Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Scenario:

Sentinels (or other weakly armoured vehicles) are charged by say 10 orks. Furious charge makes their hits strength 5. They roll to hit and land 10. They roll 'to wound' and they get a 5 and two 6s which means 1 glancing and 2 penetrating.

Now:

Do they need special weapons to actually inflict damage on a vehicle?
Do these normal melee weapons count as AP - and therefore get -1 on the penetrating hit table?
Is there anything illegal about this sort of attack?

a) Unless theyre Nobz, those hits are S4, not 5
b) No, you dont need any special weapons
c) No, AP does nto exist in close combat. They have "no" AP, which is not the same as AP-
d) Nothing at all. Its why there are rules for hitting vehicles in close combat...

Dammit Nos, beat me to the punch

Boys are only S3 on the charge, but you can destroy vehicles in combat.

There isn't a modifier to your roll on the vehicle damage table (other than if you glance). You simply do Strength + D6 to find out if its a glance/pen, then roll on the chart and -2 if you glanced. Simples.

Edit:

Gorechild - no, boyz are S4 on the charge. S3 basic, plus furious charge

Boyz S3 +1 for FC = S4 on the charge. Hitting rear armor which against most things is 10 so they can at best glance..

My bad, boys are indeed 4 on the charge, I was thinking of the nob who will be 5 on the charge.

Does melee against vehicles work like described here: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_assault_a_vehicle_in_Warhammer_40k

Or are these rules old?

Its pretty close, however reading the vehice assault rules is a good idea

Walkers like the Sentinel turn to face the attacker, so the AV used is the front (I think).
Not that it matters, as they're probably 10 all round?

Skinnereal wrote:Walkers like the Sentinel turn to face the attacker, so the AV used is the front (I think).
Not that it matters, as they're probably 10 all round?

You are right, Sentinels have 10 round the block. Also note that they are open topped so they get a +1 to your penetrating roll.

My problem is: can I take out a weakly armoured vehicle if I have to when I'm charging in with kommandos? Snikrot is strength 5 and 2 burnas can count as power weapons so that's about 4+1 attacks str 5 and 2*(2+1) attacks str 7 (3*2+1). Statistically Snik would land one glancing and one piercing and the burnas would land about 4 glancing/piercing. So if my calculations are correct, a squad of 3 walkers would be crippled severely.

... all this provided the walkers didn't move. Maths change a bit but I should still be able to clip off at least 1.

It matters for armoured sentinels, as theyre AV12 - but yes, its front AV for walkers, ALWAYS

DreadRazor wrote:

Skinnereal wrote:Walkers like the Sentinel turn to face the attacker, so the AV used is the front (I think).
Not that it matters, as they're probably 10 all round?

You are right, Sentinels have 10 round the block. Also note that they are open topped so they get a +1 to your penetrating roll.

My problem is: can I take out a weakly armoured vehicle if I have to when I'm charging in with kommandos? Snikrot is strength 5 and 2 burnas can count as power weapons so that's about 4+1 attacks str 5 and 2*(2+1) attacks str 7 (3*2+1). Statistically Snik would land one glancing and one piercing and the burnas would land about 4 glancing/piercing. So if my calculations are correct, a squad of 3 walkers would be crippled severely.

... all this provided the walkers didn't move. Maths change a bit but I should still be able to clip off at least 1.

Power Weapons don't do anything against vehicles...and with walkers you use their WS characteristic. Them not moving doesn't change anything.

Don't you use the rear armour for walkers when they are immobilized

DreadRazor wrote:
My problem is: can I take out a weakly armoured vehicle if I have to when I'm charging in with kommandos? Snikrot is strength 5 and 2 burnas can count as power weapons so that's about 4+1 attacks str 5 and 2*(2+1) attacks str 7 (3*2+1). Statistically Snik would land one glancing and one piercing and the burnas would land about 4 glancing/piercing. So if my calculations are correct, a squad of 3 walkers would be crippled severely.

... all this provided the walkers didn't move. Maths change a bit but I should still be able to clip off at least 1.

You have to roll to hit walkers versus their WS, movement doesn't affect it one way or the other.

Also, Burnas are Power Weapons, not Power Fists, so everybody but Snikrot is striking at S4 on the charge.

DukeBadham wrote:Don't you use the rear armour for walkers when they are immobilized

No, you do not.

nosferatu1001 wrote:It matters for armoured sentinels, as theyre AV12 - but yes, its front AV for walkers, ALWAYS

Ok, understood... I was a bit foggy on this one.

DukeBadham wrote:Don't you use the rear armour for walkers when they are immobilized

No. You hit them with grenades vs WS instead.

Burnas have power weapons, not power fists, so S4 on the charge. A power weapon has no specific ability against vehicles.

OP, do you have the rule book, or are you going from memory? It actually explains it fairly clearly in the rules. But heres a quick run down.


10 boyz charge 3 sentinels.
First you compare initiative. On the charge boyz are I3 and sentinels are I3. So the attacks go at the same time (either one of you can go first to make it easier)
Lets do the boyz since your asking about armor in CC.
Compare WS of boyz to WS of sentinels, and see what you roll to hit on.
so 10 boyz attacking on the charge is 40 attacks (they are slugga boyz I guess) at STR4
So out of 40 attacks lets say 30 hit.

NOW you need to roll a D6 for each attack, and add that number to the attackers strength. That number needs to be either even to, or over the AV of your vehicle.
Being STR4, youll 6s to glance the sentinels. Roll on chart, add damage results.


No need for special weapons and such for damaging armor. BUT! If you run a boyz mob, and youve got a Nob in there, he had better be swinging a PK

Read page 42 again and now I understand the difference between power weapon and power fist

...also looking around in the booklet to clarify how the assault works. Thanks KingCracker for the outline...

I've seen what it says in the rules, but power weapons not bypassing vehicle armour just seems stupid. Why would Burna Boys be referred to as "Kan Openers" if they can't open up Killa Kans? The rules seem to describe power weapons as able to slice armour like a knife through butter, and it weirds me out that that doesn't translate onto vehicles.

AFAIK the only CCW weapons that get bonus when dealing with Vehicles are Witchblades/Singing Spears which count as Str 9 vs vehicles. On a side note, would they still be Str 9 vs a Monolith? And please, don't let this become another ridiculous x vs monolith thread...

Yes. The base strength of the WEAPON is S9

Happyjew wrote:AFAIK the only CCW weapons that get bonus when dealing with Vehicles are Witchblades/Singing Spears which count as Str 9 vs vehicles. On a side note, would they still be Str 9 vs a Monolith? And please, don't let this become another ridiculous x vs monolith thread...

It's not going to become a thread, Monoliths kill Ridiculous Xs EVERY DAY. They don't even have any weapons, just Xylophones and other stuff.

Spanish Birdman wrote:I've seen what it says in the rules, but power weapons not bypassing vehicle armour just seems stupid. Why would Burna Boys be referred to as "Kan Openers" if they can't open up Killa Kans? The rules seem to describe power weapons as able to slice armour like a knife through butter, and it weirds me out that that doesn't translate onto vehicles.

I think in the previous Ork Codex the burnas could do something special to vehicles, but not anymore.
But yeah, it does seem a bit inconsistent.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spanish Birdman wrote:I've seen what it says in the rules, but power weapons not bypassing vehicle armour just seems stupid. Why would Burna Boys be referred to as "Kan Openers" if they can't open up Killa Kans? The rules seem to describe power weapons as able to slice armour like a knife through butter, and it weirds me out that that doesn't translate onto vehicles.

I think in the previous Ork Codex the burnas could do something special to vehicles, but not anymore.
But yeah, it does seem a bit inconsistent.

This might be where my confusion came from as I've read a lot of the old stuff from friends before getting a new codex

Rule of thumb gentlemen, NEVER use fluff to make sense of game rules. Other wise, Space Marine armies would consist of 5 guys, and they would always, ALWAYS win, even against 1 million Orks.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

DukeBadham wrote:Don't you use the rear armour for walkers when they are immobilized

No. You hit them with grenades vs WS instead.

Burnas have power weapons, not power fists, so S4 on the charge. A power weapon has no specific ability against vehicles.

I don't think you comment actually answers my post. did you quote the wrong person by accident. I was asking about when someone said that you always use the front armour when attacking walkers, when I thought that when they are immobilized you hit the rear armour, so using the rear armour statistic.
If you was answering my point, could you please make it clearer, so that I can understand.

You never ever hit the rear armour of walkers. the only benefit for an immobilised walker is that you hit them with grenades using Ws vs WS, not on a 6 as usual

The "no" was answering your question

OK thank you for clearing that up.