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 Olthannon wrote:
I seem to recall in Graham McNeil's books the skitarii do get shunted and controlled by their commanders under extreme circumstances in order to rapidly increase their tactical control. Maybe they are doing something like that with the control rod?

McNeil's books came out before they started solidifying them on the tabletop.

Or maybe it's servitor related like Kanluwen said. I always thought we could do with more servitors on the roster, would be cool to see some other creations..

Random thinking over the time we've been in limbo has been making me think they'll add "Mindlock" to the Kataphrons as a way of potentially balancing out some new buffing to the 'intelligent' stuff like the Electropriests, Sicarian, and Skitarii.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I seem to recall in Graham McNeil's books the skitarii do get shunted and controlled by their commanders under extreme circumstances in order to rapidly increase their tactical control. Maybe they are doing something like that with the control rod?

McNeil's books came out before they started solidifying them on the tabletop.

Or maybe it's servitor related like Kanluwen said. I always thought we could do with more servitors on the roster, would be cool to see some other creations..

Random thinking over the time we've been in limbo has been making me think they'll add "Mindlock" to the Kataphrons as a way of potentially balancing out some new buffing to the 'intelligent' stuff like the Electropriests, Sicarian, and Skitarii.

Sure enough, I just figure if they're calling the character a "marshal" and they have a control rod..
GW aren't exactly subtle with their naming conventions. Kind of suggests something along those lines and, although older books, Forges of Mars are a worthy thing to hark back too. This codex to me would suggest finally fully merging the disparate parts of the ad mech armies and making them more fluid for 9th ed.

Frankly, it just suggests to me they finally have realized it was a colossal cock-up blending the two in the first place.

Thing to note with regards to the idea you're talking about? That's what the "Alpha" grade Doctrina Imperatives were meant to be. They were supposed to represent the Techpriest in orbit overriding the noosphere and effectively 'assuming direct control'.

I genuinely do not know what to expect with regards to this Marshal. There seems to be some hinting/insinuations in the teaser that make me think it's truly meant to be an AdMech Lieutenant rather than a Skitarii HQ--if that statement makes sense?

The Marshal might do more for Skitarii than Servitors or Robots, but I definitely do feel like that might be the angle they're going for here.

Just in:
The Defense Cohort turns everything basically into Secutarii. You lose your Forge World Dogma for such units, albeit other units in the same detachment can still gain it.
But since the restriction is army wide....

That makes the EDH be like another FW that cannot take SKITARII units. It was debatable at best before and is now very close to utterly useless.

He will be serving us as a lieutenant, according to Warhammer community's statement.

Im also glad that he isnt an Alpha Primus, as he doesnt look crazily augmented, so lieutenant status works well for him. Looking still similiar to the baseline, but more ornate, slightly more plates, a weird pistol and I believe a mastercrafted powersword? Wouldnt make much sense to give him normal alpha equipment.

I'm personally surprised that they didn't have a Skitarii HQ in the last codex; glad they're rectifying that with this book.

See, the biggest problem with the last codex is that it was developed with feedback from the tournament crowd, not the actual Skitarii players.

It's why Canticles lost the whole "effect scales on the number of units on the board" thing and why Doctrina Imperatives became stratagems. The tourney crowd only knew that ridiculous "War Convocation" bit, not the actual Skitarii army list.

Hence: Cult got everything they kept whining they needed on the tourney circuit("cheap troops! Kataphron are too expensive!" "Canticles become a flat thing!"), while Skitarii got basically everything unique to them gutted.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, it just suggests to me they finally have realized it was a colossal cock-up blending the two in the first place.

Thing to note with regards to the idea you're talking about? That's what the "Alpha" grade Doctrina Imperatives were meant to be. They were supposed to represent the Techpriest in orbit overriding the noosphere and effectively 'assuming direct control'.

I genuinely do not know what to expect with regards to this Marshal. There seems to be some hinting/insinuations in the teaser that make me think it's truly meant to be an AdMech Lieutenant rather than a Skitarii HQ--if that statement makes sense?

The Marshal might do more for Skitarii than Servitors or Robots, but I definitely do feel like that might be the angle they're going for here.

Id like to see him have something different that isnt just reroll either 1s to hit or wound. Id like him to have an ability like our Holy Orders where he picks from a list of 3 imperatives each command phase. Something like an ability that helps with objectives, 1 for movement and 1 for shooting/combat.


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 0XFallen wrote:
He will be serving us as a lieutenant, according to Warhammer community's statement.

Im also glad that he isnt an Alpha Primus, as he doesnt look crazily augmented, so lieutenant status works well for him. Looking still similiar to the baseline, but more ornate, slightly more plates, a weird pistol and I believe a mastercrafted powersword? Wouldnt make much sense to give him normal alpha equipment.

When reading Skitariius, Haldron-44 Stroika doesnt seem that more heavily augmented to your standard Alpha. Yeah he has 4 arms of which 2 are stored away, 2 Arc pistols and 2 Arc Mauls but he isnt anymore augmented than that. He still has a Skitarii warframe but with a full rotable torso, less organics and more cogitators. The Marshal to me looks noticably different from Skitarii but still has ties to them which is what I would expect.

What wargear would you want an Alpha-Primus to have? Whilst Stroika is cool and all, I wouldnt want Arc weapons. A new Phosphor Serpenta is completely fine, itll atleast be better than a Phosphor Blast Pistol. I dont really care about the melee weapon, Skitarii will never compete with the really heavy hitters of other factions. A Skitarii's true power should come from his commanding abilities. The amount of data he can take in, battlefield predictions and figuring out weak points of the enemy, then relying that to his troops, thats his real power. He should be a super computer (just not like a Dominus) that is always 1 step ahead of the opponent.

I think the way 9E is probably going to work is that the Priests will buff Core units, which will be all of our infantry, maybe minus Servitors and Secutarii. The Marshal buffs Skitarii. The Datasmith buffs Robots.

 Suzuteo wrote:
I think the way 9E is probably going to work is that the Priests will buff Core units, which will be all of our infantry, maybe minus Servitors and Secutarii. The Marshal buffs Skitarii. The Datasmith buffs Robots.

And then its just a matter of waht of any Skitarii vehicles get Core. Talos are Core in the new Dark Eldar Codex so maybe Dragoons and/or Ballistarii will be Core too but the Onager and Skorpius wont. Personally I would love the Onager to get Core, its so distinct and thematic too our army and for a long time was our workhorse both in the lore and on tabletop. Sadly it got phased out a bit by the Disintegrator (I still use the Onager because it looks better and I love them more than anything... ) but it would create a nice distinction between the Onager having less guns but more support and the Disintegrator having more raw firepower but less synergies.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I think the way 9E is probably going to work is that the Priests will buff Core units, which will be all of our infantry, maybe minus Servitors and Secutarii. The Marshal buffs Skitarii. The Datasmith buffs Robots.

And then its just a matter of waht of any Skitarii vehicles get Core. Talos are Core in the new Dark Eldar Codex so maybe Dragoons and/or Ballistarii will be Core too but the Onager and Skorpius wont. Personally I would love the Onager to get Core, its so distinct and thematic too our army and for a long time was our workhorse both in the lore and on tabletop. Sadly it got phased out a bit by the Disintegrator (I still use the Onager because it looks better and I love them more than anything... ) but it would create a nice distinction between the Onager having less guns but more support and the Disintegrator having more raw firepower but less synergies.

To be fair, Talos are not vehicles. In any case, the only Core vehicle I can think of are the Robots. I don't think any Skitarii vehicles will get Core. I actually hope this is the case, actually, since it would help us diversify list-building. Right now, Mars is too damn good at everything because double Canticles and Cawl aura pretty much make everything viable.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I think the way 9E is probably going to work is that the Priests will buff Core units, which will be all of our infantry, maybe minus Servitors and Secutarii. The Marshal buffs Skitarii. The Datasmith buffs Robots.

And then its just a matter of waht of any Skitarii vehicles get Core. Talos are Core in the new Dark Eldar Codex so maybe Dragoons and/or Ballistarii will be Core too but the Onager and Skorpius wont. Personally I would love the Onager to get Core, its so distinct and thematic too our army and for a long time was our workhorse both in the lore and on tabletop. Sadly it got phased out a bit by the Disintegrator (I still use the Onager because it looks better and I love them more than anything... ) but it would create a nice distinction between the Onager having less guns but more support and the Disintegrator having more raw firepower but less synergies.

To be fair, Talos are not vehicles. In any case, the only Core vehicle I can think of are the Robots. I don't think any Skitarii vehicles will get Core. I actually hope this is the case, actually, since it would help us diversify list-building. Right now, Mars is too damn good at everything because double Canticles and Cawl aura pretty much make everything viable.

Talos are monsters, the lines between monster and vehicle have been blurred in 8th and 9th than it did in 7th and further back. The only distinction between the two now is keywords. Talos are more akin to Dreadnoughts and Deff Dreads, however they get to be in squads. To match them it would be Dragoons/Ballistarii, and if GW is crazy enough Kastellans. Mars are one form of the army and it shouldnt define the whole faction. What happens with Mars stays with Mars, it doesnt pass over into the other Forgeworlds. If anything all the Forgeworlds should be strong and thematic instead of Mars governing how we play and at the end of the day its how they change or rewrite Canticles. Onagers dont really gain much compared to the Skorpius. It doesnt have the number of shots to really benefit from Holy Orders, it can get reroll 1s to hit from Benediction of the Omnissah (if it doesnt change) so doesnt really need a Dominus. As I stated before it all depends on what happens to Mars and the other Dogmas.

I havent used Mars since the start of 8th and been Stygies and now Lucius and I dont miss being Mars or using Cawl. Id rather GW be fair when doing our Codex and not just cater to Mars as a definetion as to what happens to our army.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I think the way 9E is probably going to work is that the Priests will buff Core units, which will be all of our infantry, maybe minus Servitors and Secutarii. The Marshal buffs Skitarii. The Datasmith buffs Robots.

And then its just a matter of waht of any Skitarii vehicles get Core. Talos are Core in the new Dark Eldar Codex so maybe Dragoons and/or Ballistarii will be Core too but the Onager and Skorpius wont. Personally I would love the Onager to get Core, its so distinct and thematic too our army and for a long time was our workhorse both in the lore and on tabletop. Sadly it got phased out a bit by the Disintegrator (I still use the Onager because it looks better and I love them more than anything... ) but it would create a nice distinction between the Onager having less guns but more support and the Disintegrator having more raw firepower but less synergies.

To be fair, Talos are not vehicles. In any case, the only Core vehicle I can think of are the Robots. I don't think any Skitarii vehicles will get Core. I actually hope this is the case, actually, since it would help us diversify list-building. Right now, Mars is too damn good at everything because double Canticles and Cawl aura pretty much make everything viable.

The problem we've got is that most of our good stuff (Fulgurites aside) is all shooting and just about every buff we have makes shooting better and all the stuff around melee things is more awkward to deliver. Thematically they're reluctant to give us any kind of focus that isnt shooting, even though we actually have a butt load of melee units that are just totally sidelined and under utilised because they've pidgeon-holed us as a superior shooting army. I mean that's fine, we intentionallty have no psychic component either, but then neither do Necrons but they managed to work something flavourful into their codex.

If the DE codex is anything to go by I think they might finally be open to giving armies multiple options for getting stuff done. I'd like us to have some kind of cyberturgy, not just computer-based psychers though, something cleverer. I didn't start this army in 7th because it was simple to play, i wanted challenging complexity that when worked right gave quirky powerful results. i dont want copies of other army abilities just to 'fit in' I mean holy order WT could easily just be chants, like litanies for chaplains. That would give our characters some interesting flexible utility and still free up WT to give each model something cool.

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Octovol wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I think the way 9E is probably going to work is that the Priests will buff Core units, which will be all of our infantry, maybe minus Servitors and Secutarii. The Marshal buffs Skitarii. The Datasmith buffs Robots.

The problem we've got is that most of our good stuff (Fulgurites aside) is all shooting and just about every buff we have makes shooting better and all the stuff around melee things is more awkward to deliver. Thematically they're reluctant to give us any kind of focus that isnt shooting, even though we actually have a butt load of melee units that are just totally sidelined and under utilised because they've pidgeon-holed us as a superior shooting army. I mean that's fine, we intentionallty have no psychic component either, but then neither do Necrons but they managed to work something flavourful into their codex.

If the DE codex is anything to go by I think they might finally be open to giving armies multiple options for getting stuff done. I'd like us to have some kind of cyberturgy, not just computer-based psychers though, something cleverer. I didn't start this army in 7th because it was simple to play, i wanted challenging complexity that when worked right gave quirky powerful results. i dont want copies of other army abilities just to 'fit in' I mean holy order WT could easily just be chants, like litanies for chaplains. That would give our characters some interesting flexible utility and still free up WT to give each model something cool.

I agree fully with everything youve said, also our armies is more vehicle focused than most, except Imperial Guard. As you've said we are shooting superiority army, its been that way since 7th but we also had some melee flexibility then too, now the focus is primarily shooting of which we are arguably the best in the game for that. The other problem which I hope gets resolved is we still have 2 identities in this 1 book, like DE with their 3 subfactions. Skitarii and Cult are different. Its hard to guess what GW would do looking at the prior 9th ed codexes where some have had revamps and others not much of a change except wargear.

The two codex identities are the same though. We don't have cult that's more melee focussed and skitarii that's more vehicle and shooting focused; They're both shooty-centric with the same smattering of melee and trickery. But it's going to take some sizeable re-writes to change that and that could potentially upset a lot of people who took their chosen Forgeworld or persuasion of admech for how they are now. It'd be a bit of a culture shift.

The only reason we have shooting superiority at the moment is that we have several units that just saturate a target with shots that we can apply a multitude of layered buffs and effects to. In a way, we're a horde army where the horde is the number of shots lol. Quality of shooting is only important up to a certain threshold, robots hit that, so do intercessors. High ap high damage doesn't work in 9th.

They need to do something to give us our niche back, because right now we're just weaker marines with better weapons that don't translate to more kills.

In a way, we're a horde army where the horde is the number of shots lol.

This. My list at this point is 100% dedicated to producing a high volume of shots and mortals.

Saw this pop up on reddit:




Looks like dragoons are viable again?

 Olthannon wrote:
Saw this pop up on reddit:




Looks like dragoons are viable again?

Oh I dunno, balistarri got assault lascannons and autocannons, an extra 2 shots in autocannon profile and the improved 3+ save. Rather fire 6 autocannon shots into combat that 4 of those lances. No engagement penalty either!

depends, the dragoon has 1 more S and 1 more AP in comparison. So, summed up, if we assume each one makes a difference, that is a 16.67% increase in efficiency on each layer and the dragoons might have retained their exploding 6's which makes it more like 5 attacks on avg.
So if you get it into melee and the S and AP matter it does outperform the autocannon for probably less points with the added benefit of being able to explode even further with lucky rolls. And if someone kills it you can explode it for added MWs.

 Thairne wrote:
depends, the dragoon has 1 more S and 1 more AP in comparison. So, summed up, if we assume each one makes a difference, that is a 16.67% increase in efficiency on each layer and the dragoons might have retained their exploding 6's which makes it more like 5 attacks on avg.
So if you get it into melee and the S and AP matter it does outperform the autocannon for probably less points with the added benefit of being able to explode even further with lucky rolls. And if someone kills it you can explode it for added MWs.

I mean everything you said is true. But taser lances are melee only, you cant taser lance someone from 48" away, but you can fire an autocannon with no penalty at point blank range. My interpretation of the extra shots on auto cannon is that we're due some toning down of all our no-brainer + to hit buffs so the extra shots compensate for that lesser buff. If the trade off is one less str and ap it's gonna come down to what you're throwing them at. They're still pretty fragile against any counter melee with a 3+/6++ unless the -1 to hit also works in melee, that would be nice.

It's a shame the jezzail isnt 2dmg as well, that would actually make it a pretty decent option. Hopefully phosphor gets some useful extra rule because that straight profile isnt worth taking any points on, it should be free with the lance imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some more leaks:

Raiders and Sulphurhounds went to 2W but T4
Sulphur breath is 12" str 4 ap2 now
Phosphor blast pistol has D3 shots
Galvanic carbines gained ap 1
Both gained an attack
Arc maul went to +3 str ap2

Fulgurites went to 2dmg

Also all true, but I'd like them to be balanced that way.
Getting them into melee is naturally harder than just shooting something, but you get an increased payoff for managing that.
Or you could consider Dragoons like offensive missiles, whereas Balistarii are a nice defensive screening unit.

That wound nerf and T buff hurt doggos bad. T4 2W is marine profile - its so common ´with marines and 2D weapons everywhere, they might as well be guardsmen with better movement at that point...

 Thairne wrote:
Also all true, but I'd like them to be balanced that way.
Getting them into melee is naturally harder than just shooting something, but you get an increased payoff for managing that.
Or you could consider Dragoons like offensive missiles, whereas Balistarii are a nice defensive screening unit.

That wound nerf and T buff hurt doggos bad. T4 2W is marine profile - its so common ´with marines and 2D weapons everywhere, they might as well be guardsmen with better movement at that point...

Yeah i mean if the idea is to buff new codexes inline with marine improvements, these are still inferior to marines in every way now. A single volley from just about any non-trash troop weapon will drop an entire squad of 6 of these, whereas you might still have had 3 or 4 left previously.

So far we're a net buff though I think:

Ballistarii buffed
Dragoons buffed
Raiders need to be obsec to be useful now.
Sulphurhounds buffed and are probably worth their points now if they stay the same.

Really could have done with that 3+ WS on both serbyrus units though.

Galvanic Rifles likely to follow suit with -1 AP by default? I don't see why the Carbines would have it and the Rifles not.

Madjob wrote:
Galvanic Rifles likely to follow suit with -1 AP by default? I don't see why the Carbines would have it and the Rifles not.

I'd expect so.

I hope the Sterylizor flamers gets a similarly impressive update like the sulphur breath, it would be pretty dull if it was the same as sulphur, phospor needs something to keep it competitive or i'm gonna be somewhat annoyed. I didn't magnetise my pteraxii or serbyrus because they're too fiddly and tiny. I have a whole load of raiders that are now not as useful as sulphurhounds on the surface and if sterylizors dont have some extra utility on their flamers or somewhere else then sulphurhounds are a better flamer option as well.

competetively it's always rules and points(which change a lot)

fluff wise we are finally getting the better imperial tech we deserve sind our release.

im curious what happens to the neutron laser.

sadly we stay at our main skitarii Stateline it appears. no T4, Ws 3+, ld9. 2 attacks are a possibility though.

The Autocannon buff worries me. That and the Assault change tell me they are trying to break up Mars being good at everything. But it's happening a lot more aggressively than I'd thought...

If that was their goal, they'd just have to make Cawl forgeworld neutral and change the canticle/strat.
That would be the most sensible approach to fix Mars - changing autocannon profiles and all weapons around seems a bit excessive in comparison.
I think they changed it to assault not because of mars, but because they want their identity to be fragile, mobile firepower, a flanking force. And if you can advance and fire the autocannons, you achieved that goal. I mean thats a potential 16" move which would accomplish exactly that.

 Suzuteo wrote:
The Autocannon buff worries me. That and the Assault change tell me they are trying to break up Mars being good at everything. But it's happening a lot more aggressively than I'd thought...

I wouldnt be worried about Mars, this is just to give Cognis weapons their identity and purpose back instead of just being weird heavy weapons that didnt really do anything except on Ballistari, Duneriders and the Fusilave. Changing it to assault means Metalica gets to benefit from it, everyone can fire them in CC without the -1 to hit and we dont have some super ganky ruling that isnt really for 9th edition anymore.

And anyway we dont know if Forgeworld specific Canticles will stay around or be changed. As far as the trends have shown none of the PA content has stayed around when a new 9th ed Codex has came out with that related faction in, except Black Templars? And not all the content is merged into the new Codexes to, for example Space Wolves.

Really I would love all Forgeworlds to get changed, including Mars. Mars shouldnt define the book or what our units are equipped with. All Dogmas should be viable. I reckon the Codex will change quite drastically from what we have now, something akin to Dark Eldar.

The change to cognis is a nice indicator that someone is actually giving us some thought at least. Not just a rehash or tweak like our last codex.

Just a shame our only other cognis weapons are heavy stubbers lol Although...if they went to Assault 4 each thats our horde supression sorted! lol

Hmm did regular marine autocannons get more shots? Cognis lascannons stayed at 1 each.

Also just ocurred to me that sluphur breath on the hounds is now identical to luiquifier guns that Wracks just got in the new Drukharii codex, except in theory ours still ignore cover.

Octovol wrote:
The change to cognis is a nice indicator that someone is actually giving us some thought at least. Not just a rehash or tweak like our last codex.

Just a shame our only other cognis weapons are heavy stubbers lol Although...if they went to Assault 4 each thats our horde supression sorted! lol

Hmm did regular marine autocannons get more shots? Cognis lascannons stayed at 1 each.

Also just ocurred to me that sluphur breath on the hounds is now identical to luiquifier guns that Wracks just got in the new Drukharii codex, except in theory ours still ignore cover.

Weve got cognis flamers too on our kataphron and those stubbers are everywhere so every buff hits us well