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Panic wrote:I also think that i'm going to board up all the windows so that WYSISYG is alot easier...
this will get rid of all the 'i can see him through that window there!'

Board up them windows! There's a storm brewin'!

Funny, this is exactly the sort of thing I was going to ask about.

Boss Salvage and I played a quick game Sunday with a few 5th rules. A question came up as to whether walls were impassible. No biggie, but I am now wondering if 5th does anything to specify about this sort of thing. We sort of came up with house rules that windows can only be shot through if the target or shooter was within 3" of the window, and speculated that perhaps (assuming the basic CoD boxed set buildings) walls could be moved through if they were broken, but intact walls with windows could not. We also thought maybe MC's and units with a Str6 or above model (or grenade) could move through solid walls as well as they blast/kick/use Brother Dave as a battering ram through it.

Is there anything specific in the rules about how buildings and ruins work, or even general suggestions? Or am I going to be writing a short scroll of house rules on the subject?

I think that it Makes DA tanks better. For 130 pts I can get a Vindicator with a dozer blade. I can park it in cover and it will have a 4+ armour save. That is awesome. Also now with big blast marker there are no partials. I think it makes them very hard to kill.

corwindal5 wrote:I think that it Makes DA tanks better. For 130 pts I can get a Vindicator with a dozer blade. I can park it in cover and it will have a 4+ armour save. That is awesome. Also now with big blast marker there are no partials. I think it makes them very hard to kill.

Well, obviously with the new vehicle rules and the new damage chart, vehicles in general will be hard to kill.....they may not shoot alot on the move, but they won't die as much either.....of course, now, they'll be vulnerable to infantry assaults....so I guess it's a wash.

it would be interesting if you gave a vehicle a dozer blade it got +1 to its armor on the charge. so it was 11. but yeah.

I'm glad I didn't sell my vindicators now. machine spirit ftw.

Oh, what did they do with majority toughness or saves? Are those rules still around or did the new wound distribution make them irrelevant?

bigchris1313 wrote:

Panic wrote:I also think that i'm going to board up all the windows so that WYSISYG is alot easier...
this will get rid of all the 'i can see him through that window there!'

Board up them windows! There's a storm brewin'!

but then what do you do when you want to have guys firing out of the building? They can't cause the window's are blocked.

I may have to re-do some of my buildings... Pity, they are so pretty.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Wehrkind wrote:Funny, this is exactly the sort of thing I was going to ask about.

Boss Salvage and I played a quick game Sunday with a few 5th rules. A question came up as to whether walls were impassible. No biggie, but I am now wondering if 5th does anything to specify about this sort of thing. We sort of came up with house rules that windows can only be shot through if the target or shooter was within 3" of the window, and speculated that perhaps (assuming the basic CoD boxed set buildings) walls could be moved through if they were broken, but intact walls with windows could not. We also thought maybe MC's and units with a Str6 or above model (or grenade) could move through solid walls as well as they blast/kick/use Brother Dave as a battering ram through it.

Is there anything specific in the rules about how buildings and ruins work, or even general suggestions? Or am I going to be writing a short scroll of house rules on the subject?

There are actually rather extensive (compared to the last edition which had no rules for buildings) rules for both buildings and ruins. For the most part they follow the rules laid out in Cities of Death with some exceptions.

When it comes to LOS, it is WYSIWYG pretty much all the way, so yeah you can shoot a model through a window regardless of how close to the building he is unless you make house rules to say otherwise.

Aduro wrote:Oh, what did they do with majority toughness or saves? Are those rules still around or did the new wound distribution make them irrelevant?

Majority toughness is still used exactly as it is in 4th edition. Mixed armor is now gone, replaced by allocating wounds to specific models (or groups of models with the same equipment/stats) before armor saves are taken.

Majority toughness is still used exactly as it is in 4th edition. Mixed armor is now gone, replaced by allocating wounds to specific models (or groups of models with the same equipment/stats) before armor saves are taken.

Poo. Continues to screw over Tomb Spiders who make Scarab Swarms.

Aduro wrote:

Majority toughness is still used exactly as it is in 4th edition. Mixed armor is now gone, replaced by allocating wounds to specific models (or groups of models with the same equipment/stats) before armor saves are taken.

Poo. Continues to screw over Tomb Spiders who make Scarab Swarms.

Expect you can allocate them to the swarms first, maybe?

yakface wrote:Majority toughness is still used exactly as it is in 4th edition. Mixed armor is now gone, replaced by allocating wounds to specific models (or groups of models with the same equipment/stats) before armor saves are taken.

That's good to hear. I'd heard otherwise, which would have been a problem for Warlocks hanging out in Wraithguard units.

Thanks Yak. I will have to see the new rules completely before I start my next terrain project. If nothing else, there will be a lot of interior walls surviving in my ruins.

Interesting about majority toughness too. I would have thought they would have just called for Hit allocation instead of wound allocation. That is going to hurt Daemon Armies a little.

ForceVoid wrote:

Aduro wrote:

Majority toughness is still used exactly as it is in 4th edition. Mixed armor is now gone, replaced by allocating wounds to specific models (or groups of models with the same equipment/stats) before armor saves are taken.

Poo. Continues to screw over Tomb Spiders who make Scarab Swarms.

Expect you can allocate them to the swarms first, maybe?

You'd roll to wound on the majority Toughness, which since a Tomb Spider has 2 wounds and a Scarab Swam 3, is the Scarab Swarm with his T3. You could them allocate to the scarabs first, and any hits that do get onto the Tomb Spider still let him take his 3+ save which is an improvement, but still, poo.

Could some body tell me what happens to twinlinked blast weapon? is that count as reroll wound?

Aduro wrote:

ForceVoid wrote:

Aduro wrote:

Majority toughness is still used exactly as it is in 4th edition. Mixed armor is now gone, replaced by allocating wounds to specific models (or groups of models with the same equipment/stats) before armor saves are taken.

Poo. Continues to screw over Tomb Spiders who make Scarab Swarms.

Expect you can allocate them to the swarms first, maybe?

You'd roll to wound on the majority Toughness, which since a Tomb Spider has 2 wounds and a Scarab Swam 3, is the Scarab Swarm with his T3. You could them allocate to the scarabs first, and any hits that do get onto the Tomb Spider still let him take his 3+ save which is an improvement, but still, poo.

Does all this mean that Gun Drones still hurt Crisis Suit units that carry them?

Gun drones haven't hurt crisis suits since the last codex came out. They have the same toughness as the unit that they are attached to.

Gun drones haven't hurt crisis suits since the last codex came out. They have the same toughness as the unit that they are attached to.

Incorrect. Shield Drones use the same toughness as the unit they are attached to. Gun drones (and Marker Drones) do not.

Could some body tell me what happens to twinlinked blast weapon? is that count as reroll wound?

Twin linked blasts re-roll scatter and you have to stick with the second result. Only twin-linked templates (eg immolator flamers) get to re-roll wounds.

I am curious as to what happens to abilities, effects, and wargear that are caused by models that are in transports.

If a model is in a transport...

can the SM Master's Rites of Battle ability be used if the Master is in a transport?

can a Big Mek w/ Kustom Force Field still project his field?

can the Ld of a Canoness w/ Book of St Lucius be used?

... these are just a few examples.

stjohn70 wrote:I am curious as to what happens to abilities, effects, and wargear that are caused by models that are in transports.

If a model is in a transport...

can the SM Master's Rites of Battle ability be used if the Master is in a transport?

can a Big Mek w/ Kustom Force Field still project his field?

can the Ld of a Canoness w/ Book of St Lucius be used?

... these are just a few examples.

Yes, yes and yes. For the KFF and the Book of St. Lucius the range is measured from the hull of the vehicle.


The real question (the one not answered in the new rules) is what happens when those same units in the vehicle should be affected by abilities, like Fear of the Darkness.

Someone told me you can always move and fire "assault" weapons on vehicles. Is this true?

No.

Had another look at the book this weekend, and I noticed another interesting minor change: Vehicles that deep-strike count as moving at cruising speed. As a result, at least until the new codex, a SM Landspeeder can Deep-Strike, and fire one weapon.

I'm picturing the use of Deep-striking speeders with multi-meltas... A relatively cheap way to take out heavy armor.

Aduro wrote:

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:Wait, so Necrons need to take anti-tank weapons to kill tanks in 5th?
CK

Which is all fine and dandy if you're able to take an anti-tank weapon in any given troop slot choice, but no, Necrons have only two anti-tank gun in the entire army which are both Heavy slots. Let a Warrior unit upgrade one of it's guys to carry a Gauss Cannon or Heavy Gauss Cannon and I won't mind so much. Give Flayed One's claws the effects of a Krak Grenade would also be a nice move.

That doesnt really cut it as a legitimate moan as thats the same possition that Tau are in unless you want to count the marker light. And, unless I am mistaken the Gauss rule is not removed until an FAQ says so?

I have a follow up question, I asked it several pages ago but it wasn't answered.

How is the "outflank" rule worded? Can a unit that has scouts/infiltrate always use this rule, or does the mission have to actually have the "reserves" special rule?

So which CD units get fleet? lol it sounds awsome cant wait to get my hands on the book ^^

WhiteDevil wrote:I have a follow up question, I asked it several pages ago but it wasn't answered.

How is the "outflank" rule worded? Can a unit that has scouts/infiltrate always use this rule, or does the mission have to actually have the "reserves" special rule?

Yes, you can use it any of the "standard" 3 missions in the rulebook. In fact the missions in the rulebook all have Reserves (at the players discretion), Infiltration and Deep Strike all the time.

drdeath666 wrote:So which CD units get fleet? lol it sounds awsome cant wait to get my hands on the book ^^

CD units? Chaos Demons?

All infantry, monstrous creatures, cavalry and walkers can 'run' instead of shooting, but they can't charge in the same turn. Units that are "fleet" (have the rule in their codex entry) are allowed to charge in the same turn they ran.

So any unit that currently has the fleet special rule can run in the shooting phase and then charge in the assault phase (exactly what they can do now).

Does Cav automatically have fleet still?

Guys, a few replies back I read someone say Majority toughness was the same as in 4e.

This is not so.

You still use the majority Toughness when there is majorty, but they have have changed the rule when there is no majority (equal numbers of models of different Toughness).

It used to be "use the lowest T" if there is no majority, thus allowing TombSpiders to be wounded as though they are T3 (Scarab swarm toughness). Now its "highest Toughess" when there is no majority. So that 1st Scarab Swarm is now wounded on the Tomb spider toughness, until a second swarm comes out to make T3 the majority in the unit.

Alas, Tomb Spiders only have 2 wounds to the Scarab Swarm's 3.

Aduro wrote:Alas, Tomb Spiders only have 2 wounds to the Scarab Swarm's 3.

I don't understand how the models number of wounds has anything to do with the majority toughness rule mechanic?