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Although, the very fact that we are up to page 14 on this thread now, is because they are not breaking new ground but are pandering to an existing player base who want something similar to GWs range, of comparable quality but for a much lower price. How much interest do we see in other games which are breaking new ground, or are trying new angles with something? With a few exceptions (Maliflux, Infinity and the like) the landscape is littered with the gravestones of failed miniature and game companies. Scroll down about 3 miles on this forum and you can find the pages that deal with those other games. And even those latter successes I have mentioned have a criminally small player base in light of the gaming experience they provide.

My hope is, after they have established themselves in the market, they will start doing something more original. As it stands (and this doesn't surprise me considering they are populated by a lot of ex-GW men) they are making some very clever marketing decisions - they have seen where GW has fallen short in terms of pricing and even consumer desire (Dwarves in Space etc.) and they are trying to capitalise on that void. The problem it is so difficult to get people to move away, and to make a time and money commitment that is on something other than they already know.

Pacific wrote:Although, the very fact that we are up to page 14 on this thread now, is because they are not breaking new ground but are pandering to an existing player base who want something similar to GWs range, of comparable quality but for a much lower price.

We disagree on what differences are and are not damaging to Mantic's ability to ride GW's bow wave. It's not difficult to think up things that are usable using GW rules while providing new fluff and model concepts - in some cases they'd work even better, despite being more distant in concept. For just one example, a unit of Mantic cervitaur "cavalry" would be easier to transplant into a GW Wood Elf army than a unit of Mantic Wood Elves would be. The former is obviously meant to be a different race allied with the elves and any differences in style could be explained away by that, but the latter has two types of elves with vastly different physiologies.

That, to me, is the sweet spot: things that are similar enough to be useful to GW fans (and to allow use of GW models in KoW/Warpath for counts-as), but different enough that they're worth making in plastic in the first place.

Ugh. Just saw the concept art for the vehicles. Yeah, I think I'll pass on the whole thing.

You don't like the orx speedster thing?

That's ok but the forgefather thing looks nonsensical. At least GW pretends to have such things as engines and ammo supplies...

agnosto wrote:That's ok but the forgefather thing looks nonsensical. At least GW pretends to have such things as engines and ammo supplies...

It's not a vehicle, it's an artillery gun.

So...the fact they call it a "vehicle kit" means it's not a vehicle? It's got tracks no visible method to reach the battlefield...

"WARPATH MONTH
STARTS HERE


The countdown has begun and a whole month of Warpath starts today beginning with…

Marauder Raptor


Hailstorm Cannon

The vehicle kits themselves are plastic resin and at least twice the size of the warmachines you’ll find in Kings of War: a Balefire Catapult on the sprue for instance weighs 20 grams whilst a Raptor weighs 60! The vehicles can be found in the Fate of the Forgestar sci-fi battle set and all of our army deals, alongside the free Heroes and all of the other goodies!"

agnosto wrote:So...the fact they call it a "vehicle kit" means it's not a vehicle? It's got tracks no visible method to reach the battlefield...

"WARPATH MONTH
STARTS HERE


The countdown has begun and a whole month of Warpath starts today beginning with…

Marauder Raptor


Hailstorm Cannon

The vehicle kits themselves are plastic resin and at least twice the size of the warmachines you’ll find in Kings of War: a Balefire Catapult on the sprue for instance weighs 20 grams whilst a Raptor weighs 60! The vehicles can be found in the Fate of the Forgestar sci-fi battle set and all of our army deals, alongside the free Heroes and all of the other goodies!"

Just received this newsletter in my email.

I will wait for pics of the actual minis to be released but, based on the uninspired artwork, I am disappointed.

At the moment I may as well dust off a Thunderfire/Quadcannon or two and some Squat Trikes ( is there really no other form of transport available to dwarves in space, in any universe, other than Reliant Robins?)

Mr. Burning wrote:At the moment I may as well dust off a Thunderfire/Quadcannon or two and some Squat Trikes ( is there really no other form of transport available to dwarves in space, in any universe, other than Reliant Robins?)

The trike is for the Marauders, not the Forgefathers.

AlexHolker wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:At the moment I may as well dust off a Thunderfire/Quadcannon or two and some Squat Trikes ( is there really no other form of transport available to dwarves in space, in any universe, other than Reliant Robins?)

The trike is for the Marauders, not the Forgefathers.

Ah! my mistake, Orx on bikes huh?

I like what they have shown of the Marauders. If the detail on what has been previewed is as they look in the flesh I may get some for the cabinet.

Maybe I am wrong to want something different?

For some reason everyone talks about the new mantic pics but noone posts them. Weird.

Here they are:

Marauder "Raptor"
The vehicle kits themselves are plastic resin and at least twice the size of the warmachines you’ll find in Kings of War: a Balefire Catapult on the sprue for instance weighs 20 grams whilst a Raptor weighs 60!

Preview pic of a new Forgefather:

Well.....at least we'll have some more modern ork warbuggies

The bogie looks very nice.

Yeah, the ork warbuggy kit hasn't been updated in nearly 15 years.

This will at least give ork players another option to play with.

I really, really do not understand the comment about "no engines" when there is quite clearly a massive engine, exposed and visible at the front of the raptor.

mmmm.... Thudd Guns....

That Looks Really Cool

If the buggy were real plastic I would buy a dozen (for my Orks, of course). Resin? No, thanks.

Even though I dislike the Warpath rules I was excited about it because I hoped Mantic would go up against GW in the one field where nobody has ever challenged them - large, plastic vehicle kits. Oh well.

I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

Except that it doesn't hold detail as well, it's heavier, it can't be assembled with polysterene cement, it's harder to convert, and you don't get as many options as are provided in a plastic kit.

Does anyone know what's going on with Mantic's last naming contest, for the dwarf riders? Have they declared a winner yet?

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

It's twice as expensive.

AlexHolker wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

It's twice as expensive.

Not to start up thats for sure. They probably dont have any faith in full plastic vehicles to constitute for its initial investment.

kenshin620 wrote:Not to start up thats for sure. They probably dont have any faith in full plastic vehicles to constitute for its initial investment.

That's not really a compelling argument from the consumer's point of view. That Mantic is only doing a halfassed job of their sci-fi line, with only ~8 men worth of sprues between two armies, is part of the problem.

Tailgunner wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:I believe they are plastic resin. PP uses Plastic Resin and there stuff has no disadvantages to plastic that i have noticed.

Except that it doesn't hold detail as well, it's heavier, it can't be assembled with polysterene cement, it's harder to convert, and you don't get as many options as are provided in a plastic kit.

- I own some mantic revenant cavalry that would disgree with that statement. There are undercuts.

- True. I'm not a fan of superglue, so I'm using 2-part epoxy on it. Kinda overkill, but I like to make damn sure that my models stay together!

- Haven't cut anything, but it seems to be just like plastic... I mean, sure you'll need a saw to cut through large pieces rather than a knife, but that's about the only difference, easier than metal or resin, for sure.

- Mantic's plastics don't come with a great deal of options anyway, it's no loss. That said, their wraith kit does come with optional extra arms and things.

- As for pricing, we do not know what these vehicles are going to cost at this point in time. Mantic's resin plastic pricing is all over the place. You can get gore riders for £2/ model, but the Forgefather heavy weapons seem to be about £2.40/model. Things could go either way with the vehicles at this point.

- Other issues are mould release (warm soapy water is standard treatment for all my models, regardless of material) and warping on long thin stuff like lances that needs a little work.

It's a mixed bag, but overall better than metal. Once the models are cleaned up and put together, they feel just like plastic, in terms of durability, weight and overall "feel". To me it's the end result that matters.. I don't want my models to break or the paint to chip, and resin plastic holds up a lot better than either metal or resin in that regard.

The "we can't afford to make these in plastic" is in fact a valid argument, because if nobody buys them, then it's a loss for the company which then goes bankrupt.

Mantic are playing a balancing act. It is well aware that people like the people in this thread who would buy plastic, but never even consider resin plastic exist, but the fact of the matter is, they are not numerous enough to justify making a product for.

If you don't believe me, try running the numbers on making your own fantastic vehicle kit.. pay a concept artist to come up with a great design, pay a sculptor to sculpt it, pay renedra $50k+ for the mould, then attempt to distribute and sell it at a low, low price.

Once you run the maths on that, you begin to realise that you would need to sell 10k+ kits before you start making profit. Even GW does not have the sales volumes to justify making everything in plastic, so Mantic (as a company that is about a thousand times smaller) has a much harder time making back the initial investment.

Everyone on the internet is an "armchair miniatures company CEO" (something I've been guilty of myself, I hasten to add), but when it comes down to it, if they were put in charge of a company, it would probably go bankrupt as they get into massive amount of debt to fund what they, as a wargamer, would like to see, but there simply isn't enough consumer demand for.

The company is simply too young and not well-established enough to be able to make everything in plastic.

If that's not what you want, then that's not what you want, no amount of ranting is going to change the laws of physics or overall consumer demand.

I personally choose to make the decision of supporting mantic with my wallet, because I realise that hard cash is what will eventually make them produce the models I want to see, not internet rants.

Good point Scarletsquig. Indeed, very good point.

So, my oppinions are: the Raptor dont look orkish. It may look orxish. Perhaps, that is a great, because anyone can take one and use anywhere. Do you want a fast looking vehicle? Take it. If you want it for your orkz, you will have a great fun making it a "direct from scrapyard", with some plastic card. If you dont like converting, stick with those ugly and expensive GW models

The FF cannon look nice, it would work very well to replace a Manticore or one of those "flak cannons" of IG. Look exactly like what it is: a piece of artilery that can be handled by one person. Expect to see some of them around IG armies...

Anyway, before i see the disambled kits i could not say how i like them. If they are multi-small-parts, them i will be very happy, if they are multi-big-parts, i can not be interested.

PS: resin tipically glue very well with super glue, witch is cheaper than cement glue (and is sold in any supermarket). So, a big kit made of resin have an additional advantage, it is easier to glue...

Full unit of Forge Fathers on Balls:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/09/exclusive-warpath-forgefather-unit.html

I like the sculpts, but I hope there aren't really only 2 poses for the grunts.

They painted the studio minis ultramarine? Seriously?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:They painted the studio minis ultramarine? Seriously?

It is the universal color of mediocrity.

ntin wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:They painted the studio minis ultramarine? Seriously?

It is the universal color of mediocrity.

the only thing lamer than Ultramarines are dwarves in space...

Bad call on the colour palette, it only reinforces the notion that Mantic is selling vertically challenged space marines. Heh.