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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Jefffar wrote:The Japanese are a primarily Collectivistic culture rather than an Individualistic.
That binary is, I daresay, rather Western. I'd recommend this book to your fiancee: http://www.amazon.com/Soil-Foundations-translation-Xiaotongs-Zhongguo/dp/0520077962

   
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Runnin up on ya.

Jefffar wrote:The Japanese are a primarily Collectivistic culture rather than an Individualistic. if you think this is a racist comment I'd be glad to put you in touch with my Fiance to discuss it. She's the lecturer in Cross-Cultural Psych at one of the universities in town this winter term. She also happens to have been born in Osaka, Japan.

There are definitely a number of Asian influences on the Tau. Mecha are but a part of it.

They are a rising power in the east.

Collectivist culture.

Their leaders are revered and have an origin story tied into the skies (remember in the Tau language Aun can translate as Celestial instead of Ethereal).

They have a caste culture.

With these things we can see ties to China, India and Japan.

The also apparently have problems with their eye sight (a common slur against Japanese around World War 2 and Chnese in the Korean War) and are slightly smaller than an average human (again smaller size is a common trait attributed to Asians - though this is changing).


So while I wouldn't call them exclusively based off the Japanese, their cultural and design elements do reflect a sampling of Asian cultures and stereotypes.



You can also corrolate most of that with Western equivalents instead of using a broad brush to stereotype individuals.
Western culture has/had the following:
Rising powers...the sun never sets on the British Empire.
Communism.
Heavenly mandate rulers....Roman Empire all the way down to the British Monarchy and the Pope.
Europe did castes too, that entire period known as the Middle Ages.
Western culture has a problem with weight so I guess Sumo is Western.


Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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I wanna go back to New Jersey

Manchu wrote:The theme music for Tau in Dark Crusade was definitely influenced by Japanese music or some kind of racist Western caricature of Japanese music.

It sounded rather Chinese to me.

*Aside*
Hold a tick, I'm seeing some key words here. "Communism", "Anime", "Japan", "Culture"? I've seen enough Tau threads to know where this is going

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/20 01:10:01


bonbaonbardlements 
   
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Fairbanks, Alaska

JOHIRA wrote:
You can also corrolate most of that with Western equivalents instead of using a broad brush to stereotype individuals.
Western culture has/had the following:
Rising powers...the sun never sets on the British Empire.
Communism.
Heavenly mandate rulers....Roman Empire all the way down to the British Monarchy and the Pope.
Europe did castes too, that entire period known as the Middle Ages.
Western culture has a problem with weight so I guess Sumo is Western.


Don't forget us Americans and our Manifest Destiny back in the 19th century.

JOHIRA wrote:
Saying that the Tau were a strategy for getting Japanese people to buy minis is about as absurd and insulting as saying that Necrons were a strategy to get Egyptians to buy minis. I think GW has made some pretty bone-headed decisions lately, but even I wouldn't say they are that stupid.


What? No one has ever said this, in fact it was the opposite of your claim. Everyone is saying that the Oriental design of Tau is to make them sell better in the WEST, not the opposite. Unless you can back up your claim that we said this.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/20 01:47:28


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DFW area Texas - Rarely

What a fascinating and quite subjective study on the various artistic, cultural and historical influences which have inspired games workshop.

Sincerely, it is indeed fascinating stuff and interesting to see where different perspectives can either group influences or separate them with specificity where a handful of individuals has a significant passion about debating it.

However, can this either move the debate to another thread (or move this thread) and do we have new tau rumors?

As a competitive tau player (yes, I know, its an oxymoron) I would like to know about any news for my beloved Tau...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/20 06:01:46


DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
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Brisbane Aust

I think you need to view Tau in context of the 40K universe, they are the most "anime" race of all the 40k races. And I think anime used in this context is anything with obvious giant mecha style battlesuits, i.e. gundam, macross or even armoured core.
Anime is used in the same way we would describe imperial styling as gothic it is not specific whether its french gothic or german gothic or even a specific artists gothic, but it is still gothic.

 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







I posted this in 40k release schedule, but I copy the relevant parts here as well:
stickmonkey wrote:My sources are giving me the following general timelines of codex releases

2012
Q1/2 - tau (or flipped w BT)
Q2/3 - BT ( possible WD codex)
Q3 - 6 Ed
Q3/4 - eldar
(...)

StraightSilver wrote:Tau in Q1 is a very big possibility. I had been told that Tau have had new models ready since June 2011 by somebody who has (allegedly) seen them. I was under the impression they would get a wave release with a WD update but this seems to have been canned in favour of a Codex. From June to Q1 is enough time to develop a Dex so that's certainly possible.
(...)
That's the problem, it's not unheard of for GW to have models ready for months / years and still sit on them, so Tau could be Q1 or not even next year.

Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
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interesting that there is no mention of chaos in that timeline...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/20 13:17:55


insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

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Yeah, I wonder what's holding chaos back if that's true.

Not really shocked at the idea that models are done. When you remember that a lot of work probably goes into producing the sample models and designing boxes and getting new trademarks, etc etc, it's not hard to imagine that the models need to be done pretty far in advance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/20 13:31:42


 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







BarBoBot wrote:interesting that there is no mention of chaos in that timeline...

I edited it out, see other thread.

Anyway, hope the following rumour is not true:
StraightSilver wrote:From what I have heard I wouldn't get too excited about new Battle and Crisis Suits as they aren't getting new models.
They will have recut sprues with more weapon options but the models themselves will remain the same AFAIK.
However there will definitely be some other brand new Tau models.
(...)
From what I remember being told the suits themselves remain pretty much the same, I was told the sprues had been recut to allow more options.
I am assuming that means weapon options, with the kits going all plastic.
(...)
Well I have to say that this is just what I have heard, someone I know who works at GW was involved in the Tau minis (I can't say in what capacity as it will give the game away) and told me months ago that he had seen the finished models.

However the same source said that Tau would get a minis release without a Codex, with a WD update for some of the new auxillaries.

That now seems very unlikely, so it is also possible he is wrong about the minis, but I do trust him, he's normally very reliable and it's possible that since the models were done GW changed their minds and decided to release a Codex after all.

He was adamant that the sprues for the Crisis and battle suits were simply recut to allow for more weapons options and to make the kits all plastc, but that was apparently all that had changed.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/20 18:54:26


Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The existing Crisis suits are still pretty damn cool. It wouldn't be terrible not to have what's already out completely outmoded.

   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Switched to 100% FW Suits long ago, because I don't like the standard suits.

Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
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Underneath your painting desk

I wouldn't be too averse to keeping the current suits. If the recut he mentions means that broadsides will be an option buildable from the crisis kit, I would welcome that change just as much as a redone suit.

FW are infinitely better, but XV8s are still good enough for me. I can only imagine though how many more suits they would sell if they redid the design to be more XV9ish.

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Solahma






RVA

XV9s are beautiful, no argument here.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2130364a_Blog201211_9_XL.jpg

But I still love the XV8s. They have a blocky '80s feel that appeals to my inner-Transformers fan.

   
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St. Louis, Missouri

I'm with Manchu. I love the current XV8s, and hope they don't change that much...But, I also really like the XV9s

The only thing I don't like are the GW Broadsides...All my 'sides are Forge World

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I like the sense that the tau technology is evolving. I'm fine if it doesn't change drastically though, since then I can be happy with visual advancement of tech, but other people can be happy because they still have boxy suits.

Just maybe, a tiny bit less boxy each time to show the advancement.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/20 20:27:36


 
   
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Solahma






RVA

@Rented Tritium: It'd really be cool to see an all-XV8 O'Shovah-led force on a table in an era where everyone else was using XV9 models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/20 20:30:10


   
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St. Louis, Missouri

Manchu wrote:@Rented Tritium: It'd really be cool to see an all-XV8 O'Shovah-led force on a table in an era where everyone else was using XV9 models.

Similar to Zaku Is and Zaku IIs in Mobile Suit Gundam?

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I wonder if anyone have seen this.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/64983952/Demiurg

Nice weapon against MEQ.


And a elite choice for the TAU.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/20 21:22:53



 
   
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Palm Beach, FL

Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?
   
Made in us
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Solahma






RVA

Demiurg = Mondoshawans? LOL

   
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MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?


Yes you are right. Sorry all games and their supplements are made in a top secret vault and only Santa knows where its at. Also, Steve Jackson has no clue on how to design games.


 
   
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thevirus wrote:
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?


Yes you are right. Sorry all games and their supplements are made in a top secret vault and only Santa knows where its at. Also, Steve Jackson has no clue on how to design games.


This thread is for posting rumors about actual games workshop material. What you posted appears to just be fanmade content. There are a dozen fan codexes down in the forum for that.

Unless I'm wrong and that really is a leaked playtest codex or something, but it really didn't give me that impression.
   
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The Great State of New Jersey

its a fan document, thevirus just thinks its legit stuff...

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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Palm Beach, FL

thevirus wrote:
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thevirus, why should anyone care about a homemade document?


Yes you are right. Sorry all games and their supplements are made in a top secret vault and only Santa knows where its at. Also, Steve Jackson has no clue on how to design games.


If you're under the impression that the person who made those documents is in any way connected to the GW design studio, you're going to be disappointed. And I have no idea why you brought up Steve Jackson?
   
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I dont really see how that recut is supposed to work, the only thing that isnt in plastic for the current codex suits are the experimental weapons from the commander kit and the broadside weapons, all which arent really options for the normal xv8's (as the you can only take 1 of each experimental weapon per list, unless this is getting changed). But then again, most of the experimental weapons arent that good though.

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MoD_Legion wrote:I dont really see how that recut is supposed to work, the only thing that isnt in plastic for the current codex suits are the experimental weapons from the commander kit and the broadside weapons, all which arent really options for the normal xv8's (as the you can only take 1 of each experimental weapon per list, unless this is getting changed). But then again, most of the experimental weapons arent that good though.


Also keep in mind that the experimental weapon system is likely to change as 1+ and 0-1 distinctions on units/wargear is largely a thing of the past.

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also rumors say current spec issue are going mainstream and new spec issue is coming in

Also, in regards to the morphic weapons, I recalled earlier today a rumor I read years and years ago, IIRC supposedly it came out of a convo at a GD with one of the designers, but basically it was a discussion about how the design team had designed a bunch of additional special issue weapons that were cut from final print because they were designed to target specific enemies. A given example was a flamer template weapon that wounded nids on a rerollable 2+ no saves but on everyone else it was s2ap- or something like that. The rumor was that the design team felt that these weapons should be included in a future iteration of the codex to represent the Tau's ability to adapt to specific threats, but as a single catch-all system that had a different profile, etc. depending on the opponents army. Maybe this is what the morphic weaps refers to?

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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IL

I can see why they'd recut the sprue, the curent dated sprue does not allow you to field any of the twin linked/ dual weapon load outs which are pretty standard for Tau.

That means you have to augment parts from other suits or buy from bits sellers. In a way it'd be like GW selling standard terminator squads without enough stormbolters to equip the full unit.

I'd really like to see an updated FW styled suit done in plastic as the old design is so dated and is very non-dynamic. The legs are totally straight and hang down like somebody shoved a flag pole up it's backside, there's not even a lower torso that can rotate. The arms are fixed at 90 degrees so there's practically no range of motion. Basic infantry from almost every faction are far more poseable than the current crisis suit.

I like robots which is why I always liked Tau, but the old suit has to go it's just too static and blocky. They can keep the overall design so it matches the codex art, but maybe a slight revamp in detail and it desperately needs to be made more articulated. (along with the proper assortment of weapons)


Oh and in regard to the gundam subject, yes they have some simular design elements cheifly in the torso construction. I have swaped out the torso of several crisis suits with several 1/200 scale gundam kits. After the modification they look much closer to the Crillio concept art. Gundam has some samurai elements which show up slightly in the armor panel lines, but when you look at the core of the torso you can see where Tau designs drew some heavy influence from.

Besides when has GW EVER made a model that isn't "borrowing" design elements from another popular setting?








The Tau XV-8 suit has almost all the same lines as the upper torso on the Gundam-78, but it's nowhere near as pretty....

Spoiler:







This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2011/12/21 07:35:15


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There is a rumor going around that GW released the Tau in an attempt to attract Japanese customers to their products overseas. Whether this is true or not is beyond me.

   
 
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