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Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Tomsug wrote:


Obviously, there is no real plan. No surprise. All industry in Europe suffers a terible delay. Fkn covid destroied all supply chains, everybody are waiting for some material / spare parts / cargo capacity. It takes a year at least of fix it.

Keep calm, write to Santa and wait and have a spare Agrax in shelf.


But won't somebody think of the grooots?

/s
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Yeah, logistics is one of those underappreciated industries people only think of when everything goes wrong. The question is will this be a 1 or 2 week delay or month delay?

On other topics, got another game in with my deffskull triple killtank list and i'm seeing a very strong narrative developing. My opponent will take the midfield early game, get a lead on points then by the end of the game I have 2 killtanks rumbling around and they'll have one or two low strength units left. Last game I lost by around 20 points but in the last turn he had 5 warriors left and I had 2 tanks, 6 mek guns, a trukk, some grots and boyz left. (side not skorpek lords are bloody hard to budge.)

40k has become very infantry/objective/alpha move heavy. Honestly it's very interesting. I've not faced a castle in a long time, things actually move around and interact with one another as they try to take objectives and fufill secondaries. but the terrain styles do make it a bit tricky for non-fly tanks to get around.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






cody.d. wrote:
Yeah, logistics is one of those underappreciated industries people only think of when everything goes wrong. The question is will this be a 1 or 2 week delay or month delay?

On other topics, got another game in with my deffskull triple killtank list and i'm seeing a very strong narrative developing. My opponent will take the midfield early game, get a lead on points then by the end of the game I have 2 killtanks rumbling around and they'll have one or two low strength units left. Last game I lost by around 20 points but in the last turn he had 5 warriors left and I had 2 tanks, 6 mek guns, a trukk, some grots and boyz left. (side not skorpek lords are bloody hard to budge.)

40k has become very infantry/objective/alpha move heavy. Honestly it's very interesting. I've not faced a castle in a long time, things actually move around and interact with one another as they try to take objectives and fufill secondaries. but the terrain styles do make it a bit tricky for non-fly tanks to get around.


Thanks for sharing! Glad to hear the killtanks are living up to their name at least and decimating enemy forces. I've had a similar problem as you did, where their sheer size can be a problem when you have to get around big LoS blocking terrain to get to their ideal targets. Did you have the usual 1 bursta/2 giga shoota loadout?
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Yeah that's my preferred loadout. 1 for variety, 2 for the shear consistency of the dakka tanks. My local mates are all for the Burstas, but I swear game from game it's the dakka ones that pull their weight every shooting phase. Though in recent games I kept fluffing their melee with abysmal hit rates. Part of me is thinking about trying out the evil sunz versions, with VITS for that sweet accuracy buff, even though I adore the AP buff that all three can share if I need to focus fire on one target unit.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






cody.d. wrote:
Yeah that's my preferred loadout. 1 for variety, 2 for the shear consistency of the dakka tanks. My local mates are all for the Burstas, but I swear game from game it's the dakka ones that pull their weight every shooting phase. Though in recent games I kept fluffing their melee with abysmal hit rates. Part of me is thinking about trying out the evil sunz versions, with VITS for that sweet accuracy buff, even though I adore the AP buff that all three can share if I need to focus fire on one target unit.


30 shots is something that helps a lot IMO for getting consistency versus the swingy nature of a 3D6 blast weapon. It also doesn't help that often times the higher strength and AP is made redundant from stuff that has invulns or strats like Transhuman. The flat 3 damage is useful with the proliferation of terminators and bladeguard though. I'm hoping that once our new codex releases there might be some tank strats in general or some kind of armoured krumpany kultur that can give them more of a boost.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Oh yeah, sadly the only thing holding the killtanks back is they don't have a massive number of interactions with the rest of the codex.

Deffskulls gives a weak invul and a few re-rolls along with mechanical seizures. There is also the Wreckers stratagem, for re-rolls to wound which could be fun.

Evil Sunz makes them a tiny bit faster and if you wanna deepstrike and charge it makes that more reliable. VITS is probably one of the better buffs available but it is tricky to get off and is one tank only. Maaaaybe toss in the redder armour for some more mortals?

Bad Moonz gives some passive re-rolls and you can use their spell to buff their armour.

Blood axe could be fun with full fallback shoot and charge as well as a little extra armour outside of 18"

Besides that there's more dakka and ramming speed that can affect vehicles right?

On the plus side, the kill tanks are pretty autonomous at least.

   
Made in se
Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter





How would you compare the Killtank to Gorkanaut?
   
Made in fr
Stabbin' Skarboy






 Scactha wrote:
How would you compare the Killtank to Gorkanaut?


I have tried listst with both triple kill tank and lists with a single gorka lately, and find it hilarious that the gorka is more expensive in points. Because it is a lot worse.

Yes a Gorka doesn't cost you tons of CP unlike a dakka killtank or a kill tank trio (and yes, for me you need to commit to 3 or none because you can't afford to lose the klan traits, unless you go for the evil sunz option which really only shines with the psychic spell).

And Yes, a Gorka is better in CC, but when you look at the rest of the stats and special rules, you certainly see how the power has crept, between the time the ork codex was released and when the FW book was released.

By the 9th ed codex standards, our kill tanks barely meet the competitive benchmark. Gorkanauts fall waaaaaaay below it, IMHO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 08:33:28


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Given how cheap the killtank im expecting a major change to both gorkanauts and morkanauts. Whether its them becoming more expensive and much better, or simply cheaper i dont know.


But i do expect change. Large ones for those 2.

Furthermore, i expect either a change to the KFFs in general, or stompas, Garg Squiggoths and kustom Stompas should be put on bases somehow. Because it makes no sense that you would pay 500 points for a garg squig, or 800 points for a kustom stompa, only for them to not have an invul save. Who in their right mind would do that.

It already makes no sense that they are so expensive as you would have to pay 60 points extra for the KFF big mek, and then put him inside just for the vehicle to receive the KFF effect.

I hope they go back to what it used to be, that it just has to be within 6 inches. Not wholly within.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 09:40:02


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

You' re right, that there will be changes on Nauts and it will be the same with Dreads as well. This is the only speculation about the changes in the codex, we can be pretty sure (except the squig riders and snakebite arise).

We can be sure, because there is an evidence - new WALKER keyword in FW rules. So it' s obvious, there will be some strategems / spec. detachements focused od WALKERs. Maybe even Kans can get something.

And it makes sence from business purpose side of view - there is a couple of great models for a lot of bugs, that are pretty useless last couple of years. Giving them the cool rules creates big income with no extra cost on new models.

Plus - mostly the story with the new models is the same - GW comes with the new models and gakky rules to sell the cool models. In the same time they btw. improve the rules of something totaly different. Mostly old. And the new models became powerfull later, with some another book.

Wink wink buggies and codex, I speak about you! Codex pimped up Smashguns and created a Loota bomb etc. Buggies are good now, with the PA rules.

I think, if man want to predict the future, he needs to think about the cashflow. This gives the results. Thinking about what doesn ' t work, what is week....pffff it never worked like this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 11:07:54


8000pt 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Well I just got demoralized by a 20 deathwing termie list. The slow rollout of codexes is killing 9th edition. Now with admech delayed, we probably won’t get ours until july at best? Not to mention everything will be sold out for at least 3 months after that. Honestly makes me want to quit again. Maybe crusade will breathe some life back into the game for me.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

tbh im still surprised the killtank hasnt spiked by 75-100pts at least.
The profile alone feels nuts for its cost, even if its damage output is somewhat "meh" for a LoW (not bad, but not LoW-feeling)

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in dk
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Denmark

BDBurrow wrote:
Well I just got demoralized by a 20 deathwing termie list. The slow rollout of codexes is killing 9th edition. Now with admech delayed, we probably won’t get ours until july at best? Not to mention everything will be sold out for at least 3 months after that. Honestly makes me want to quit again. Maybe crusade will breathe some life back into the game for me.

With 8th edition I had really hoped that GW would stop doing the old codex creep and release new indexes for each army with every new edition. Writing and releasing the codexes one at a time takes too long, and the game developers have never been able to avoid the power creep, and it is bad for the game that older armies feel outdated.
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

Some new units. Hard to decode wtf is it. Skarboyz equivalent?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/19/what-do-you-mean-not-all-beast-snaggas-ride-squigs/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40korks19042021&fbclid=IwAR08ALWWytVRKG0TxxUCAUTimR7PAr6T08t5uCpoe8BFFUWjJD4iMS_K8O4

8000pt 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Da Dread Freeboota Robert wrote:
Oye ya Gitz!

I’ve been thinking about our new codex and the pending changes. I love Flash Gitz but fully recognize that they are not competitive and I think that is largely due to their points cost, although they struggle to differentiate themselves from pure shooty units i.e. Lootas and Mek Guns or pure choppy units, Mega Nobz, Nobz, Boyz etc...So with the new codex coming in (Orktober?) here are my thoughts on what could be around the corner.

1. Points cost reduced from 32 to 25 (15pts Nob + 10pts Snazzgun). They were 27 at the end of 8th before strangely going back to 32. Honestly at 27 they were probably still too high. 25 seems about right. I think an argument could be made for staying at the higher cost if Gun Crazy Show-offs changed to a 5+

2. The snazzgun Is essentially and orky heavy bolter. With heavy bolters getting a boost that means the relative uniqueness and value of the snazzgun has decreased(more or less). I think we are anticipating some change to the big Shoota(extra shot, AP, and maybe damage) making the Snazzgun redundant. This offers some opportunity to distinguish Gitz from other entries. I think we could see a change in the Snazzgun profile from Heavy to Assault. This would allow for them to close distance and krump; otherwise what is that nob profile for? I doubt we will see a number of shots or damage increase, unless GW goes ape and makes the snazzgun more like plasma or essentially makes Snazzguns assault Deffgunz.

3. The Kaptain gets a power stabba/big Choppa default.

4. They move to the Elites slot.

5. They get “Keepin’ Order” (Or whatever the new version is)

I think the intent of the the unit is to be an all round shooty choppy mercenaries, however in its current iteration it fails to do either well.
Thoughts?



To put it bluntly, Flashgitz suck. They are too expensive as a shooting unit, and have no purpose being in CC with their Nob statline which just leaves them in a bad position where they need a vehicle to get them into range AND to protect them from getting blasted off the board. If they ever get into range without having to move they do some decent dmg but it takes a fair amount of luck and skill to pull that little trick off. They also are sitting at the unfortunate milestone of S6. Which is literally no different to S5 weapons 90% of the time, the only place it really matters is against gravis armor guys who are T5. I don't see all that many T6 targets roaming the fields that I want Flashgitz shooting at. Here is the crazy thing, For 130pts a SM player can take a 4 Heavy Bolter devestator squad which against Gravis armor does 12 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds and 4 dmg. Flashgitz (assuming they moved) do 12 shots at BS5 for 4.6 hits 3.1 wounds and 2 failed armor saves for 4 dmg the kaptain gets 3 shots at BS4 for 1.75 hits, 1.16 wounds and 0.77 failed saves which averages 1.54dmg a turn.

Shorter range, less armor, no inherent easy buffs (reroll hits/wounds) etc.

You basically have 4 choices.

1: Make flashgitz cheaper so that losing them doesn't seem like a massive loss nor is it a huge deal to bring several squads to a battle.
2: Make them more shooty so that you feel justified in bringing them, even if they only ever get 1-2 shooting phases.
3: Give Flashgitz more durability for their current price. Either give them 3+ armor and a minor price drop OR give them 3+ armor AND +1 wounds and don't adjust price.
4: Increase range of Flashgitz from 24 to 36, this makes them more likely to be in range of something turn 1 so they don't have to move and drop to BS5. Keep in mind this will directly impact Lootas which will then be sharing a similar role to Flashgitz.

Personally, I think the best solution would be to drop the price of Nobz AND of snazz gunz. Something you should really keep in mind is that Nobz are currently garbage and are 17ppm. I think boyz are over priced as well, but generally speaking a Nob shouldn't be MORE than double the price of a Boy. If boyz go to 7 (Which they should) than a Nob should be 13-14pts at the absolute most. But even at the current price point of 17, a Flashgit is 32, which means that the Snazz gun is apparently worth 15pts. A SM with a Plasma gun is 28pts. So why the hell is a flashgit 32? Same # of wounds, worse armor save and only +1 attack and S now that Marines got all their special rules. Not to even mention all the inherent buffs SM's currently have easy access to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Looks like they want S5 boyz to be a norm across all factions. So instead of getting back our 4+ armor save Eavy armor boyz we are getting S5 CC oriented boyz which unless I am very much mistaken will be 10ppm because...reasons?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 15:15:17


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yea S5 and maybe even meaner choppas. But still 1W and probably still 6+ save, though I can see them doing a 5+.
   
Made in se
Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter





Sounds like Skarboyz for everyone indeed. Tough would mean a 6 fnp rather than inv to me looking at e.g. Wracks. Cost...9-10?

This expansion into a Snakebite Klan unit make happy as they’re my 2nd fav after BA. Now if they remake Cyboars...
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Primaris Orkmarines.

the text say they are larger and stronger than normal Orks but not as duable as Nobz. so it could mean that maybe Nobz are getting tougher with better toughness or 1 more wound, where as these guys will be 2 wounds and str 5? Or maybe just 1 wound still and str 5.

Who knows. I kinda get the vibes that Nobz will be a proper elite unit though

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 16:11:31


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.


Yeah.

Good way how to make us buy another 120 models

8000pt 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot



Austin

.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 17:01:20


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

 Tomsug wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.


Yeah.

Good way how to make us buy another 120 models


Tis why personally since i dont play tournaments and thus dont care about this sort of thing, i only buy models now that are either difficult to print or the actual sculpt is so good i dont want any printed alternatives.
Boyz do not fall under that category, i have tons and tons of Geargutz infantry to pick from.

I have ~12k of GW orks as it is. Im not buying more, unless like i said another really sweet model comes out (obviously i bought ghaz)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 17:48:11


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

I know that people say that Grot Mega tanks are bad but they did feature in a winning list on Mad Dok Seths lists. And i cant help but feeling that they arent as bad as i might think they are.


They are able to hold 7 scorchas for relatively small amounts of points. Sure 8 inches and all, but that might get increased to 12" when we get the codex.
I absolutely want to throw 7D6 auto hits with str 5 and -1AP just because i can one day. Whether its good or not be damned!


The Mega Tanks seem very versatile in general.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 17:49:11


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran





Netherlands

Beardedragon wrote:

They are able to hold 7 scorchas for relatively small amounts of points. Sure 8 inches and all, but that might get increased to 12" when we get the codex.
I absolutely want to throw 7D6 auto hits with str 5 and -1AP just because i can one day. Whether its good or not be damned!


I would have said: put a bunch of combi-skorcha nobs in a Chinork and have your fun.... But our Chinork has been scrapped alas. That setup was amazing fun however.

   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:

They are able to hold 7 scorchas for relatively small amounts of points. Sure 8 inches and all, but that might get increased to 12" when we get the codex.
I absolutely want to throw 7D6 auto hits with str 5 and -1AP just because i can one day. Whether its good or not be damned!


I would have said: put a bunch of combi-skorcha nobs in a Chinork and have your fun.... But our Chinork has been scrapped alas. That setup was amazing fun however.


A Chinork was the first unit i ever kit bashed... It was finished just before the change was made.. I was so effing sad. I intended to deepstrike the unit down with tankbustas and just let my tankbustas rip on the enemy tanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 22:02:35


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Beardedragon wrote:
Given how cheap the killtank im expecting a major change to both gorkanauts and morkanauts. Whether its them becoming more expensive and much better, or simply cheaper i dont know.


But i do expect change. Large ones for those 2.

Furthermore, i expect either a change to the KFFs in general, or stompas, Garg Squiggoths and kustom Stompas should be put on bases somehow. Because it makes no sense that you would pay 500 points for a garg squig, or 800 points for a kustom stompa, only for them to not have an invul save. Who in their right mind would do that.

It already makes no sense that they are so expensive as you would have to pay 60 points extra for the KFF big mek, and then put him inside just for the vehicle to receive the KFF effect.

I hope they go back to what it used to be, that it just has to be within 6 inches. Not wholly within.


On the naut front. I think it's safe to say the crush profile on the claw will become 3+d3 damage at the very least. Which will help it krump heavy stuff, plus any big shoota changes will buff it's shooting by a touch, as will any improvements to the Klans. Hoooopefully GW keeps the Kustom Jobs mechanic, maybe loosen up the restrictions a bit? Like rather than one job per unit have a couple jobs that affect several units. (I know a few do but most are restricted or only practical on one or two at best)
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

i doubt they'd remove the kustomjobz but they might shift them to a points thing since we've been seeing that pop up now.
Lets face it, theyre not all equal, and on a scale of 1-3 where 1 is cheap and 3 is SUPER DUPER EXPENSIVE its kinda impossible to balance them properly.

Even among the ones we do use, some of them dont feel like they should cost a cp compared to others. Sparkly Bitz for example is outright nuts as opposed to the Scrapjet's attack twice one.

Quite frankly i hope they DO do that, and of course remove any limitations outside "no more than 1 kustom job per vehicle" and the obvious points costs. Ork vehicles are super flavorful with a mass array of random abilities they can slap on things. I'm not a fan of the specific ones but i doubt they'd remove them (rather generic ones that could go on several vehicles). Ones that are specific feel like a cheap band aid and should just be buil tin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 01:03:38


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Honestly I hope these new tuff boyz are different then Skar boys as that’s just lazy rules writing.

I’m hoping these new tuff boyz are an elite choice and limited to 10-20 in a unit. Without the green tide rule or or green tide strat this will limit these new boyz to trukks or battle wagon boyz.

To put it simply I don’t see a place for these tuff boyz unless they make changes to nobs as well.. nobs should be 7ld and cost 15pts a model.

Boyz are okay at 8ppm.. mainly because of skar boy strat and green tide strat.

The new tuff boyz should be boyz w str 5 and 2 atks and 10ppm elite choice and 10-20x models in a unit.

The difference with them and a nob is nobs have 2 wounds ld7 4+ armor and access to big choppas and power klaws And I mean all nobs should have that stat line including nobs in boyz units.

And ffs Gretchin need to be added to clan rules or have Grot shields auto included in thier profile or both if they are going to stay at 5ppm.

The above design would still make skar boyz a useful strategem that isn’t just a way to save a few points but a way to make boyz in the troop slot into essentially these new boyz with access to green tide strat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 01:38:37


 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Crescent City Fl..

 Vineheart01 wrote:
 Tomsug wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.


Yeah.

Good way how to make us buy another 120 models


Tis why personally since i dont play tournaments and thus dont care about this sort of thing, i only buy models now that are either difficult to print or the actual sculpt is so good i dont want any printed alternatives.
Boyz do not fall under that category, i have tons and tons of Geargutz infantry to pick from.

I have ~12k of GW orks as it is. Im not buying more, unless like i said another really sweet model comes out (obviously i bought ghaz)


Geargutz you say... I'll keep that in mind I've seen a lot of his work on FB.

"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
My blog http://warhead01.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-art-of-ork.html 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





To be honest, and a bit pessimistic, I think in all likleyhood these will just be boyz with an extra attack, a pip of AP and some sort of re-roll against larger targets. If we're lucky it'll be anything over 4 wounds like in AOS, if not it'll just be things with the monster keyword, making it borderline useless except in the most niche of scenarios (IE against nids)

   
 
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