt from here, so he wouldnt be that smart.

What if he was in the middle of a pretty rough town? One orc would get maybe two-three people before it got mobbed and kicked down the street if it was in a normal area with groups of fighting age males. Sure it might walk right through an old peoples home crumping people, but so would I.

The question could merely be, "how long could a fit, strong, 25 year old man last if he tried to kill as many people as possible in the street"

Answers about the same.

Ascalam wrote:Depends on where you drop the ork.

Drop it in the UK and you'd find it's natural toughness (above human capability) strength and natural weaponry (plus a massive bore pistol and a meat cleaver the length of a human leg) would make most people RUN AWAY! Guns are few and far between in the UK, and even the SWAT equivilents generally only pack SMGs. The Army has better stuff of course

Drop in in South Central LA, on the other hand, and it's green Tacomeat at the local Taco Bell within 15 mins of landing..

Of course, because as we all know UK citizens are slovenly cowards compared to buff US Megamen.

Now, in the real world, where your nationality has sod all to do with your fighting ability, the ork would be overrun. The average ork Boy is about 2m tall (that's around 6ft 6in, by the way) and is very heavily muscled, yes. However, one ork can't fight off fifty guys intent on beating it's head in with bats, bricks, molotov cocktails (which any idiot can make), and various other improvised weapons. And let's not forget about the london gangs, whose ability to lay their hands on firearms borders on ridiculous.
Ultimately, the result is the same wherever you drop it. Ork is beaten.

Actually i'm a Brit, I just live over here You can therefore drop the Jingoistic sarcasm


South Central is a very rough and gun-laden neighbourhood, however, where guns are considered the soft option compared to some of the things they'll do to you there. I've been there. I've seen them firsthand.


I've not lived in London, but i've heard some parts of it are about as rough, to say nothing of the London Met If the unfortunate greenskin were to land in one of these areas he'd probably also be in for a good kicking, but in the UK in general guns are extremely rare, not very powerful (barring military ones) and not carried in multiples by near everyone, like on some neighbourhoods over here.


If the poor sap were to Tellyport into the Ryelands Estate in Lancaster i'd give him about 10 minutes before someone rolled him for his Slugga, offered him drugs or offered him ...other things.. that would baffle the poor lad

Yet another reason to have a weapon close to hand at all times, you never know when those dang xenos are going to drop from the sky

at the very least, it keeps the muggers away.

I don't have much hope for the Ork.

I'd give the Ork a few minutes after the initial onslaught before his possessions have been half inched from his pockets and then another few before he gets pelted with bricks and bottles for having green skin. He wouldn't be able to catch the hit and run Chavs as they whizz past him on their mopeds and scooters and people keep slowing him down asking if he can spare some change or has a spare cigarette.

The ork would eventually get really upset and want to go home but would stay after his application for Housing benefit was expedited.

In the fluff, the only reliable way for a guardsman to kill an Ork boy is with a headshot from a lasgun, a shot to the chest not likely to do much damage.

Lasguns can punch through two meters of concrete.

I'm sorry, no mob is killing an Ork boy with bricks and small knives.

Also, Orks are S3, but that really doesn't mean a damn thing, no human except freaks like Harker (Who is stronger than any man to ever live IRL, he strangled a fething Ravener) can approach their physical strength. They are very high-end S3, and beyond that are better fighters than the vast majority of people in the world.

Only through swarming him and crushing him under the weight of the dead could they bring him down, or if heavy enough weaponry was brought to bear. A baseball bat would just annoy him.

A mob would definitly kill him, the issue is actually getting a mob to gang up on him.

once people realized that this is an actual alien life form and not some guy in a funny suit the general inclination of people would probably be to run away.


If a mob came at him with baseball bats and clubs he would go down, but he would probably take loads of people with him. and then we become infested with orks because we killed him.

Ascalam wrote:Actually i'm a Brit, I just live over here You can therefore drop the Jingoistic sarcasm

Uh, claiming that national areas have no effect on anything is the opposite of jingoism, fella.
Also, orks are unlikely to accept the "other things" on offer, being almost completely androgynous. Any genitals they still have are exclusively for waste removal. Bit like the crown jewels, really - for display purposes only.