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AL MoP sounds interesting, BUT, summoning is iffy at best in many cases, and whilest the MoP can migitate that somewhat and has not the urge to detonate as soon as he attempts it but i am still not sure it works well enough.
Or maybee i am not seeing the bigger synergy.

Infiltrating MoP Summoning would be interesting if it didn’t rely on at least an average roll on your psychic test, a not above average roll on your opponent’s psychic test, and them not having a hard Counter like WE, BT, SoB

…I might try Advancing my WB MoP, then dropping thirty Pink Horrors that (mostly) can’t be DtW’d. That way, their firepower isn’t diminished by advancing themselves, or my losing first turn

Niiru wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

Totally not worth it. WTs (other than EC) need to deep strike with a CL for the Host Raptorial trait

This is exactly why I'm seriously considering allying some EC with my AL, although I'm also considering Night Lords as they have a 3D6 charge strat that also sounds good.

Not sure which strat is better tbh, the EC or the NL one. 3D6 vs changing any dice to a 6. Though the EC one works on terminators too, which probably makes it a winner regardless.

It's a shame you can't mix-and-match abilities. Being able to Alpha Legion deepstrike a squad of 10x thunder hammer chosen, and then us the EC strat to charge with them, would actually bring some of the Chaos units up to the loyalist marines power level.

As a BA player, I can tell you the NL strat has more room to sting you - EC seems superior, and when combined with a Host Raptorial chaos lord, it's practically a guaranteed charge. NL may get you further, but beware Tzeentch's curse when you roll triple 1.

Thinking about putting MSU of beserkers in a flyer. I forget the name but it has t7, 16w, 3+ and -1 to hit. Combined with a Dark Apostle's benediction that could up to a -2. All for around 300pts for 20 models to be transported.

In support either iron warriors las havocs in a devestation battery, or perhaps some heldrakes to zoom up with the beserkers.

But then again 16w, 3+, -2 to hit on t1 still probably isnt reliable enough. But the flyers are more able to drop your boys off within 9" if needed.

Maybe I'll splurge and get the thunderhawk.
30w, t9, -2 to hit and enemies subtract 12" from guns shooting at it.
On average it would take something like 200 battlecannon shots to take it down (no rerolls hitting on 5s, so more like 150 with rr).

Buuut it's also 1300 points or so.

weaver9 wrote:
Thinking about putting MSU of beserkers in a flyer. I forget the name but it has t7, 16w, 3+ and -1 to hit. Combined with a Dark Apostle's benediction that could up to a -2. All for around 300pts for 20 models to be transported.

In support either iron warriors las havocs in a devestation battery, or perhaps some heldrakes to zoom up with the beserkers.

I've been considering this as well - I think it's the Storm Eagle Assault ship or whatever. Filling that with zerkers, augmenting it with the Dark Apostle's prayer, and zipping that thing into enemy lines does seem pretty gnarly. Perhaps a couple of Heldrakes acting as escorts could be pretty intense.

CSM now at 11 pts.
So i think we won't get a legion equivalent?

Also worth it now or still not good enough?

Not Online!!! wrote:
CSM now at 11 pts.
So i think we won't get a legion equivalent?

Also worth it now or still not good enough?

Nope. You're still only taking them as Red Corsairs for the CP and that's literally it.

Hey guys... I've got my hands on 3x Obliterators.

How do you run them? I'd imagine mark of slaneesh for the double-shooting strat...

Any good combos to maximize defense as well since their weapons is only 24"??

Drop them t2 as iw, buff them with technovirus, veterans for a 4 cp super kill unit. Or run them as AL and conceal them for protection.

IW Oblits can use Cannon Fodder cultists to avoid shooting damage

Nurgle Oblits can hang out near a Gnarlmaw for super saves (many Counter-plays exist) plus ability to fall back & shoot

The Gnarlmaw additionally opens up CD strats - Possession is hilarious - and T1 advance : WT advance : charge for Daemon Engines

Slaaneshi Oblits can get a cheeky 6+ resuscitation off an Infernal Enrapturess, who sabotages psykers and also unlocks DE advance & charge

If you really like Daemonkin, a GUO can do a 4+ resuscitation plus heal D3W, very expensive for that but it’s also a high tier fire magnet

 Drakeslayer wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

Totally not worth it. WTs (other than EC) need to deep strike with a CL for the Host Raptorial trait

This is exactly why I'm seriously considering allying some EC with my AL, although I'm also considering Night Lords as they have a 3D6 charge strat that also sounds good.

Not sure which strat is better tbh, the EC or the NL one. 3D6 vs changing any dice to a 6. Though the EC one works on terminators too, which probably makes it a winner regardless.

It's a shame you can't mix-and-match abilities. Being able to Alpha Legion deepstrike a squad of 10x thunder hammer chosen, and then us the EC strat to charge with them, would actually bring some of the Chaos units up to the loyalist marines power level.

As a BA player, I can tell you the NL strat has more room to sting you - EC seems superior, and when combined with a Host Raptorial chaos lord, it's practically a guaranteed charge. NL may get you further, but beware Tzeentch's curse when you roll triple 1.

So making one dice a 6 is better than rolling 3D6 (for a 9" charge from deepstrike)?

Problem with having to take a Host Raptorial chaos lord, is that it changes the 1CP cost for a deepstrike into a 3CP cost. 1CP is great, 3CP is way too expensive just to get one unit into melee. This is why I never even consider host raptorial (or any of the other vigilus special detachments), they're just way too expensive in CP for what they bring to the table, unless you are 100% building a list around them (eg. 3x 10man Talons squads, or bringing 5 daemon engines, or... I don't even remember what the others do).


I like Night Lords for the fluff (thought I do like EmpC too), and it's a tough call between them. NL having the 'no falling back for enemy' strat is handy, so is the 'turn off enemy aura' strat. EmpC get better charges and stronger Noise Marines (as troops, in fact).

Tricky to think it all through.

Why not both. NL has some very potent strats/abilities not replicable anywhere else. Add to that the ability to threaten a much larger range with mok raptors with icon allowing them to easily tag multiple units. NL also have 2 ways to increase charge range and increase hit rolls of any 2 units. Even csm can become fairly threatening hitting on 2s with dttfe triggering on 4s..

EC are not nearly as assaulty but have one almost infallible charge a supremely good redeploy strat and d2 assault troops to destroy primaris and even mech.

Ya I think I definitely want both.

dominuschao wrote:
Why not both. NL has some very potent strats/abilities not replicable anywhere else. Add to that the ability to threaten a much larger range with mok raptors with icon allowing them to easily tag multiple units. NL also have 2 ways to increase charge range and increase hit rolls of any 2 units. Even csm can become fairly threatening hitting on 2s with dttfe triggering on 4s..

EC are not nearly as assaulty but have one almost infallible charge a supremely good redeploy strat and d2 assault troops to destroy primaris and even mech.

Ya I think I definitely want both.

I already have Alpha Legion, which gives the ability to deepstrike any unit (deepstriking noise marines behind enemy lines might be handy, or throwing a HQ somewhere unexpected), as well as making a unit untargetable and -2 to hit Lord Discordants. Shooting after falling back is nice too.

Alpha Legion, Night Lords and Emperors Children are the legions I like, and it's hard to narrow it down to just two to focus on haha.

You can always drop in a Patrol det if you just want a particular relic or stratagem.

Hey, I was thinking of trying Slaanesh Chaos Marines, anyone have any suggestions?

Niiru wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
Why not both. NL has some very potent strats/abilities not replicable anywhere else. Add to that the ability to threaten a much larger range with mok raptors with icon allowing them to easily tag multiple units. NL also have 2 ways to increase charge range and increase hit rolls of any 2 units. Even csm can become fairly threatening hitting on 2s with dttfe triggering on 4s..

EC are not nearly as assaulty but have one almost infallible charge a supremely good redeploy strat and d2 assault troops to destroy primaris and even mech.

Ya I think I definitely want both.

I already have Alpha Legion, which gives the ability to deepstrike any unit (deepstriking noise marines behind enemy lines might be handy, or throwing a HQ somewhere unexpected), as well as making a unit untargetable and -2 to hit Lord Discordants. Shooting after falling back is nice too.

Alpha Legion, Night Lords and Emperors Children are the legions I like, and it's hard to narrow it down to just two to focus on haha.

I'm in the same dilemma! But it's a tough call. I'm working on all 3 atm.. That gives superior redeploy, 3 units with potential boosted assaults, tons of disruption and lots of anti primaris weaponry. Plus untargetable oblits of course haha.

dominuschao wrote:

Niiru wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
Why not both. NL has some very potent strats/abilities not replicable anywhere else. Add to that the ability to threaten a much larger range with mok raptors with icon allowing them to easily tag multiple units. NL also have 2 ways to increase charge range and increase hit rolls of any 2 units. Even csm can become fairly threatening hitting on 2s with dttfe triggering on 4s..

EC are not nearly as assaulty but have one almost infallible charge a supremely good redeploy strat and d2 assault troops to destroy primaris and even mech.

Ya I think I definitely want both.

I already have Alpha Legion, which gives the ability to deepstrike any unit (deepstriking noise marines behind enemy lines might be handy, or throwing a HQ somewhere unexpected), as well as making a unit untargetable and -2 to hit Lord Discordants. Shooting after falling back is nice too.

Alpha Legion, Night Lords and Emperors Children are the legions I like, and it's hard to narrow it down to just two to focus on haha.

I'm in the same dilemma! But it's a tough call. I'm working on all 3 atm.. That gives superior redeploy, 3 units with potential boosted assaults, tons of disruption and lots of anti primaris weaponry. Plus untargetable oblits of course haha.

I've considered that, but souping up 3 different legions just feels... bad. If I played serious competitions I might consider it, but I only play with friends so I would prefer having a fun (decently powerful) fluffy list.

Alpha and Night Lords fit nicely, but the NL abilities are... ok, but compared to Emp.Children they seem lacklustre. Being able to give terminators a guaranteed charge (as well as bonus attacks) seems like it might be enough to turn a 10-man combi/axe terminator unit into something actually deadly.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Or maybe i am not seeing the bigger synergy.

Going back to summoning, I think the core advantage is you can call in whatever you see as most advantageous. So it's less about synergy than opportunity. What you'd decide to summon would probably be more contingent on the enemy's forces and the objectives/terrain than your own army.

The downside is the options are more or less limitless, so it gets complicated fast. There was a top 10 LVO list with ~600pts in summoning, the player basically had an entire tray of models he'd choose from based on what he wanted at the time. I think if you wanted to incorporate summoning into a CSM army, you need to restrict yourself to a few core choices. Otherwise you risk getting lost in the possibilities.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Hey, I was thinking of trying Slaanesh Chaos Marines, anyone have any suggestions?

EC have a weak Legion Trait, but their Noise Marines have had a decent buff with new Stratagems that, since they’re Troops, are self-funding. They can use Warp Talons to counter heavy OW without heavily investing in a specialist detachment, Plus, no doubt, the ‘Fulgrim is coming out in six months’ rumour has been reset again

WB have a terrible Legion Trait but their psykers and Possessed have had such a massive boost they’re (appropriately) worth considering if you fancy a Daemonkin list with lots of moving parts (potentially including a character who denies falling back, which is amazing when it works, and incidentally has nice synergy with melee EC allies)

IW have a mediocre Legion Trait but outstanding firepower, IMO their Slaaneshi Obliterators are probably going to be a major feature of the coming year’s metagame

AL have a strong Legion Trait and all sorts of moving parts that give your opponent a massive headache when you know what you’re doing, and Endless Cacophony suits them very well

Flawless Host are serious challengers to the World Eaters’ crown when it comes to CSM melee, they're like ruddy Genestealers in power armour

NL and BL (and CS) have little distinct stuff that especially screams Slaanesh

RC CP batteries can fit in pretty much any CSM list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also second @Niiru’s observation on EC Terminators being able to charge from DS - that’s a very interesting ability on a unit that can also take a load of plasma guns and arrive within double tap range

 lindsay40k wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also second @Niiru’s observation on EC Terminators being able to charge from DS - that’s a very interesting ability on a unit that can also take a load of plasma guns and arrive within double tap range

I'm worried this is a trap, because I'm really tempted to run a squad of terminators with actual melee weapons (like... 10 chain fists) because they can actually drop in, melt some chaff in one direction with combibolters, and then still get a guaranteed charge at another unit to murder hobo. They really seem to become worth their points when you can get two decent rounds of killing out of them all straight from deepstrike - something you could never do before now.

Niiru wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also second @Niiru’s observation on EC Terminators being able to charge from DS - that’s a very interesting ability on a unit that can also take a load of plasma guns and arrive within double tap range

I'm worried this is a trap, because I'm really tempted to run a squad of terminators with actual melee weapons (like... 10 chain fists) because they can actually drop in, melt some chaff in one direction with combibolters, and then still get a guaranteed charge at another unit to murder hobo. They really seem to become worth their points when you can get two decent rounds of killing out of them all straight from deepstrike - something you could never do before now.

I mean, i'd not pick the chainfists, for obvious reasons namely price, but depending on how the enemy built his field up you could such a squad as breakthrough unit.
Shoot bubblewrap infront of high priority target away, drop in termites, use said termites to further remove bubblewrap, use termites to assault high priority target.

If you manage to catch a knight, then you just got their worth back and have them standing around in enemy territory.
if you however didn't catch that high priority target because the enemy has more wrap or positioned better ( deeper) then you just wasted a huge ammount of points.

You can always just take a few chainfists, you don’t need to go overboard with them, just enough that any dreadnought types can’t efficiently counter them

I really want to make the BL pantheon strat work. Would it be overkill to take a decimator, give it all marks and pile the daemon buffs? Butcher cannons with tzeentch would be +1 to wound, nurgle locus would add one damge and khorne could add another shot on a 5 + via the crown and the previous +1 to wound and to add a cherry on top you would inclict -2 ld on a casualty. Which may help with slaanesh psyhic powers mortal wounds, but getting 3 buffs is alteady not bad

 Roknar wrote:
I really want to make the BL pantheon strat work. Would it be overkill to take a decimator, give it all marks and pile the daemon buffs? Butcher cannons with tzeentch would be +1 to wound, nurgle locus would add one damge and khorne could add another shot on a 5 + via the crown and the previous +1 to wound and to add a cherry on top you would inclict -2 ld on a casualty. Which may help with slaanesh psyhic powers mortal wounds, but getting 3 buffs is alteady not bad

I had similar thoughts with Oblits and concluded that, with no means to keep such a heavily invested unit alive (especially if you lose first turn) it’s always going to be a gimmick. It’s not long ago the meta was built to delete a Knight a turn. Pray for a non-Titanic keystone unit to be -1 to be hit and it’s still smoke

So, you’d have to build loads of redundancy into your list - have multiple units that you can have hulk out; basically, build a polytheist shooty Daemonkin list, BUT this means only one major unit a turn is actually going to benefit from the Daemonkin auras, which on balance probably isn’t as good as just having a load of Oblits and Defilers just reaping the aura off like a Nurgle Herald or Tzeentch’s Daemonspark with no CP buy-in (which Vect & GSC can just completely smash anyway)

 Roknar wrote:
I really want to make the BL pantheon strat work. Would it be overkill to take a decimator, give it all marks and pile the daemon buffs? Butcher cannons with tzeentch would be +1 to wound, nurgle locus would add one damge and khorne could add another shot on a 5 + via the crown and the previous +1 to wound and to add a cherry on top you would inclict -2 ld on a casualty. Which may help with slaanesh psyhic powers mortal wounds, but getting 3 buffs is alteady not bad

Dual butcher would be 130 pts right?
I guess if you wanted too, but imo thats a lot of eggs in a medicore basket.

The guys at the Nights at the Game Table Youtube channel pointed out an interesting combo for the WB.

Take a WB Chaos Lord with a jump pack and a thunderhammer. Give him the Exalted Possession WT so that he's a Daemon, with +1 S and +1 attack. Make him Nurgle, and ally in a Nurgle Daemon psyker. Have the psyker buff the Lord with Virulent Blessing (+1 to the wound roll, and any wound roll of 7+ does double damage). When he attacks, pop VotLW for another +1 to wound and Revered Hosts to add one to his thunderhammer's damage.

Upshot: When the Lord rolls a 5 or 6 to wound, his thunderhammer will punch out 8 damage. This baseline Lord will have 5 attacks that benefit from this combo. It can also get crazier. If you can figure out how to put Soultearer Portent on him, the super-damage goes off on a 4+. Diabolic Strength pushes his attacks up to 6.

Yeah I'm not impressed by that, mostly because we all knew there are multiple ways to make a suicide missile Lord.

Generally annoyed that Marines are made insanely reliable and deadly all over the table and we're the Rube Goldberg machine to make crap units average faction.

Not Online!!! wrote:
CSM now at 11 pts.
So i think we won't get a legion equivalent?

Also worth it now or still not good enough?

Umm, source for this?

Xirax wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
CSM now at 11 pts.
So i think we won't get a legion equivalent?

Also worth it now or still not good enough?

Umm, source for this?

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