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Since we're dropping Cirillo's cool concept work, do guys mind if I drop some stuff?

I own 15 crisis suits.... if GW redid them to look like that... I would buy another 15

Sleek, I think that is what I like about that concept art. Less boxy, more streamlined. I like.

Mmm, yes please.

Didn't the original rumors say that the crisis suits were being redone to look a little less boxy? If so, hopefully they turn out like that concept art... The second drawing in particular...

chaos0xomega wrote:I own 15 crisis suits.... if GW redid them to look like that... I would buy another 15

At £15 each?

I would love to have my Crisis Suits look Gundam-ish.

Kilkrazy wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I own 15 crisis suits.... if GW redid them to look like that... I would buy another 15

At £15 each?

Psh pound sterling? Please, I'm an American, I use a real currency ;P

I'd obviously purchase them at some sort of discount, i'm a frugal warhammer-er

SabrX wrote:I would love to have my Crisis Suits look Gundam-ish.

That would guarantee GW gets none of my money.

Cirillo's designs are awesome. No reason to toss them out the window and turn the crisis suits into leggy robot samurai. Because if you want Gundam suits, buy kits from Bandai. GW will never produce plastic models of the quality Bandai does at a reasonable price. GW would be better off trying to make the Tau the best possible interpretation of their own unique designs than trying to copy another company's IP, especially when that IP's presence in western markets was a fad that ceased being popular long ago and now has only niche appeal.

Where are those suit pics coming from?!?

JOHIRA wrote:IP's presence in western markets was a fad that ceased being popular long ago and now has only niche appeal.

Really now?
The Tau are still a rarther popular army in 40k in large part attribute to their obviously anime-gundam designs and Japanese influence. It's hardly niche when GW made an entire army and made it popular based on a "fad".

jspyd3rx wrote:Where are those suit pics coming from?!?

Due to fencing making me stay after in school (from 2:35 to 7:00), I decided to scour through Advanced Tau Tactica (the last of the unblocked 40k forums on my school computers) for some interesting articles and discussions to eat at my time until practice began.

And low and behold the gem of an article I found in their resource articles section! http://advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=17717

Absolutionis wrote:[their obviously anime-gundam designs

Yeah, there actually isn't any of this. Have you ever actually looked at a mobile suit Gundam design? The robots look absolutely unlike anything the Tau get. Completely different designs.

JOHIRA wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:[their obviously anime-gundam designs

Yeah, there actually isn't any of this. Have you ever actually looked at a mobile suit Gundam design? The robots look absolutely unlike anything the Tau get. Completely different designs.

Except it is everything of what he said. It is no secret that the Tau were modeled after anime-esk designs. I'm fairly certain they had a press conference were they even admitted that was their inspiration.
Now the current crisis suits are pretty damn Gundam like. Maybe not the Gundams of the main characters, but similar to the mass produced models. Though I have to say that if the designs follow any true pattern they look
a lot more like "Armored Core" models, specifically that concept art posted. And in the long run Armored Core is just anime in game form. I honestly think GW should embrace it a lot more in their model making for the Tau, because it's
obvious that they're the selling ideas. Especially with anime getting deeper and deeper into Western Society and extremely popular with the younger generation.

Tbh when I look at those concept sketches, what I see are xv-9's, or atleast major parts of them. Especially the heads and knees are exactly the same as those used on the xv-9 suits.
While I hope new crisis suits look more like these concepts, there is a big chance these formed the basis for the xv-9 suits and not any redesign of crisis suits. Guess we just have to wait and see.

Still good looking tho

MoD_Legion wrote:Tbh when I look at those concept sketches, what I see are xv-9's, or atleast major parts of them. Especially the heads and knees are exactly the same as those used on the xv-9 suits.
While I hope new crisis suits look more like these concepts, there is a big chance these formed the basis for the xv-9 suits and not any redesign of crisis suits. Guess we just have to wait and see.

I mostly see XV9 in concept image 2 and 4, but I can sorta agree that the others sorta look like 'em.

Dantalian wrote:
Except it is everything of what he said. It is no secret that the Tau were modeled after anime-esk designs. I'm fairly certain they had a press conference were they even admitted that was their inspiration.

Anime is not a design. Anime is not an art style. Anime is not a genre. Anime is a medium. All anime is is animation from Japan. Even in the sub-genre of mecha anime, there is no consistent look. If anyone at GW ever claimed the Tau to be anime-esk, that just shows they didn't do their research and don't know what they're talking about. The statement is so empty, it would be equivalent to saying their next army will look like an oil painting.

Incidentally, the fan community has collectively made up a bunch of myths about the Tau. Another one that everyone seems to be absolutely convinced is true without there being any evidence to support it is that the Tau were a strategy of GW's to get into the Japanese market.

Now the current crisis suits are pretty damn Gundam like. Maybe not the Gundams of the main characters, but similar to the mass produced models. Though I have to say that if the designs follow any true pattern they look
a lot more like "Armored Core" models, specifically that concept art posted.

You're going to have to show me an example of exactly what you mean, because I don't know of any Gundam that remotely resembles crisis suits. And to say they look like Armored Core is especially baffling to me, because AC mecha are an entirely different design. I know they are both from Asia, but that doesn't mean they all look the same.

And in the long run Armored Core is just anime in game form.

So is Final Fantasy. So is Bomberman. That doesn't mean the Tau look like either of those. Anime != Gundam != Tau.

JOHIRA, are you really saying that Tau are not influenced by a Western take on Japanese fighting-robot animation? Really?

Manchu wrote:JOHIRA, are you really saying that Tau are not influenced by a Western take on Japanese fighting-robot animation? Really?

No, I'm not. I'm saying the Tau look nothing like Gundams, and that I would not buy them if they did look like Gundams and I think encouraging GW to make them look more like Gundams is bad for GW's business.

As for your claim that that Tau are influenced by a Western take on Japanese fighting-robot animation, I disagree with it to a lesser extent because "Japanese fighting-robot animation" is a broad genre with no single visual style. But at least it's more accurate than to say they look like Gundams.

I think he's saying that there's influence, but that doesn't mean much, as Japanese fighting-robot animation is actually a pretty massive genre.

But that's just my take.

In general, the 'major' subdivisions are "Real Robot" and "Super Robot." As a guideline, if there's mass-production of mecha, it's Real Robot. (Personally, I get confused as Gundam series seem to have a lot of 'Super Robot' unique one-of-a-kind prototypes out there.) 40k Dreadnoughts could be considered to partake in this genre as well, really.

He's not saying they haven't been influenced by anime. What he's saying is that you can't just say that Tau=anime=gundam=AC=Japanese robots.

EDIT: Oof, ninja'd by Balance. I agree with you.

Your "real" vs "super" distinction is interesting. I never realized that before.

Well, it is obvious that Mechas are popular in Japan, look quite similar to each other and to Tau battlesuits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecha

The original tau painting scheme copied the Japanese army scheme from WW2, the long time isolation, the god-like leader, the lack of shown emotions, the lack of individualism, the rapid technological advance are all nods to Japanese history and culture.

Wow.

Okay, so who else here is surprised that anime has significantly NOTHING to do with the Tau design?

Manchu wrote:Wow.

Okay, so who else here is surprised that anime has significantly NOTHING to do with the Tau design?

That's not what he said. He said you can't equivocate tau with anime and simply take anything from anime and call it Tau.

EDIT:

Kroothawk wrote:Well, it is obvious that Mechas are popular in Japan, look quite similar to each other and to Tau battlesuits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecha

The original tau painting scheme copied the Japanese army scheme from WW2, the long time isolation, the god-like leader, the lack of shown emotions, the lack of individualism, the rapid technological advance are all nods to Japanese history and culture.

That is really insightful.... I hadn't realized that, either. I need to think more often...

Sentinel wrote:He said you can't equivocate tau with anime and simply take anything from anime and call it Tau.

I don't think anyone was talking about taking anything anime but rather Gunduam-esque designs. Now, I'm not a Gundam/anime-nut but it doesn't seem nearly as implausible as JOHIRA is saying that GW took design cues from what, from a Western perspective, is actually more of a genre than a medium.

Kroothawk wrote:Well, it is obvious that Mechas are popular in Japan, look quite similar to each other and to Tau battlesuits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecha

I don't agree it is obvious at all. Here are some mecha examples:
Gundam, Macross, Evangelion, RaXephon, Sakura Wars, Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, Votoms, and Armored Core, just to show a few.

While there might be some common design elements between one or two of those robots, overall it strains credibility to say they look quite similar to each other, or that they even look like each other at all. And absolutely none of them look like a crisis suit. Hell, we may as well start calling Ork Defdreds a take-off of Sakura Wars if we're going to apply the tenuous reasoning shown by the Tau = Gundams crowd.

the god-like leader,

The Tau do not have a god-like leader, and while the Japanese emperors have been said to be descended from a goddess, it takes a pretty superficial reading of Japanese history to say that they were God-like either.

the lack of shown emotions,

Where does it say in the fluff that Tau don't show emotions?

And incidentally, anyone who has lived in Japan for any length of time will tell you that Japanese people show emotions all the time.

the lack of individualism,

Where does it say the Tau lack individualism?

And that's a pretty racist claim to make about the Japanese to boot.

I do recall hearing that someone involved in the visual design of the Fire Caste Warrior armour did say that it was a nod to Japanese ashigaru, though personally I think that's even superficial in that all they really have in common is baggy pants with folds in them.

But with this Tau/Japan connection, I think what's actually happening is that the Tau were designed to be exotic. They are supposed to look like they come from a completely different culture. And so what you are seeing is not an actual connection to actual Japan, but rather a connection to the exoticised stereotype westerners who know little of Japan often think represents "the mysterious orient" (said with my eyes rolled firmly into the back of my head.) It's possible that someone at GW thought they were being inspired by Japan when they designed the Tau, but the inspiration is shallow. Kinda like a couple years back when someone had a project they wanted to recruit a voice-actor to speak for Tau in some video game, and the ad specified they wanted an actor who could do "an Asian accent".

Saying that the Tau were a strategy for getting Japanese people to buy minis is about as absurd and insulting as saying that Necrons were a strategy to get Egyptians to buy minis. I think GW has made some pretty bone-headed decisions lately, but even I wouldn't say they are that stupid.

It's clear that the Tau were designed from oriental inspirations of a mix of Japanese and Chinese sources.

The original design articles on the GW web site said it specifically.

They didn't talk about anime/Gundam as such.

The theme music for Tau in Dark Crusade was definitely influenced by Japanese music or some kind of racist Western caricature of Japanese music.

The Japanese are a primarily Collectivistic culture rather than an Individualistic. if you think this is a racist comment I'd be glad to put you in touch with my Fiance to discuss it. She's the lecturer in Cross-Cultural Psych at one of the universities in town this winter term. She also happens to have been born in Osaka, Japan.

There are definitely a number of Asian influences on the Tau. Mecha are but a part of it.

They are a rising power in the east.

Collectivist culture.

Their leaders are revered and have an origin story tied into the skies (remember in the Tau language Aun can translate as Celestial instead of Ethereal).

They have a caste culture.

With these things we can see ties to China, India and Japan.

The also apparently have problems with their eye sight (a common slur against Japanese around World War 2 and Chnese in the Korean War) and are slightly smaller than an average human (again smaller size is a common trait attributed to Asians - though this is changing).


So while I wouldn't call them exclusively based off the Japanese, their cultural and design elements do reflect a sampling of Asian cultures and stereotypes.