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2011/11/22 00:04:13
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
Here we see how powerful a Necron list can be. This battle report isn’t completely indicative of what you should expect for reason that will be evident during the report, but I honestly don’t think the results would have been a lot different unless Will had stolen the initiative.
Even with you rolling so well with everything (that opening lightning strike), that is an insane amount of damage being dealt out. And so many damn Scarabs....
I'm still concerned about the ridiculous cost of that one unit. But if this turns out to consistently be awesome, I can see it being very annoying in tournies. Shame all my local ones are 1750, not 1850. :/
Necrons (W/D/L): 4/1/0
Reset with the new Codex.
2011/11/22 02:01:27
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
No way I want to see draigowing face the full retinue of 1 overlord and 5 lords all with MS scarabs forcing draigo to beat his boys with st 10! lol... add whip coils and i think they can take them out...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I really want to see the death ray in action as I feel like it is being overlooked....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/22 02:39:30
Red Corsair wrote:No way I want to see draigowing face the full retinue of 1 overlord and 5 lords all with MS scarabs forcing draigo to beat his boys with st 10! lol... add whip coils and i think they can take them out...
That's about 120pts of fail each (lord with shifter, weave, scythe & scarabs)! That unit will never survive the shooting of a 10-man paladin unit with 4 psycannons!
No, that trick wouldn't work on an experienced general.
BTW, lords don't have an option for whip coils....and you don't want to join 1 to a unit of wraiths.
@Jy2
Challenge accepted! Let's do it, that will be a good test of this list.
@Red Cosair
We have a game with a dual Doom Scythe list coming up.
@Thread
We have tried this list (or similar) against a wide variety or tournament lists, and they have all been smashed, except Chaos. We will have more up shortly, but this list is absolutely brutal.
DevianID wrote:Reecius, why did the ig player not reserve?
I didnt see any reason to reserve against a non-shooting army. Why piece meal my army?
Because the Necron list is an army with a big giant gun of scarabs. That gun has to be pointed in a direction and fired. If you come in piece meal, then you force the scarab gun to fire into one spot and not engage the whole tank line. The other side of the board will be free to act. Also you reserve to deny the lightning strikes, you get the first shot with each vehicle that comes on the board and you get closer to when the nightfight ends.
Not buying the scarab farm army. Not yet.
2011/11/22 06:06:09
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
The thing is, if you reserve up, you move the Scarabs up, and wait within 18" of the board edge, and spread them out, waiting for the IG to come in Piece meal, and then assaulting.
I don't know, it's a tough match up for IG without Hellhounds. Unless there isn't much cover on the board, it's rough. We have been trying this list against a lot of opponents, and it has only been beaten once so far, by Frankie's Nurgle who got into combat swiftly, and doubled them out with Strength 6 attacks.
We're going to put it up against the best lists and see how it fairs.
Reserve ig and come on piece meal. It doesn't matter where the scarabs are since they are one unit they can only assault in one direction. If the ig have four tank come on the board, then move two on the far right and two on the far left. The scarabs can only assault one corner and then they are five feet away from the other tanks. The units inside the tanks the scarabs assault will draw the scarabs even farther away from the opposite board edge and then the ig have a clear lane to move more reserved tanks into and away from scarabs.
Just a thought. Maybe it wouldn't work.
I have another idea. Switch the players.
2011/11/22 12:32:00
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
DarthDiggler wrote:Reserve ig and come on piece meal. It doesn't matter where the scarabs are since they are one unit they can only assault in one direction. If the ig have four tank come on the board, then move two on the far right and two on the far left. The scarabs can only assault one corner and then they are five feet away from the other tanks. The units inside the tanks the scarabs assault will draw the scarabs even farther away from the opposite board edge and then the ig have a clear lane to move more reserved tanks into and away from scarabs.
Just a thought. Maybe it wouldn't work.
I have another idea. Switch the players.
They have switched the players. The guy playing IG this game (Italiaplaya, I believe) Was the first one playing Necrons in their recent battle reports, and has played them a few times.
Great report as ever Reece; not so much the battle for obvious reasons, but it was still entertaining and the analysis/comments were really informational.
I would've been interested to see it if Imotekh had not had such a good first turn, but I probably would've still been gunning for the Necrons; 1st turn (likely to happen), lots of scarabs (inevitable), cover (likely, again) and night fight (again, searchlights have limited use) all work in the Necron favour and it seems a really good synergy and I agree that it's definitely appear to have the goods to work in tournaments. Storm-lord-scarab-farm is looking good man.
List-wise, are you not concerned about such few troop choices? Obviously one of them is rock-hard, but it still leaves you with only 2 troops. That's the biggest flaw I see in this list personally, and if you face a strong assault army, such as Nids, Daemons, Wych-cult etc. then it your scarabs would have limited effect I'd imagine.
I wonder if the table has too much LoS-blocking terrain too? This was something the BA/Land Raider list encountered too.
Either way, great game man and loving the Storm-lord-scarab-farm.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2011/11/22 13:52:58
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
DarthDiggler wrote:Reserve ig and come on piece meal. It doesn't matter where the scarabs are since they are one unit they can only assault in one direction. If the ig have four tank come on the board, then move two on the far right and two on the far left. The scarabs can only assault one corner and then they are five feet away from the other tanks. The units inside the tanks the scarabs assault will draw the scarabs even farther away from the opposite board edge and then the ig have a clear lane to move more reserved tanks into and away from scarabs.
Just a thought. Maybe it wouldn't work.
I have another idea. Switch the players.
They have switched the players. The guy playing IG this game (Italiaplaya, I believe) Was the first one playing Necrons in their recent battle reports, and has played them a few times.
Can you point me to the game where Reecius is playing against the Scarab Swarm? I haven't been able to find that.
2011/11/22 14:07:24
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
DarthDiggler wrote:Reserve ig and come on piece meal. It doesn't matter where the scarabs are since they are one unit they can only assault in one direction. If the ig have four tank come on the board, then move two on the far right and two on the far left. The scarabs can only assault one corner and then they are five feet away from the other tanks. The units inside the tanks the scarabs assault will draw the scarabs even farther away from the opposite board edge and then the ig have a clear lane to move more reserved tanks into and away from scarabs.
Just a thought. Maybe it wouldn't work.
I have another idea. Switch the players.
They have switched the players. The guy playing IG this game (Italiaplaya, I believe) Was the first one playing Necrons in their recent battle reports, and has played them a few times.
Can you point me to the game where Reecius is playing against the Scarab Swarm? I haven't been able to find that.
If I was the IG player, with the same list, then reserves would guarente that the manticores get at least 1 shot (at the warriors who hopefully get 'weaken resolved'). Also, the game was objectives, so outflanking vendettas for late turn stuff would have been handy.
Yes, the lightning was above average... however, as was stated in the report unless you siezed the initiative the scarabs were going to be 19 strong in terrain with a 3+ cover by your turn 1 anyway... AND with nightfighting you didnt even shoot on your turn... so all you did is let the lightning hit your entire army for zero benefit, and stay clustered nice and tight for 28 scarabs to charge you turn 2. That's as I saw it anyway, obviously I only got to see the end of turn reviews, but like I said, the results stand for themselves.
It reminded me of demo vets in vendettas turn 1 charging every vehicle on the enemy side with 30 meltabombs. If your opponent CAN alpha strike you that hard, and you let it happen, its less of a good list and more of a surprised player first exposed to a new alpha strike.
So yeah, I think reserves does a lot for your list, despite the necrons not having a lot of traditional shooting.
To Reecius, if you are serious about this list, then 1 gloom shroud should be considered mandatory. This lets your scarabs and 20 man brick have at least a 4+ chance to avoid being destroyed by a single psychic power. Also, whip coils on the wraiths are not as good as you think, considering with 60 points you can get another 2 wraiths almost or secondary scarab unit. I am not sure if wraith's lack of grenades wont make them swing at init 1 in combat btw. They do not ignore terrain like ctan do, so assaulting through cover seems like it still knocks them to init 1--the wording on the wraith's terrain power is unnecessarily complex compared to the c'tan's terrain ability, and I can only assume this is intentional to make wraiths less useful in terrain somehow.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/22 15:19:49
2011/11/22 15:29:05
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
I noticed you were using a lot of only 3 scrababs per base, is this going to be standard based on no scarab bases being sold at this time to keep it reasonably priced?
My Armies: 8000 , 3000 , 8000 High Elf, 10000+ and goblin, 5000 Dwarf
If your planning a scarab farm list, counting the maximum number of scarabs that can get pooped out over 4 or 5 turns, I would consider putting a single scarab on each base along with a built in spot of terrain that can hold a small dice as a number/wound counter.
Same problem Tervigon heavy lists have...needing as many as a hundered gants (painted and based) ready just in case gets real expensive.
Reserving would have changed nothing except the length of the game...only letting the scarab swarm get positioned on your board edge to nail you as soon as you come on. Even if you tried bringing units on the opposite sides, a large enough swarm spread out could potentially still double charge those units, perhaps not killing them, but dropping their armor low enough so any standard S4 shot will still auto-punch the next turn (allowing the scarabs to chew up any surving troops on assault).
A TH/SS heavy unit (2 Deathwing squads...) should be able to tarpit the scarabs and kill them off over the course of 2 turns, but it could also be a slow agonizing death for the termies (the dice be a fickle mistress).
The turn 1 Lightning strike was epic. It would be interesting to see this replayed WITHOUT the benefit of that turn 1 kill-fest (kinda like SW Long-Fang Spam getting multiple glance-6 rolls on Battlewagon/LandRaider heavy lists...possible but not likely).
That and a replay with Will going 1st just to see where that puts the Cron player and how the game/list reacts to that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/22 16:45:37
Life isn't fair. But wouldn't it be worse if Life were fair, and all of the really terrible things that happen to us were because we deserved them?
M. Cole.
2011/11/22 18:07:29
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
dkellyj wrote:If your planning a scarab farm list, counting the maximum number of scarabs that can get pooped out over 4 or 5 turns, I would consider putting a single scarab on each base along with a built in spot of terrain that can hold a small dice as a number/wound counter.
Same problem Tervigon heavy lists have...needing as many as a hundered gants (painted and based) ready just in case gets real expensive.
Reserving would have changed nothing except the length of the game...only letting the scarab swarm get positioned on your board edge to nail you as soon as you come on. Even if you tried bringing units on the opposite sides, a large enough swarm spread out could potentially still double charge those units, perhaps not killing them, but dropping their armor low enough so any standard S4 shot will still auto-punch the next turn (allowing the scarabs to chew up any surving troops on assault).
A TH/SS heavy unit (2 Deathwing squads...) should be able to tarpit the scarabs and kill them off over the course of 2 turns, but it could also be a slow agonizing death for the termies (the dice be a fickle mistress).
The turn 1 Lightning strike was epic. It would be interesting to see this replayed WITHOUT the benefit of that turn 1 kill-fest (kinda like SW Long-Fang Spam getting multiple glance-6 rolls on Battlewagon/LandRaider heavy lists...possible but not likely).
That and a replay with Will going 1st just to see where that puts the Cron player and how the game/list reacts to that.
Im still not seeing it with reserving everything. But each to there own I guess. Reserving my army would have just prolonged the game. The scarab bases would have just congo lined centrally probably 12 to 17ins outside my deployment and 18ins long in order to hit anything that came in thru reserves the following turn. Remember, he gains an additional 2 to 3ins a turn once he poops scarabs out. So depending on which side he needs to go, he could throw them there.
If I were to have gone first, I would have thrown up either one of my vendettas or my CCS close enough to get a easy spot light on the scarabs. Followed by both manticores. They werent in cover first turn, so more then likely they would have been wiped out. We'll get a game soon again my daemons and see how it goes.
While I definitely think it's a reasonable test of what the list can do under good circumstances against an Imperial Guard opponent, I would like to see this game replayed in two variations:
1) Play the exact same lists, but IG get the first turn and Necrons fail to seize the initiative (this is pre-determined and simulates a worst-case scenario for the Necrons to try and overcome). Both sides may change their deployment to reflect having won or lost the roll for first turn respectively, but Necrons should deploy with the 50% chance to seize in mind, even though they know they won't get it.
2) Play the exact same Necron list against Imperial Guard fielding at least one Leman Russ Executioner. These are common tanks at the tournament scene and I have seen many many of these on the board across from my Space Wolves. They are also one of the best counters to Scarabs that Guard have aside from Colossus Mortars.
I don't think they will have many huge problems with other types of lists except perhaps the Draigowing list mentioned by another poster, and it sounds like you guys have that game covered for a future report. If this list can do relatively well in either of the above scenarios (IE not get blown out of the water) then I would be willing to call this list tournament worthy.
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
So slightly OT, but considering its a thread regarding IG vs Necrons this seems a bit topical.
I am curious what reecius and his fellow zero comp homies think about the latest BoLS article by Mr Leafblower himself, darkwynn, claiming the Necron codex utter trash.
Seems a tad premature to me, regardless of the opinion one way or another. He also claims in the comments that its the opinion of many other competitive players, but I have no idea who they are (most I have read or talked to seem to think there's some gems there after actual play).
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2011/11/22 19:52:15
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
winterman wrote:So slightly OT, but considering its a thread regarding IG vs Necrons this seems a bit topical.
I am curious what reecius and his fellow zero comp homies think about the latest BoLS article by Mr Leafblower himself, darkwynn, claiming the Necron codex utter trash.
Seems a tad premature to me, regardless of the opinion one way or another. He also claims in the comments that its the opinion of many other competitive players, but I have no idea who they are (most I have read or talked to seem to think there's some gems there after actual play).
To be honest I agree with him on almost all points. Scarab-Farm aside, he pretty much stated what I have been thinking for the past couple of weeks since the book released. Necrons have plenty of good combos but none of them are cost effective enough to actually run and all of them fall apart if one piece of the chain is destroyed. Every time I try to design a tactical list I run into a bottleneck on points, which he described in the article perfectly. So yes, I believe Necrons are a poorly written book for 5th edition with perhaps one or two workable tactics/combos that will carry them, but I also believe that the last sentiment he posted is correct. The book was not written for 5th edition, it was written for 6th edition which means it could see a significant boost in relative power when the new edition is released. I sincerely hope this is the case, because I really like Necrons, and I really want to buy the models, but if I cannot reasonably play the book in a competitive or semi-competitive environment without getting curbstomped, then I don't foresee myself spending the cash.
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:With how the scarabs are testing out, do you see people taking less mech in tournaments BECAUSE of it?
If so, do you think we will see a resurgance of lists like Lash and green tide?
No, I don't think people will be fielding less mech because of it. They will simply include units in the list that counter scarabs. Grey Knights will likely see a reason to field one or more Dreadknights with Heavy Incinerators, or start including an Incinerator or two in their Purifier units. Imperial Guard will run Hellhounds or Executioners. Space Marines will take Vindicators and Land Raider Redeemers. Eldar will run the tri-flamer Guardian units and Fire Dragons will include Dragons Breath Flamers on their Exarchs (which I do already anyway). Probably the biggest thing you will see is Searchlights on every vehicle, and one or two fast sacrificial vehicles to fly up and paint targets for the rest of the army.
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
While I like scarab farm lists a lot, one thing you have to acknowledge is that this unit has nothing for a 10 man paladin unit. I think a scarab list is awesome, and can wreck a lot of armies, but it simply can't deal with 10 complex paladins and Draigo, and in this environment, I think you have to consider that.
Before moving on I will attempt to defend my claim. Again, I will say that I love this concept but am concerned for it, and pointing out all of this is an attempt to make a better list.
lets say that you beef up your scarab unit for 4 turns and take no casualties in return. not terribly likely, but it could happen. This would give you 46 Scarabs. Now lets say that you assault 10 complex paladins and Draigo, and for the sake of simplicity, lets say that this unit has also taken no damage.
When you hit this unit, it will kill roughly 15 bases before the scarabs swing. Leavings you with 31 sacrabs left to attack with. The scarabs get an incredible 155 attacks, but, due to Paladins being WS 5, having a 2+save, 2 wounds, and feel no pain, you only about 2 wounds, none of which kill models.
You have now lost combat by 43, and proceed to lose an additional 9 scarab bases, reducing you to 22 bases.
While there are too many variables to discuss how the remaining rounds of combat will play out as other units jump into the combat or set up charges for later, I think it is rather clear that for the necron player, this is not good.
If My math is wrong, please correct me. The point of this is that I believe you will struggle greatly against paladins, and I would like to hear how you plan to deal with them.
Falcon Punch!
2011/11/22 23:42:11
Subject: Video Battle report: Stormlord Scarab Farm vs. Mech Vets IG
No, youre pretty much correct on the math, but that said Paladins will spank any unit in existence in close combat, and they are nearly impossible to kill at range due to FNP on 2 wound models with a 2+/5++ and Draigo with EW. You need multiple Lascannon shots fired at the same time to take them out, because Draigo eats them like a champ and keeps the unit whole. I faced a Draigo-wing list at 'ard boyz, and Draigo's unit basically walked across the battlefield all game while I ran away from him and killed everything else in his army. I scored a minor victory because he had a grand total of 8 KP's in the list (compared to my 20 or so at 2,500 points!) of which I scored 6. He killed less than half of my army in total points and I killed almost 2,000 points worth of his, leaving him with Draigo and 4 Paladins by the end of it.
Draigo-Wing lists don't win because they kill you off. They win on denial and the ability to completely monster one objective while contesting others. It would be idiotic for the Scarabs to assault a huge unit of Paladins for any reason, and you would be far better off just hitting them with things like Tremorstaves and Seismic Crucibles all game long while running away and killing the rest of the army. perhaps feed them a unit or two to preoccupy them. Wraiths will hold them up for a turn or two and only cost as much as Draigo for a fully equipped unit of 6, and a Destroyer Lord with a Res Orb and Mindshackle Scarabs will confound them as well.
I truly think the weakness of the book comes from a lack of cohesive elements to tie everything together, and the lack of a reasonably priced backbone supported by strong ranged units. Without this, they cannot stand up in a competitive environment, and that's what kills the Necrons, not the inability for their uber unit to kill Draigo's uber unit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/22 23:47:27
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Thousand Sons 4000+
Great report as ever Reece; not so much the battle for obvious reasons, but it was still entertaining and the analysis/comments were really informational.
, 3000 
and goblin, 5000 Dwarf
