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I'd rather have the current version at their dirt cheap price.

DarknessEternal wrote:I'd rather have the current version at their dirt cheap price.

/shrug

I'm not using them again in this edition, so it doesn't matter to me. It has been a long time since I've used them purely on their own merits (3rd edition?). I'd love for them to be best in slot again. Right now, Doms outclass them in my list. If they were elite, maybe I could fit them in.

I would like to see them become a cross between stern guard and assault marines. Give them special ammo with their TL bolt pistols giving them mobility and fire power, but with a limited range so they are not too powerful.

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:I would like to see them become a cross between stern guard and assault marines. Give them special ammo with their TL bolt pistols giving them mobility and fire power, but with a limited range so they are not too powerful.

I'd rather have something new and different rather than Marines Lite (tm).

DarknessEternal wrote:I'd rather have the current version at their dirt cheap price.

I'd rather play Malifaux than play 5th edition with sisters

Spiku wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:I'd rather have the current version at their dirt cheap price.

I'd rather play Malifaux than play 5th edition with sisters

Doors over there. --->

Don't let the door hit you where the Emperor split you.

pretre wrote:Doors over there. --->

Don't let the door hit you where the Emperor split you.

Didn't say I'd rather finish writing statements for clients than post on a topic about things I have insight to~

My bad then.

The door is actually right here.



Back on topic, I'm finishing painting up some new vehicles I got for my SoB. Replacing the 8-10 year old converted exorcists I have with actual models and adding some TL-MM immos into the force. The last of my old Rhinos are being retired. :(

I'll be bringing the girls to a local 1750 tournament (Guardian Cup!) and putting them through their paces. That will give me a pretty good idea of how much I enjoy / can win with them in a real world environment. Garage games only tell me so much.

What list will you be using for the tourney?

(also, I know thatdoor)

Celestine
Uriah with 3 Crusaders, 6 DCA in a Rhino
Repentia (5)
Sister Squad (10) - Melta/MM, Chainsword in a Rhino (hijacked by Repentia)
Sister Squad (10) - Melta/HF, Chainsword in a Rhino
Dominions (5) - Flamer x2, Chainsword/CombiMelta in a TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) - Flamer x2, Chainsword/CombiMelta in a TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) - Melta x2, Chainsword/Melta Bombs in a TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

Definately scared for your troop choices; it's one of the few occasions I'd suggest getting out some Retributor bodies to give your repentia a vehical, even at the cost of one exorcist.

Or is it only one scenario for the whole tourney?

Let me know how the repentia work out, I would be scared to run with only two troop choices though.

pretre wrote:Celestine
Uriah with 3 Crusaders, 6 DCA in a Rhino
Repentia (5)
Sister Squad (10) - Melta/MM, Chainsword in a Rhino (hijacked by Repentia)
Sister Squad (10) - Melta/HF, Chainsword in a Rhino
Dominions (5) - Flamer x2, Chainsword/CombiMelta in a TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) - Flamer x2, Chainsword/CombiMelta in a TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) - Melta x2, Chainsword/Melta Bombs in a TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

Is your plan to play for annhilation regardless of objectives? It can work certainly, buts not reliable becuase there are armies who are simply too tough to be blown off the map by an army like Sisters

Yeah without the GRINDING mission, you're in a really weak choice with just 2 troops, and one without armoured vehicle protection

Agreed, troops are an issue, but adding +1 sisters squad really gets you nowhere/nothing other than scoring. Keep in mind that I can choose to reserve or leave the sisters in Rhinos and not really lose much.

I've also been playing with lists with a third troops choice, but it is rough at low points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other list I was considering was:
Celestine
Uriah with 2 Crus, 6 DCA in Rhino
Repentia (5)
Sisters (10) - MM/Melta, Chainsword
Sisters (10) - HF/Melta, Chainsword - Rhino
Sisters (10) - HB/Melta, Chainsword - TL-MM Immo
Doms (5) - 2xFlamer, Chainsword, CombiM - TL-MM Immo
Doms (5) - 2xFlamer, Chainsword, CombiM - TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

Not awesome, but something.

I do have to say I don't feel the repentia are bringing you anything extra, but I can tell you wouldn't be packing them if you didnt like them ;3

The sister units do actually let you force control of lanes somewhat; as long as you focus on their long range with your dominions and exorcists, even when they get cleaned up you have control of their troop movement with the MM and melta sister units with leadership enforceable.

Do report back, but make sure to keep an eye on how you feel you would have done with another layout; whenever I played with unsure lists, I would use a different colour dice set for all the units I was thinking of switching out to see how they compared if I didn't have them ;D (my retributor exorcist would always roll 4-6's for shots of course, just to screw that)

2nd list:
if doms had meltas, I'd love that ;3

Repentia give me parking lot threat. I'm specifically avoiding Doms having meltas to give the list some duality. If everything is melta, it sucks when you run into horde. Afterall, I have a lot of Melta in that list.

I will let you know though.

The nice thing about hoards, is that DCA's cut through them with 5 attacks, and often get to use the FNP vs them. Celestine loves a Hoard to, because she undermines the anti elite effect of knowing you will kill with 1000 cuts.

Though I freely admit I keep a unit of seraphim for my flamers vs hoard

Also, Repentia are in there because it is hard to spend small points values.

pretre wrote:Also, Repentia are in there because it is hard to spend small points values.

That has been my biggest hurdle in list building. I often times come to a point in building where I have 90 points left which leaves a left but not enough to buy a real unit. Most codices you coudl buy some extra troops (Usually a + in 5th), but not Sisters whomust spend 125+ with this codex. Sometimes I plug it with Repentia who usually end up dead before I do anything with them and sometimes I buy extra armor for a bunch of my transports. I'm finding the extra armor of more benefit so far.

Spiku wrote:

Amerikon wrote: I don't think the choice is so clear. Rets are a strong option by themselves and the ability to "double up" and get a MM Immolator in the same org slot (for only 30 more pts than the Exorcist) is a pretty compelling argument.

I disagree. We have a -very- limited number of faith points to use each turn, and they are best spent ensuring that your FA get to make use of their re-rolls. Exorcists need to be fielded in multiples to ensure an average curve on missiles, provide moving long range ap1 s8, as well as draw anti-tank, which would be focused on the immolator/rhino push. The lack of movement on the rets means that it is easier to deny full firing lanes for them, and you are entirely reliant on cover to keep them up. The exorcists let you deal with armour at range, or drop muliple instant kill shots on harder to reach targets; retributors bring nothing we haven't got covered in some way, and more exorcists is more insurance. The faith pool is a huge thing to consider, and the rets have never performed noticeably in the games I have played with them; we have flamers for anti troop, we have meltas up front, and I want those faith points on re-rolls on my specials, and for keeping my objective units passing leadership tests

Faith point priority is army dependent. I like to take full Dominion squads with 4 meltas, so twin-linking isn't always critical for that unit. Seras desperately need their re-rolls to wound but they've got a 75% chance of getting their act off right out of the box. Obviously rallying a broken Battle Sister squad is priority 1 but that doesn't happen too often. So in my army I've usually got a point or two to give to my Retributor squads.

3 Exorcists are equal in points to 3 Retributor squads and 2 MM Immolators. I think the latter is probably the better deal. The Retributors are more flexible. They're good at most of what the Exorcists are good at and all of things the Exorcist isn't well suited for. The only real loss is against T4, multi-wound enemies, but I've got so much S8 AP1 in my army already that I don't really miss it.

Also deflecting fire away from the transports is nice but you can get the same effect by adding more transports (MM Immolators from the Ret squads). That brings up another point. Exorcists are fire magnets. They're almost always the highest priority target on the board for our opponents and they're very easy to neutralize. (85% of the time it gets glanced or penned the Exorcist can't shoot.) Rets are seen as less of a target and they're harder to completely neutralize in spite of the fact that they're just as powerful as the Exorcist.

Amerikon wrote:
Faith point priority is army dependent. I like to take full Dominion squads with 4 meltas, so twin-linking isn't always critical for that unit. Seras desperately need their re-rolls to wound but they've got a 75% chance of getting their act off right out of the box. Obviously rallying a broken Battle Sister squad is priority 1 but that doesn't happen too often. So in my army I've usually got a point or two to give to my Retributor squads.

3 Exorcists are equal in points to 3 Retributor squads and 2 MM Immolators. I think the latter is probably the better deal. The Retributors are more flexible. They're good at most of what the Exorcists are good at and all of things the Exorcist isn't well suited for. The only real loss is against T4, multi-wound enemies, but I've got so much S8 AP1 in my army already that I don't really miss it.

Also deflecting fire away from the transports is nice but you can get the same effect by adding more transports (MM Immolators from the Ret squads). That brings up another point. Exorcists are fire magnets. They're almost always the highest priority target on the board for our opponents and they're very easy to neutralize. (85% of the time it gets glanced or penned the Exorcist can't shoot.) Rets are seen as less of a target and they're harder to completely neutralize in spite of the fact that they're just as powerful as the Exorcist.

Full doms at 4 specials means you're losing the immolator MM option, which means you have to double team if you want to pop a vehical and kill whats inside, I certainly wouldn't take that option; immos draws priority too, and has a huge double die pen option. The 3 retributors taken without ablative wounds are easy to drop, and once again cannot move, that is huge. When you have immo's scoutinging with low ablative wound units attached to them, you have a certain amount of firepower concentrated up table, anything spared on exorcists plays further into that, and the retributors will lose effectiveness from any amassed fire, rather than things for taking AV. Taking flat rets is once again forcing you to funnel faith points, and you have a random amount, I'd point out something too:

A) 4 melta sisters all shooting one vehicle, is ensuring that some of those points have gone to waste given you have the re-rolls, this is adding more effective cost to your retributors

B) If you are firing at non-armour units, you want to use the re-roll act to ensure that you you are landing the tasty hits re:elites, or the flat bolter hits as you have 6

Rending retributors are going to be 36", that is a massive drop on the range and safety range in exorcists, especially given the movement; you're also making sure that you've got nearly no ablative wounds on them. Your doms of course will get charged by basic troops to remove them, but we all know that; meaning the templates are free for your rets.



I mean more power to you if that's how you want to play, and I adore the heavy bolter sisters, they have a particularly impressive look, they just don't place. Losing up field immos which let you double up on single targets without costing another squad, putting albative models in the scout range where they are going to be suffering more wounds anyway, and not having ablative wounds stacked on your personal favoured long range to keep up the rending, whilst adding even more faith options, are all things that just cost too much in a -bad- army.

Certainly I've tried 3 ret squads; mostly because 1 exorcist is never enough, so when I went to 2 retributors I just went straight to 3; both ablative wounds option and immo spam, but the key thing was that, essentially, they brought nothing that wasn't matched by exorcists in plurality. For what I found Retributors could provide, you might as well take MM immolator + flamer doms, to re-roll flamer wounds with several hard melta popping and dom torching of all unit types, and keep the 3 exorcists for armour hitting and elite breaking.

Spiku wrote:
Full doms at 4 specials means you're losing the immolator MM option, which means you have to double team if you want to pop a vehical and kill whats inside, I certainly wouldn't take that option;

This doesn't bother me. If you've only got 5 ladies you're not going to put much hurt on whatever is in a transport. On top of that the move and fire restriction of the Immolator along with its lack of fire points makes it, in my opinion, a poor transport option. What it is though, is a good cheap threat.

Spiku wrote:
immos draws priority too, and has a huge double die pen option.

That's exactly what you want. Who cares if you lose a MM Immo? They're there to get in the way and to make your opponent divert their attention. If your throw-away units are attracting fire then you're doing it right.

Spiku wrote:
The 3 retributors taken without ablative wounds are easy to drop, and once again cannot move, that is huge. When you have immo's scoutinging with low ablative wound units attached to them, you have a certain amount of firepower concentrated up table, anything spared on exorcists plays further into that, and the retributors will lose effectiveness from any amassed fire, rather than things for taking AV.

They're not that easy to drop. They should be well out of range of any small arms, which means your opponent has to divert something big if they want to take them out in the early part of the game. Pie plates are probably the most dangerous thing for your Rets. Even still, you should be in cover so you'll still get some sort of save. And yes it sucks that you can lose a few of them. But what's worse, only being able to make half of your shots, or not being able to make any? The Exorcist is an all-or-nothing proposition, it will never be able to fire at 50% or 75%.

Spiku wrote:
Taking flat rets is once again forcing you to funnel faith points, and you have a random amount, I'd point out something too:

A) 4 melta sisters all shooting one vehicle, is ensuring that some of those points have gone to waste given you have the re-rolls, this is adding more effective cost to your retributors

B) If you are firing at non-armour units, you want to use the re-roll act to ensure that you you are landing the tasty hits re:elites, or the flat bolter hits as you have 6

If I'm shooting at a vehicle with 4 meltas, I'm not going to bother twin-linking unless I've got a bunch of extra points. If I'm firing at heavy infantry then I'll certainly want to twin link. This just goes back to faith point priority. The Rets won't need to rend every turn and there will always be turns where you can't get off every act that you want.

Spiku wrote:
Rending retributors are going to be 36", that is a massive drop on the range and safety range in exorcists, especially given the movement; you're also making sure that you've got nearly no ablative wounds on them. Your doms of course will get charged by basic troops to remove them, but we all know that; meaning the templates are free for your rets.

The loss of 12" of range is notable, but the "safety range" for Rets is different than for an Exorcist. Most people aren't going to waste lascannon, missile launcher, or autocannon shots on your girls. If they do, then that's another bonus for you. It's security through obscurity. The enemy is more worried about trying to nab your Immolators or Rhinos and the stuff that's in range in turns one and two aren't going to be anti-infantry weapons. (Except IG artillery).

We don't have to keep beating this dead horse. There are upsides and downsides to both units. I just don't think the Exorcist is the last word on Sisters' Heavy Support.

The "we don't have to beat this dead horse" is a bit amusing comment to me, given I had said that Rets are how you want to play so more power to you to, and then closed saying I had tried rets myself but didn't get results as an end to the discussion as all mechanics had been discussed. I certainly wouldn't say dead horse as in each itteration more basis of our views could be expressed, and the more people discuss their basis, or broach different views on the value of units in relation to their working alongside the army as a whole, the better. Still, I wouldn't have responded at all but I do want to clarify two things that I seem to not explained clearly, rather than do things like respond to the cost of your units doubling up vs explode/clear or anything like that; Rather than draw you in on something, I'm just clearing my bits up:

"immos draws priority too, and has a huge double die pen option."
This was in reference to taking 3 immos with your dominions, not taking another immo with the retributor; the point that you can force 3 important targets right into the top field.

"given the rerolls"
In point A), I should have proofed a little better, as I was referring to the fact that every shot over goes to waste, and has cost you taking other units, and that any -crucial- target, you should be re-rolling on (when I started writing A), it was point B)'s content and switched)


Like I said, more power to you for playing how you want ;3

Can I please get a link to this update, or where I can download the rules? I had almost no interest in the sisters until my girlfriend got an inquisitor model from a friend and now shes interested.

You can't use inquisitors with sisters anymore, they were removed in the update.

The update is not for legal download right now, it is in white dwarf 380.

I wouldn't recommend it ;3

Spiku wrote:You can't use inquisitors with sisters anymore, they were removed in the update.

The update is not for legal download right now, it is in white dwarf 380.

I wouldn't recommend it ;3

Frak now I have to go get a stupid GK codex, thanks for the help. Cheers mate.

I'm sure someone on the internet has SCRIBeD it somewhere. This kind of thing .COMes up quite a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Came up with a third list that commits the heresy of dropping Celestine. The hard part was filling points for the 40 left over. Random extra combis and upgrades to HF because there wasn't anything else to take.

Uriah Jacobus with 9 Henchmen - Rhino

Sister Squad (10) w/ Multimelta/Meltagun, Chainsword/Bolt Pistol - Rhino
Sister Squad (10) w/ Heavy Flamer/Melta, Bolt Pistol/Combi-Melta - Rhino
Sister Squad (10) w/ Heavy Flamer/Melta, Bolt Pistol/Combi-Melta - Rhino

Dominions (5) 2x Flamer, Bolt Pistol/Combi-melta - Immo (TL-MM)
Dominions (5) 2x Flamer, Bolt Pistol/Combi-melta - Immo (TL-MM)
Dominions (5) 2x Melta, Bolter/Bolt Pistol/Meltabombs - Immo (TL-MM)

Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist



Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW The really hard part about the new sisters codex is filling small points gaps. When I dropped Celestine, I ended up taking the combis and HF rather than being able to do anything else. It isn't like SM where I can just throw in a Land Speeder or something. Everything is 90-150 points. Nothing is cheaper (except a preacher).

If I drop the HF to HB and drop the combis, it leaves me with 35 (I can scrounge 15 extra dropping a Henchman), but nothing to buy for 35-50 points once everyone has a ride. I guess I could get the dominion Immos extra armor, but that just feels like a waste.

Dozer blades for all 7 Rhinos/Immos? 5 HK Missiles?

stick more guns on the exorcist ;D

Nothing wrong with dropping Celestine reaaaally; though it's very, -very- hard to evaluate the disruption Celestine grants;

what are the heavy flamers for in the sister units?

Spiku wrote:stick more guns on the exorcist ;D

Nothing wrong with dropping Celestine reaaaally; though it's very, -very- hard to evaluate the disruption Celestine grants;

what are the heavy flamers for in the sister units?

I completely agree. She's a big ol' mindfark.

Objective cleansing and mid armor work. HF is a toolbox gun. It does everything pretty decent. Plus it soaked some points.