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Hello Dakka. Now, I recently got White Dwarf 380, and decided to ask what your opinion of the new Sisters of Battle rules are. So, what do you think of them?

Compared to the old Witch Hunter Codex, rubbish.

It's all rushed. In fact, I'm not sure why they even released it aside from the well-needed removal of the Allies rules.

Terrible. Absolute crap.

Yes, I have to agree with you all. I think that the only good stats in the "Codex" belong to Saint Celestine.

Well when your armies are more useful ground up and made into blood amulets, what do you expect?

In a word: Uninspired.

It's good for a laugh when you realize rules differ among the first and second half of the book. As if the entire release was rushed.. it's even worse when the rules between the two halves dont even match up!

Really? Well, why don't they release a Codex?

Codex is good, ruels are bad. + half of Sister army just gone...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ogryn wrote:Really? Well, why don't they release a Codex?

Like Blood Angels, first update then codex.

You play Sisters? Sorry to hear about your loss...

Sanon wrote:Well when your armies are more useful ground up and made into blood amulets, what do you expect?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD

Seconded.

I have not formed one, which is really no change from my opinion of their previous rules.

And what is your opinion of the previous rules?

The point being that I hadn't formed one of them either.

Forgive my feeble attempts at humour, it's late.

I don't like the new rules and I am not going to use them. I am still using my WH book if people don't like it they don't have to play me.

I like the changes they made for the most part, but it has a few bad points as well:

The things I liked:
6+ invuln for almost everything in the army is nice, not reilable, but better than nothing.

The Exorcists are nice as always and the only real change is that they got a 6+ invuln save now.

10 basic sisters for under 150 points, kind of elite/Horde hybrid, with a 3+ armor save...

The things I did not like:
No more space Marine allies.

Penitent engines are still as weak as ever and die usually before making it across the field

I'll have a better run-down once I've played a bit more with them, but some things have worked and not worked so far. All in all, it isn't actually that much different when it hits the table. We got crappier in some respects (squad/wargear flexibility, Faith, etc...) but we're much better at Close Combat than we used to be and can still dish out a lot of punishment with the same short-range firepower tactics.

Really, was it ever about being on par with Grey Knights? Sisters players know what we're doing: tactics before stats. I think we're still perfectly viable, just not point and click. Fine with me. When I beat my opponent, he can't cry 'cheese' and it will be that much more satisfying. Given the cost of the models, nobody is going to be starting up a new army any time soon and the most of the players will be Sisters stalwarts who, like me, will find that they still handle fine, they just aren't flashy on paper. I am trying out a few neat tricks though, this weekend involving the new unit options. They're there if you look for them; not much, but potentially fun surprises.

The main concern I have is that, despite saying "read all about the new miniatures and rules" on the bleeding cover, they didn't release any! It's a bit of a joke that the prices went up. If I wanna update my squad to have another flamer, it'll cost me $20 for the single model. That's far more crippling to honing a quality list than the rules or general.

All this time I've been trying to convince myself that it was attention being paid to my favored army, and that it was good because of that.

But... that's pretty much the best thing I've been able to say about it, though I do like that Celestine is a viable option now.

Lots of stuff got nerfed, lots of nifty stuff got taken away. We no longer have our Blessed Weapons - which I really enjoyed using - or our Book of St. Lucius - which I managed to get by without using for the nearly 2 years I'd been playing Sisters of Battle, and had JUST started to get into using. I miss the Allies rules, as it had meant I could support my Hellfire Guard - or maybe even "my" Hellfire Marines - with my Sisters of the Flame. I liked the concept of Imperial Guard backed up by Sisters of Battle, as the mix of aesthetics was very pleasant.

I like that Retributors are a bit more useful now, as I did always like Retributors with Heavy Bolters - one of my first WH40k RPs cast me as a Sister Superior leading a squad of Retributors with Heavy Bolters.

The main thing I don't like is the lack of variety of "viable" builds. It's basically Jacobus+posse, a few squads of Battle Sisters, and max out Dominions/Seraphim and Exorcists. Any leftover points then go into paying for Saint Celestine and more scoring Troops units. It's just very bland to have such minor variations on the current lists - though I'll admit that my knowledge is almost a month old - and to have very nifty stuff like Repentia and Celestians be considered useless.

I'll admit I don't have to follow the current lists, because I really only play with one person who lets me write all her lists. But still, I strive to improve myself where I can, and that includes optimizing my lists - and my opponent's lists.

It's part of what made me consider starting up with a second game system - that game system was based around synergy, where everything could be potentially useful, so long as the strategy employed in game and in choosing units was internally consistent and a viable strategy.

It's not that I have something against the somewhat limited choices of Sisters units, as they cover the fundamentals - basic squads, fast squads, special weapons squads, heavy weapons squads, elite squads, command squads, and close combat squads. I'd prefer if there were really a difficult choice in what to bring that depended upon your preferred playstyle.

If that was too long to get a coherent point out of, I'll just say that I don't like the rules changes much anymore. (As we had lots of useful stuff taken away or nerfed and the useful stuff that was added - Jacobus and Battle Conclaves - are things that we're likely to see in each and every Sisters army from now till a proper Codex.)

Repentia are far from useless, you should give them a try. Running them behind rhinos provides some pretty scary-cool support to your Battle Sisters. I've only played a handful of games myself, but they exceeded expectations.

Johan Chill wrote:Repentia are far from useless, you should give them a try. Running them behind rhinos provides some pretty scary-cool support to your Battle Sisters. I've only played a handful of games myself, but they exceeded expectations.

Ahh, excellent, because I went back and wrote up a non-competitive list to play against my regular opponent's non-competitive list, and mine included Repentia. ^_^

I've been a Sisters players ever since I started playing 40K about 4 years ago right before 5th edition came out. I have to say the codex is not as good as the previous codex. There are some gems to be found in it for sure, but it does not rate up against other 5th edition codices. I could list my all specific gripes, but the list is long and I would hate to bore you all. Instead I will say what I do like. Dominions are great especially if you can get their act of faith to work. I like their ability to Scout move or Outflank, when combined with Exorcists they can really help demech an opponent quickly. The Battle Conclave is also ace. Sisters have long needed a very killy close combat unit. My only real lament about it is the 75 point minimum tax on the unit though I do wish it was actual Sisters unit that coudl do that kind of damage in close combat.

Ultimately though, this was a poor outing for the new codex. Their was nothing in the codex that made me say "Wow!" like in every other new 5th edition codex. Its not exciting, new, or interesting in the least bit. I'm goign to play it, but I'm not happy about what we have. It seems like most of the cool stuff in the old codex was removed and Sisters were turned into marines ligth for real. They don't even seem to have a real identity in game or do anything particularly well.

They are a solid army that is more competitive than they've ever been. Although they have only two strong builds (pretty much mech and horde), either is capable of winning against any matchup and two good builds is more than some armies.

Not quite solid, though there were a few bad trade offs this new codex only seems to try to promote the existing Immolator spam armies. Then at the same time tries to drive away from it with the changes to it...

I'm not a fan to all the changes in the book, but there are some alright ones like the cheaper vehicles, 6+ save on the vehicles and free smoke launchers. Basically the most noticeable is the SoB rhino is better than it was...

The main problem with it would be to expect something so great after so long, and out of a WD update too. More or less it seems it existed solely to give the GK book pure control of the Inquisition and at the same time remove some things the non-SoB players would be complaining about (*cough*BoSL*cough*).

Though I'll admit I'd rather they ass around with the faith system in a WD codex rather than have a mangled faith system for the next 10 years.

DarknessEternal wrote:They are a solid army that is more competitive than they've ever been. Although they have only two strong builds (pretty much mech and horde), either is capable of winning against any matchup and two good builds is more than some armies.

Most Sisters units crumble in assault like never before. I'm not just armchairing it either, I have actually played with this new codex more than a few times. I've won with as well as lost. I'm not saying it's that its hopelessly crippled but its much harder to win with it in my opinion.

andrewm9 wrote:
Most Sisters units crumble in assault like never before.

Many armies have this problem and work around it.

Also, quantity is a kind of quality.

I think they have to be THE most over powered codex in the whole game

I think their pretty good, their given a bad press but over all the codex isnt half bad. it has a few decent combos and lets face it, miss celestine has to be most cost effective HQ at the moment.

I'm looking forward to the new codex when it finally comes out as seeing as this is only really a test codex the new ones bound to be better.

or it could just be that i love sisters of battle. either way I like the new dex.

andrewm9 wrote:The Battle Conclave is also ace. Sisters have long needed a very killy close combat unit. My only real lament about it is the 75 point minimum tax on the unit though I do wish it was actual Sisters unit that coudl do that kind of damage in close combat.

That much is true. Aren't the Celestians supposed to be the Canoness' bodyguard? How do they guard her? Wait, there was the Praesidium Prot-... oh right, it's gone now, as is my ability to field the Celestian Superior as her commander's Shield Bearer, mimicking the legend of Saint Katherine.
Wish Celestians or at least their Superior could buy Storm Shields... Speaking of CC, why the initiative drop of the Seraphim? Granted, they're not a particularly melee-focused unit, but their background always acted as if they were. Up until now this was at least marginally represented in their stats. Gets more irritating when you realize that off-the-mill Preachers still have I4.

Now, I still have to actually play the new rules, but judging from several reviews they are at least playable/winnable (!) - it's just that we lost so much unique stuff so that some of the "look and feel" got lost. I'm all for detaching the Inquisition from the SoB (they should get their own WD Minidex as potential allies for every Imperial army imo), but was it really necessary to remove so much SoB stuff as well? I'm just waiting to see the Blessed Weapon or the Protectiva pop up in some Marine Codex... Oh wait, I almost forgot the Relic Blade.
Lastly, I feel the "purity/anti-psyker" touch in the rules is gone as well. Yeah, 1d6 invul is more allroundish and nice for vehicles, but the psychic defence just felt more fitting.

I don't usually link 1d4chan due to the massive discrepancies between useful and trollish content, but the unit analysis posted there seems pretty neat.

I quite like the new rules. I am actually starting Sisters after I finish my Tau and daemons.