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So rumor has is the DAs are getting either the next codex (after Necrons) or the first 6th edition codex.

So the DAs are a sad mess of half-baked concepts mashed together. They're some kind of American Indian, Biker, Monk, half-way to heresy, conspiracy, ancient tech marines. Who are green. But sometimes black. Or maybe white. There might be a good concept in there but damned if I can find it. And y'know my first army was an all-Beakie DA force!

So it's time for my regular round up of things we need more than another Big 4, I mean Big 5, I mean big 6 codex.

To be fair I'm limiting myself to armies GW can do with only a few new kits rather than starting a whole army from scratch.

10 - Hypothetical new Marine chapter: The red, green, grey and blue marines have had codexes for what, 15+ years? The black space marines for 10+, the shiny marines for slightly less. You'd think by now everyone interested in them would have an army now. A hypothetical Codex Red Ronins or Zulu Warriors or well anything NEW for Marines would be just as easy to make a codex AND persuade people to start new armies.

9 - White Scars: Cooler bikes than the Raven Wing, bold color scheme, non-European background AND they would fill a niche of fast cavalry marines which the other chapters really don't do.

8 - Raven Guard: The Other Black Space Marines could be the high-tech special forces modern commando marine force. Again a whole new look for marines that's not currently filled.

7 - Iron Hands: THe Other Other Black Space Marines with their bionics and funky tech could become a tough but slow chapter.

6 - Salamanders: The Other Green Space Marines are among the few non-white chapters (well before GW retconned them into hideous red-eyed ash-skinned mutants) and once upon a time had a distinct playing style with their Initiative of 3.

5 - Imperial Fists/Crimson Fists: Write them as shooty siege marines who win through discipline and firepower rather than assault and you have a whole new appeal for Marine players.

4 - Deathwatch: The Marines in Black like the Shiny Marines are a small elite force specializing in shooting stuff. They have a new RPG which makes them appeal to new players and with some Ordo Xenos inquistion forces and funky Xenos allies would be a cool new army.

3 - Chaos Legions: Pick one. Any one. All of them. WHatever. Any of those options is more interesting than more @#$#ing loyalist marines.

2 - Rogue Traders: Again RPG cross over appeal. A whole mess of units, renegade marines, Kroot, humans, servitors, lots of fliers and shuttles. It would be amazing. Just amazing. So they'll never do it.

1 - Lost and the Damned/Renegade Guard/Chaos Cults: It's time.

1, 2, 3, and 4,

all yes, please though, for the love of terra no more plain SM codexs....deathwatch is like, GK elite style, but their not grey knights

Where's "Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus"?

But yeah, that and Codex: The Lost and the Damned are both prominent elements that I'm surprised never had a codex. I'm okay with the Dark Angels Codex existing, but it really needs a revamp so that it doesn't feel like "Codex: Bleh Marines with Ravenwing and Deathwing".

10.) Hrud
9.) Adeptus Custodes
8.) Adeptus Arbites
7.) Deathwatch
6.) Flesh Tearers
5.) New Assassins Codex
4.) A new Alien Faction
3.) A new non-Imperial Human Faction
2.) Adeptus Mechanicus
1.) Lost and the Damned

.

5 and 6 fo' sho'.
My 2 favorite Chapters.

I don’t want a Deathwatch Codex. The threat of Ward writing it and ruining all the beautiful FFG fluff would just be too high.

“Fear Watch-Captain Gustavo as he carves his name into the Hive Mind and roams the web way destroying Craftworlds!”

No... just no.


All that said I’m actually surprised at you Kyoto – that you’d want a whole stack of other Marine Codices. I think a lot of Marine Chapters deserve their own rules (as opposed to a Special Character that gives them rules), but whole Codices. I’m also surprised that you don’t think the Dark Angels are a salvageable army.

I think that giving up and running away from the bland grey mess that the Dark Angels currently are is a mistake. I think they can be fixed and be made to be more than just the slightly-off-Codex that they currently are (and if I’m being honest, the Dark Angels are more divergent than the Blood Angels, who are just red Ultramarines in nearly every respect). Weirdly enough I agree with the guy at GDOZ who said he’d re-emphasise on the Deathwing and Ravenwing to make them more unique than “We use Terminators” and “We use bikes” which is what they currently are.

You mentioned that the Dark Angels are a mess of concepts, and I think that those concepts can remain as long as they are compartmentalised within each of the subgroups. So take the American Indian aspects that exist already and re-focus them to be all about tradition and remembering your ancestors and whatnot, and then make that unique to the Deathwing. You also mentioned the conspiracy side of things, well take that and re-focus that element just on the Ravenwing – make them the hunters that keep things secret both from within and without. And then take the robe-ish monk stuff and apply that to the more standard/Codex Dark Angel forces.

If you can do a Chaos army with 9 Legions (or however many it is), you can do a mostly Codex Chapter with two special sub-groups.

Combine 1 and 3, ditch 2, turn 4 into a general Inquisition Codex, and give the next Vanilla Marines codex Legion Rules to allow people to play options five-ten and I'd agree.
Surprised an Ad-mech codex isn't on there, it's definitely an option I'd pick over all bar the Chaos Legions/Lost and the Dammed codex, if the latter had the Dark Mechanicus too.

Tau ¬.¬

More serious:
Chaos Legions would be nice, but they'd have to be revamped moreso than a marine chapter that already has most of the line in plastic, and only really needs a conversion kit. The only Legion I can think of that already has mainly plastic is World Eaters and their plastic Berzerkers.

Deathwatch would be cool, and would give GW a way of marketing more of their conversion kits, for people to use to denote which Deathwatch Marines are from which Chapter, in conjunction with a Deathwatch kit providing everything else.

Encourage the use of multiple boxes from multiple lines, and you save having to bring out tonnes of stuff, and can even see sales rising as people buy tactical sets, Space Wolf sets, BA sets etc. to complete their DW army, and maybe take a liking to the remnants of the SW/BA kits they just butchered for bitz and start collecting them as a side army, maybe even have some custom background for their BA successor and their links to the Deathwatch.

How about any of the codexes that haven't been updated to 5th edition first, then we worry about IoM Codes 24 through 36.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I don’t want a Deathwatch Codex. The threat of Ward writing it and ruining all the beautiful FFG fluff would just be too high.

“Fear Watch-Captain Gustavo as he carves his name into the Hive Mind and roams the web way destroying Craftworlds!”

No... just no.

I want to sig this so bad. Can I? :3

I think we have plenty of armies as is. We should look into updating what we have right now to 5th/6th.

You may.

11. Squats

But Dark Angels are unique! They can take Plasma Cannons! Oh, wait.

But Dark Angels are unique! They can take Mortis Dreadnoughts! Oh, wait.

But Dark Angels are unique! They can take Terminators as troops! Oh, wait.

But Dark Angels are unique! They can take high level Chaplains! Oh, wait.

But Dark Angels are unique! They have a rich Native American cultural vibe that is totally still supported! Oh, wait.

But Dark Angels are unique! They can take Bikes as troops! Oh, wait.

3, 4, 6, 7, & 9 I'd like to see.

But my top ten would be slightly different.

10. White Scars
9. Iron Hands
8. Deathwatch
7. Skaven Expy
6. Lizardmen Expy
5 'Nids again
4. Orks
3. Tau
2. Cron
1. Chaos Legions

djphranq wrote:11. Squats

Also, this. Doesn't even need to be the same squats as before. Doesn't even need to be called Squats. Just do some space dwarves, dammit

Jesus... and people think all I do is complain. Way to completely miss the point ph34r.

The "American Indian" aspect of the Dark Angels has effectively been retconned into being a kind of parable told to recruits which changes as they become more and more initiated within the Chapter's mysteries.

The biggest problem with Dark Angels is that the uniqueness has been taken away and given to the "generic" Space Marine forces.

It's time to bring back some uniqueness.
They're the First Legion. Have them break out some archaic technology from the Vaults within the Rock.
Deathwing with "Devastator" Terminators packing Plasma Repeaters, swords which effectively are Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields which deal kind of "reflected damage", etc would be a fantastic way to start differentiating them.

Ravenwing with Outriders mounted upon what effectively are "gunships", Land Speeder Tempests, etc would be a good start.

But the real weak link in the army list as it stands is Azrael and the forces he brings to the table.
The man is the fething Supreme Grand Master of the Unforgiven Chapters and he can't even call in orbital bombardments? The man goes nowhere without his personal Battle Barge, The Sword of Caliban, and he somehow can't let his whole army Drop Pod or Deep Strike? He's fully initiated into the Deathwing and Ravenwing, yet he can't call them into service?

I've done up ideas for "combined Codices" where you'd get 3 or so Chapters per book, with each book focused upon an 'archetype' for the Space Marines--and think it could be done for both the Loyalists and Traitors.

Deathwatch though...I worry seeing them turned into an army by themselves. I don't want another Daemonhunters/Grey Knights.

Molten Butter wrote:Where's "Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus"?

My rule from the start was an army that, like all the marine variants, is already 70%, 80% done and would just need a few kits to flesh it out. That's alway why I put up a slew of MeQ suggestions.

IMHO the Adeptus Mech would need cyborg tech guard, hulking skitari, robots, walkers, electro priests, etc etc and don't really fit my self-imposed rules.

Some more ideas that do and are not MeQs...

#11 - Catachans: Cats are among the 3rd edition armies that once had codexes but lost them forever. But they can come back. An army of infiltrating, scouting, stealthy guardsmen would work. Cut out most of the heavy tanks from their army list, leave them with Valks and maybe Thunderbolts so they can call in Arclight strikes. It would be a tricky, fragile army that would have to keep moving to be wiped out.

#12 - Adeptus Arbites: Roman Legions are cool. Vikings are cool. Knights are cool. Y'know what else is cool? Cops. SWAT teams, hard boiled detectives, gunslinging sheriffs, all very very cool. So Carapace BS4 humans with hard as nails riot shield lines, backed up by APCs, penal legions, snipers, tarantula guns, psi judges, an undercover cop with twin pistols who pops up Callidus style... yeah, way cool.

#13 - Harliquins: The best damn Space Elf idea GW ever had. And the smallest most elite army ever. Flesh out some of the options, make a plastic Trouper set and you're good to go. Even I - Elf Hatah Numero Uno - would buy them. Plus they would get Land Raiders as a transport choice.

#14 - Assassins: Y'know what else is cool? Ninjas. Ninjas are awesome. They own Pirates. So where's my codex Ninja? WHERE? Death Cult assassins as troops, 36 varieties of assassin in the rest of the slots. NINJAS!

#15 - Kroot: Along with the Catachans they too are a lost army. Make a box of Kroot variants, give them some more giant Krootasaurus Rex monsterous creatures and let the Cannibal Chickens from Space loose upon the universe!

Kroot 'dex would be hella-fun, I'm not going to lie.

You are not giving Adeptus Arbites Tarantula Guns before I get them in my Guard Codex.

Since we're wishlisting though...

Codex: Wardens of the Gate.

Cadian Shock Troops, while the poster boys currently of the Imperial Guard...really aren't the best example of the Imperial Guard's methodology.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Jesus... and people think all I do is complain. Way to completely miss the point ph34r.

It is you who completely missed the point, as my post is totally in agreement with KK: Dark Angels have nothing unique left to them any more. His suggestions would all be better than another DA book.

Another Eye of Terror Codex and something like Armegeddon.

Seriously playing smaller battles that scale up to something -massive- just has a aura of sweet around it.

I would like to see a small campaign codex.

One on some backwater planet with a bunch of no name Commanders that has no real bearing on the fluff.


If nothing else, it would be fun to watch.

Tau, haha, who am I kidding. Seriously though. I want Tau.

More Marines? Ah, yeah, probably more marines.

In the grim darkness of the future there exists small groups of highly trained super soldiers. They fight with the might and ferocity of 500 men, watched in awe by regular men like angels carving death across a battle field. They are the elite fighting force of the Imperium, they are Space Marines, and they are everywhere.

I want my lost and dammed back!
Loyalist wise, Raven Guards! Who doesnt like sneaky ninja space marines!

My first interest in 40K was Dark Angels, so I personally would still like to see them, but actually done well (not as much as I'd like to see White Scars and new Plastic Space Marine and Scout Bikers, though!).

I think the biggest mistake with Dark Angels is focusing on their secret. This is the FIRST Legion, people! Not the second, or the sixth. FIRST! The book needs to deal with all of the big, dramatic victories and battles of the Dark Angels. It needs to make the regular companies compelling and interesting. The Chapter isn't Terminators and Bikers, plus blah marines. The Chapter should be ten Companies of battle-hardened Warrior-monks. Battle-brothers eternal whose armor is contempt.

The secret ONLY makes sense when the entire Chapter seems magnificent, heroic (if not really approachable) and majestic. The secrecy only makes sense if the battle-brothers trust each other with their lives, but unknowingly are kept in the dark. The 'dark secret' of the Dark Angels needs to be contrasted with the larger than life, epic grandeur of the Dark Angels Chapter.

Their bikers don't need to be 'better' than White Scars. They aren't more accomplished; they have their own agenda. Their terminators don't need to be 'better' than any other Chapter's terminators. They are still the same veterans; they just guard a dark and horrible secret.

The entire Codex needs to be written (if it is written) to establish the Dark Angels entire as a respected, even feared Chapter whose deeds ring down the ages.

Heck, not to minimize heresy, but other Chapters have suffered catastrophic losses and rebuilt. Istvaan, anyone? Battle for Macragge? Even if all the Imperium knows is that long ago, half of the Chapter fell in battle, they've had thousands of years to rebuild. It should be, for everyone but the Dark Angels, a minor footnote in history. A single, catastrophic loss in battle, yes, but one that happened a long time ago.

Out of a thousand Marines, only about what, 200 of them will even have any inkling of what is at stake. The rest of them, like the Ultramarines, or the Salamanders, or whoever, are going to be out there kicking ass and taking names. If you DO want to involve their dark secret, then it needs to involve the 80% of the Chapter that has no freaking idea about the secret, as well as the Ravenwing and the Deathwing.

The Dark Angels need to be portrayed as monks for a reason. To be secluded from worldly concerns (UNLIKE LUTHER). To be focused on the tasks before them (UNLIKE LUTHER). To be disciplined in mind and spirit (UNLIKE LUTHER). The Dark Angels need to be portrayed as serious, sober, focused warrior-monks. They should perhaps look down on undisciplined, uncouth Marines like the Space Wolves, empire-builders like the Ultramarines, indulgent fanatics like the Black Templars, artists (and highly strung emotional types) like the Blood Angels, and sentimentalists like the Salamanders.

You could portray the Dark Angels as seeing themselves as chosen for a higher calling; being transformed into a post-human built for the act of war. They might see human obsessions and concerns as things that should be put aside, and a more pure focus maintained.

They also need to be written so that the average Dark Angel trusts and endorses the behavior of the Chapter. As it is, what does a regular Tactical Marine think when his commander pulls the entire force out of a battle for some private agenda? Instead, the Dark Angels need to 'understand' (even if they don't know what is really going on) when they are reassigned. They might be trained to view themselves as the tip of the spear, or the Angels of Death. "We arrive and turn the tide. That is all. Lesser men can see to the aftermath." They might be trained (as the Lion evidently was) to have a great, and particular, grasp of tactics. Quick, surgical, tactical strikes might be a common method of war, and utilized all the time, rather than just when the Fallen are sought.


Long answer, I know. But what I want to see is any Codex other than a well-written, well-though out Dark Angels Codex. We don't need another Bathrobe Marines with Terminators and Bikers book.

Imperial Fists? Really? The very image of a codex Marine chapter? God no. I love my Crimson Fists and I wouldn't want them or anyone else to have a new Marine codex. As the owner of entirely too many Marine armies, we don't need any more loyalist Marine books. Now a Chaos Legions one, that I'm all for. Aside from them and something like LatD/Genestealer cults/Adeptus Arbites I don't want any new armies in the game. GW takes long enough to update existing ones.

I vote none of those. There are enough damn marines in the game as it is.

1. Tau
2. Eldar
3. Chaos Marines/Legions
4. Chaos Daemons
5. Orks

omerakk wrote:I vote none of those. There are enough damn marines in the game as it is.

1. Tau
2. Eldar
3. Chaos Marines/Legions
4. Chaos Daemons
5. Orks

well, has to be a IoM dex after Necron so those are out. I'd like to see some kind of non Marine non guard human codex. Mechanicus or Arbites would be interesting.

Chaos Legions, for the love of all that is holy.

I miss my basilisks :(

I've personally always loved the dark angels models, think deathwing terminators can look absolutely amazing once painted up properly.

But theres some other codexs that I would like to see first.
1. Ad-Mech
2. Deathwatch
3. Chaos Legions
4. Tau
5. Crons
6. My personal favourite idea,
Codex Tanith First and only,